Willco. I'm working up some thoughts here, but they're too speculative at the moment.
Thanks re your comment on the essay presentation, and I look forward to your views on the content.
Time Explained
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Willco. I'm working up some thoughts here, but they're too speculative at the moment.
Thanks re your comment on the essay presentation, and I look forward to your views on the content.
Digging deep into the bowels of your over-active imagination won't preclude the necessity for you to learn something about what it is you're talking about.
It's still all fiction, so far. Busted fiction.
Here's an interesting snippet from that book A World Without Time:
In his response to Godel's paper in the Schilpp volume, Einstein acknowledged that "the problem here disturbed me at the time of the building up of the general theory of relativity." This problem he described as follows: "Is what remains of temporal connection between world-points in the theory of relativity an asymettrical relation (like time, intuitively understood, and unlike space), or would one be just as much justified to assert A is before P as to assert that A is after P? The issue could also be put this way: is relativistic space-time in essense a space or a time."
In his response to Godel's paper in the Schilpp volume, Einstein acknowledged that "the problem here disturbed me at the time of the building up of the general theory of relativity." This problem he described as follows: "Is what remains of temporal connection between world-points in the theory of relativity an asymettrical relation (like time, intuitively understood, and unlike space), or would one be just as much justified to assert A is before P as to assert that A is after P? The issue could also be put this way: is relativistic space-time in essense a space or a time."
ShadmiDoron
Registered Member
We can think about at least two extremes where Space/Time cannot be measured:
Extreme 1: In total symmetry there is no space (0 value of space) to be measured because there is one and only one realm which is based on a perfect timing that its value is 1.
Extreme 2: In a total broken symmetry there is no time (0 value of timing) because each broken state is totally disjoint from any other broken state (the disjoint value is 1 and we get a space with no timing).
Our realm is the association between these extremes, so Time and Space are actually complementary relations between symmetry and broken symmetry.
Extreme 1: In total symmetry there is no space (0 value of space) to be measured because there is one and only one realm which is based on a perfect timing that its value is 1.
Extreme 2: In a total broken symmetry there is no time (0 value of timing) because each broken state is totally disjoint from any other broken state (the disjoint value is 1 and we get a space with no timing).
Our realm is the association between these extremes, so Time and Space are actually complementary relations between symmetry and broken symmetry.
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What, pray tell, is this gibberish? Once again you are not defining your terms. What do you mean by the terms 'total symmetry' (among what??) and 'total broken symmetry'? Do you know about Noether's Theorem?
ShadmiDoron
Registered Member
Yes I know Noether's theorem, which lets physicists get conserved quantities from symmetries of the laws of nature.
I take one step beyond it and talking about two extremes that cannot be measured in our reality, because our reality is not less than the complementary relations between them.
These two extremes are:
1) Total timing (or total symmetry) where no space exists, and all we have is a perfect oneness that is not "a one of many…" realm.
2) Total no-timing (or total broken symmetry) where no time exists, and all we have is infinitely many disjoint realms, where each realm is totally disconnected from any other realm.
Our realm is not less than complementary relations between these extremes, which produce a weaker version of them that can be combined into what is called Space/Time realm, which we are a part of it.
Connectivity or integration is the property that is recognized by us as time or correlation among different entities.
A time-line of some universe is the most connected state where no discrete phenomenon exists and all we have is a smooth connectivity without space (no measured place).
Non-connectivity or differentiation is the property that is recognized by us as space or non-correlation among different entities.
A space of some universe is the most disconnected state where no smooth phenomenon exists and all we have is discreteness without time (timing) or correlation (no measured flow).
Our universe is both time_AND_space and this complementary relation can be found in any researched level within and without us.
For further information, please read:
http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/LPD.pdf
I take one step beyond it and talking about two extremes that cannot be measured in our reality, because our reality is not less than the complementary relations between them.
These two extremes are:
1) Total timing (or total symmetry) where no space exists, and all we have is a perfect oneness that is not "a one of many…" realm.
2) Total no-timing (or total broken symmetry) where no time exists, and all we have is infinitely many disjoint realms, where each realm is totally disconnected from any other realm.
Our realm is not less than complementary relations between these extremes, which produce a weaker version of them that can be combined into what is called Space/Time realm, which we are a part of it.
Connectivity or integration is the property that is recognized by us as time or correlation among different entities.
A time-line of some universe is the most connected state where no discrete phenomenon exists and all we have is a smooth connectivity without space (no measured place).
Non-connectivity or differentiation is the property that is recognized by us as space or non-correlation among different entities.
A space of some universe is the most disconnected state where no smooth phenomenon exists and all we have is discreteness without time (timing) or correlation (no measured flow).
Our universe is both time_AND_space and this complementary relation can be found in any researched level within and without us.
For further information, please read:
http://www.geocities.com/complementarytheory/LPD.pdf
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I got this Idea in my head that matter takes up less space when it is added to other matter than when it is separated which causes motion. I dont know where that came from! I wonder if the shape of the universe is caused by some external or internal pressure, or both, as if the wide lenths have less pressure acting upon them as do the shorter?
The penny drops
After mulling this all over for a while I realized that the optical illusion (Reached via the link provided) that really cuts to the heart of this matter is the one entitled "Motion Induced Blindness."
When you stare at the blinking dot in the center of this illusion the three yellow dots on the periphery disappear. You begin to understand this interpretation of time when you understand that the illusion is not that the dots disappear but that they appear at all. The dots aren't actually there, they only appear when your mind is interpreting the motion of light waves as "yellow". As soon as your mind is distracted, and ceases to do what it does, the dots cease to exist. Not seeing the dots is the reality. Seeing the dots is the illusion.
And so it is with time, its simply an illusion. Thanks for the explanation. Well done.
After mulling this all over for a while I realized that the optical illusion (Reached via the link provided) that really cuts to the heart of this matter is the one entitled "Motion Induced Blindness."
When you stare at the blinking dot in the center of this illusion the three yellow dots on the periphery disappear. You begin to understand this interpretation of time when you understand that the illusion is not that the dots disappear but that they appear at all. The dots aren't actually there, they only appear when your mind is interpreting the motion of light waves as "yellow". As soon as your mind is distracted, and ceases to do what it does, the dots cease to exist. Not seeing the dots is the reality. Seeing the dots is the illusion.
And so it is with time, its simply an illusion. Thanks for the explanation. Well done.
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Where?
Hi. When you say objects, do you refer to EMR aswell? If EMR energy is not propagating, then you also have nothing. Like you say, it's impossible to pin a clock on nothing.
Incorrect. Time is based on change. Movement just happens to be a subset of change, so it qualifies but is not a complete definition.
You could have a single object gradually changing color, and you would have time.
"Time is based on change."
But isn't all change fundamentally motion? changing of color = change in light wave frequency = motion. Hmmm.
But isn't all change fundamentally motion? changing of color = change in light wave frequency = motion. Hmmm.
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
In order for something to change doesn't something also have to move? You got me thinking now Swivel 
John Connellan
Valued Senior Member
Ha ha, you beat me to it fadingCaptain!!!
If a blue ball turns into a green ball in perfect darkness, it doesn't change color?
The properties of an object that make it a certain "color" do not rely on light nor on our ability to sense it. These qualia are properties of the objects themselves.
A change in qualia would mark the passage of time with no movement. Don't get fixated on movement when "change" is a better synonym for time.
“
but what is it that changes the colour
yes
which are the result of the movements within the object its self
I disagree
inorder for a change in Qualia to happen means that there must be a movement of some kind
behind the change is a movement of some kind , always
but what is it that changes the colour
yes
which are the result of the movements within the object its self
I disagree
inorder for a change in Qualia to happen means that there must be a movement of some kind
behind the change is a movement of some kind , always
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