The word "bigot".

[billvon]

I suppose that would be right. But for clarity we should stick to the wording of the definition. If he is intolerant of religious belief, then he is a bigot.

You think? I generally associate bigotry with sweeping negative generalizations based on race, religion, sex, sexual orientation etc.

If someone said "all blacks are stupid, but I can tolerate them as long as they're not also uppity too" - would you consider that person a bigot?

 

[billvon]

So what is wrong to be a bigot, a bigot is the one who openly expresses their likes and the dislikes.

You can definitely be a bigot if you like! Whether or not there is something wrong with that is up to you.

 

[Layman]

It seems like homophobia is a very common condition among a lot of people. If a lot of people where raised by gay's wouldn't that worsen their condition? So then wouldn't they ultimately end up all growing up to become bigots? And then we would end up having a generation of bigots? I could only imagine being raised by gay parents, one thing is for sure, I think I would have moved away from the nest a lot sooner.

From my experience confronting people with fears only worsens that type of phobia, like my little brother was afraid of me popping balloons. I thought I would try to prove that there was no reason to be scared and that it would just make a loud noise. To this day I think he still has an unnatural fear of balloons fifteen years later. I think the phrase confronting your fears had somehow backfired by trying to confront someone with this type of fear, otherwise I think he wouldn't have had this fear because he could have got over it because the only reason he had this fear was from being a small child that would naturally be afraid of loud sudden noises. Then people that would not have been confronted with this fear would not have a phobia later on in life because of it.

 

[billvon]

It seems like homophobia is a very common condition among a lot of people.

Not so much any more,

If a lot of people where raised by gay's wouldn't that worsen their condition?

No.

So then wouldn't they ultimately end up all growing up to become bigots? And then we would end up having a generation of bigots?

No and no.

I could only imagine being raised by gay parents, one thing is for sure, I think I would have moved away from the nest a lot sooner.

Probably true, if the reality of homosexuality matched your fantasies. In the real world being gay or straight is not related to "driving people out of the nest."

From my experience confronting people with fears only worsens that type of phobia

The primary cause of homophobia is ignorance. That is often (but not always) curable.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

It seems like homophobia is a very common condition among a lot of people. If a lot of people where raised by gay's wouldn't that worsen their condition?

Where the hell did you pick up that idiotic idea? We're you raised in Moscow? Iran? Malaysia? Nigeria?

Sure, we all know that children raised by one mother and one father have a theoretical advantage in growing up, because they live with a balance of masculine and feminine energy. To the extent that men and women are truly different (and if you don't believe that they are, just try striking up a conversation about shoes with a man), they get what both genders have to offer.

Yet... in 21st century America a huge percentage of children are raised by single mothers. I have often lamented this fact, since it is well known (but seldom discussed in the public forum because the notion is "politically incorrect") that boys who grow up without a father, or at least a father figure (dedicated uncle or grandfather, revered elder in the community, etc.) are far more likely to drop out of school, join gangs, commit crimes, and in general become more of a liability to society than an asset

Not a lot of children are raised by single fathers, but since they're such an anomaly their life stories are often presented in the news, and they seem to not have the same problems that the children of single mothers so often have. This is not to say that they don't have their own set of problems, but so far at least they don't seem to be the kinds of problems that threaten the survival of civilization.

So what's wrong with having two fathers? Considering that it is an almost universal cliché that in a gay couple one of the men has a strong feminine side and exhibits many of the attitudes, abilities, and interests that are more typical of women, you'd think that people who run their lives on clichés (which describes about 99% of homophobes including, apparently, you) would at least be mollified by the "fact" that a child with two male parents is probably being "mothered" rather well by one of them.

There are just as many children being raised by two mothers, and the cliché is just as strong (or perhaps stronger) that one of the members of a lesbian couple is always very "butch," so once again, you'd expect the cliché-driven homophobes to at least be mollified by the "fact" that one of those moms is really a dad with titties.

So then wouldn't they ultimately end up all growing up to become bigots?

I have provided considerable information that virtually annihilates your premise. Therefore, until you respond to my rebuttal and prove me wrong (how many years did you live in Hollywood?) the conclusion you derived from that premise ain't worth doodley-squat.

I could only imagine being raised by gay parents, one thing is for sure, I think I would have moved away from the nest a lot sooner.

Why do you suppose that a child raised by gay parents, who would understand the reality of this kind of family structure (unlike you, who have a fantasy you must have been taught by your Redneck uncle Zeke), would be unhappy? When parents love their children and treat them with kindness and respect, the children usually respond the same way.

From my experience confronting people with fears only worsens that type of phobia, like my little brother was afraid of me popping balloons. I thought I would try to prove that there was no reason to be scared and that it would just make a loud noise.

Let me give you some professional advice: Do NOT choose a career as a psychologist. You know absolutely nothing about human feelings or human behavior. It's very difficult to cure someone of a phobia. And you don't start by shoving whatever they're afraid of in their face. That doesn't work on dogs or cats, and it doesn't work on humans. What that's most likely to do is cause them to associate you with the thing they're afraid of, so your brother may have grown up fearing and hating you as much as he fears and hates balloons.

I'm kinda scared of you myself. One good-ol'-boy like you, with a head full of 18th-century "wisdom," can do tremendous damage to society.

To this day I think he still has an unnatural fear of balloons fifteen years later.

Considering that he had the most incompetent behavioral psychologist in seven counties, that's not surprising.

I think the phrase confronting your fears had somehow backfired by trying to confront someone with this type of fear, otherwise I think he wouldn't have had this fear because he could have got over it because the only reason he had this fear was from being a small child that would naturally be afraid of loud sudden noises. Then people that would not have been confronted with this fear would not have a phobia later on in life because of it.

You don't even understand the language of psychology! The idea of confronting one's fears revolves around, literally, confronting the fear itself, which is inside one's head. It does not mean confronting the thing you're afraid of.

 

[arauca]

Not so much any more,





The primary cause of homophobia is ignorance. That is often (but not always) curable.

According to Russia Duma, open homosexuality erodes morals of future society .

 

[billvon]

According to Russia Duma, open homosexuality erodes morals of future society .

According to actual research it does not. The children of gays are just as well adjusted, just as happy, and just as successful as the children of straight people. Indeed one could argue that gays, on the average, will be better parents; gays will not end up becoming parents out of carelessness, stupidity or ignorance. This benefits society.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

According to Russia Duma, open homosexuality erodes morals of future society .

Please tell me that you don't believe anything the Russians say? They may not be communists anymore, but they're still living in the 19th century.

 

[Layman]

Where the hell did you pick up that idiotic idea? We're you raised in Moscow? Iran? Malaysia? Nigeria?

I got that idea from High School in the United States of America. Apparently being a homophobe was a big deal, and a lot of people where accused of being a homophobe and did not deny this. A lot of people do not like gays and cannot stand being around gay people and they make them uncomfortable. I think it would be wrong to force people into this type of situation. I cringe at the sight of watching two gay people kissing even on television. I think it is only natural and normal to be homophobic as it seems to be very common.

Why do you suppose that a child raised by gay parents, who would understand the reality of this kind of family structure (unlike you, who have a fantasy you must have been taught by your Redneck uncle Zeke), would be unhappy? When parents love their children and treat them with kindness and respect, the children usually respond the same way.

I don't think it is an issue of being raised by parents of both sex's. For instance, older people are more comfortable undressing in front of people that are the same sex. They where raised thinking that this was acceptable, and then they more often had to do this. People of my generation (X) mostly do not feel comfortable undressing around people of the same sex. They never have had to do this, and if a time comes that they do they will think twice about it unlike the generation of hippy pot smokers that came before us that would prance around naked all the time out in fields.

I think there have been recent changes in society about prejudice's and that has changed from blacks to gays and that can be seen through the rise in protest of gay rights. It use to be socially acceptable to be against gays among other straight people, and they would on the most part not be prejudice against blacks. For instance white people would try to act like they are black, but then no one would try to pretend that they are gay.

Let me give you some professional advice: Do NOT choose a career as a psychologist. You know absolutely nothing about human feelings or human behavior. It's very difficult to cure someone of a phobia. And you don't start by shoving whatever they're afraid of in their face. That doesn't work on dogs or cats, and it doesn't work on humans. What that's most likely to do is cause them to associate you with the thing they're afraid of, so your brother may have grown up fearing and hating you as much as he fears and hates balloons.

I think you are neglecting the fact that I had learned from this experiment, it may have been true that back then I was a bad psychologist, but then I had learned from those mistakes.

I'm kinda scared of you myself. One good-ol'-boy like you, with a head full of 18th-century "wisdom," can do tremendous damage to society.

I think all it took was telling one person of the idea that gay marriage would lead to gay's having children and it didn't take long to then see a movement against this in the popular media.

 

[Randwolf]

@Layman

Lightning is going to strike any moment now....

 

[Layman]

@Layman

Lightning is going to strike any moment now....

I don't think I will be feeling any effects of God's wraith anytime soon for being anti-gay, a lot of religious organizations would feel just the opposite. I know some people are born that way, but it is a genetic defect. The problem is that we cannot convince people that are gay to try and fix this problem with hormone therapy, because to them it would be like trying to tell a straight person that they need to take a pill that would then turn them gay.

They are gay, and by that I mean they are really gay. There is no reason why anyone of any sexual orientation would want that to be changed because they are used to the idea that is the way that they should feel. It would be like trying to talk someone into becoming gay, it just isn't going to happen.

If they where really that gay and open with gayness then they would do what would then be gay to them and become straight. But, they will not because to them that just would be totally gay. So in a sense I think they are just as prejudice against straight people as straight people would be to gays, and I think some gay people could understand that.

If they where not born that way then they could just be a sick individual that has mental problems or has become to start to have a hormone deficiency. If they have just become perverse despite their hormones they should not have children. If they are having a deficiency then they should seek treatment. They will just not seek this type of treatment because we make it seem like it is okay to be gay or become gay.

I think I would respect them a lot more if they did try to become straight. Then I would now that they are really okay with being gay, by being with the sex that they are not even attracted too. If they really wanted to show people that being gay was okay they would become straight, because to them that would just be gay.

 

[Balerion]

I don't think I will be feeling any effects of God's wraith anytime soon for being anti-gay, a lot of religious organizations would feel just the opposite.

He wasn't talking about God's wrath, genius...

I know some people are born that way, but it is a genetic defect.

Which gene is defective?

The problem is that we cannot convince people that are gay to try and fix this problem with hormone therapy, because to them it would be like trying to tell a straight person that they need to take a pill that would then turn them gay.

There is no "hormone therapy" to turn gay people straight. It doesn't exist.

But even if there were, why would a gay person's refusal to participate in it give you a poor opinion of them? Are you anti-deaf people simply because some choose not to opt for the cochlear implant? I don't understand why you'd hate people for being okay with who they are.

They are gay, and by that I mean they are really gay. There is no reason why anyone of any sexual orientation would want that to be changed because they are used to the idea that is the way that they should feel. It would be like trying to talk someone into becoming gay, it just isn't going to happen.

That's not necessarily true. Gay people have suffered immensely at the hands of people like you, who hate them and seek to harm or oppress them simply for their sexuality. Attitudes are better now in the west, but the struggle is not finished here, and there are parts of the world where being gay is punishable by death, either by law or by society. There are many gay people who have wished and do wish they were not born this way.

If they where really that gay and open with gayness then they would do what would then be gay to them and become straight.

I hate to be vulgar here, but what are you, fucking twelve? What kind of half-assed idiot logic is that? I mean, don't get me wrong, I didn't have high hopes given how poorly you spell, but this is maybe the most absurd thing I've ever read on this forum. Gay people, if they were really gay, would be straight, because that's gay to them? What the shit? You've gone from accepting that they are born gay to making it some social condition that they have absolute control of.

But, they will not because to them that just would be totally gay. So in a sense I think they are just as prejudice against straight people as straight people would be to gays, and I think some gay people could understand that.

Not wanting to participate in a behavior does not mean you are prejudice against it or the people who practice it. For example, not wanting to have sex with men does not make me anti-gay. It just makes me straight. Likewise, a gay woman not wanting to have sex with a man doesn't make her anti-straight, it just makes her gay.

What makes a person prejudice is when they hate another for some trivial thing such as their sexuality. Like you're doing right now.

If they where not born that way then they could just be a sick individual that has mental problems or has become to start to have a hormone deficiency. If they have just become perverse despite their hormones they should not have children. If they are having a deficiency then they should seek treatment. They will just not seek this type of treatment because we make it seem like it is okay to be gay or become gay.

It is okay to be gay. There's nothing morally wrong with it. Two consenting adults (or, hey, more than two) having sex doesn't affect your life one way or the other, so you really don't need to have an opinion on it.

I think I would respect them a lot more if they did try to become straight.

Many have. And, thanks to the people trying to "cure" them, many are worse off than before, or dead by suicide.

Then I would now that they are really okay with being gay, by being with the sex that they are not even attracted too. If they really wanted to show people that being gay was okay they would become straight.

That's the dumbest shit I've ever read. Congrats.

 

[Layman]

He wasn't talking about God's wrath, genius...

Then what was he talking about? Why else would lightning strike at any moment now? You know there is an old saying that lightning will strike you because God is angry right? I think this story comes from a story in the Bible where God tells someone to have sex with a woman because his brother that was married to her died without having a child. Then he didn't get her pregnant and "pulled out" so then got struck him with lightning since he has sex with her but then opted out of getting her pregnant, the whole point of why God told them to have sex.

Which gene is defective?

I would guess the one that makes testosterone or estrogen.

There is no "hormone therapy" to turn gay people straight. It doesn't exist.

I have heard that they can take hormones for this but they don't take them because they want to be gay.

But even if there were, why would a gay person's refusal to participate in it give you a poor opinion of them? Are you anti-deaf people simply because some choose not to opt for the cochlear implant? I don't understand why you'd hate people for being okay with who they are.

Because they are doing the same thing that people that are anit-gay are doing. People that are anti-gay don't think people should be with people of the same sex and gay people don't think it would be okay for them to take a drug that would then make them want to be with people of the opposite sex. They are both stuck in what sex of people should have sex with and don't want to change. I think this is because to them being straight would be "gay".

That's not necessarily true. Gay people have suffered immensely at the hands of people like you, who hate them and seek to harm or oppress them simply for their sexuality. Attitudes are better now in the west, but the struggle is not finished here, and there are parts of the world where being gay is punishable by death, either by law or by society. There are many gay people who have wished and do wish they were not born this way.

I have never made a gay person suffer. I just don't associate myself with them. You feel this way because you are prejudice against people that say they are anti-gay rights. I think a lot of people would suffer from issues having to be raised by gay people. Personally if I where to put myself in that type of situation it would be a nightmare and I would suffer because of it. It could mean a generation of people that wish they where never born into a family of gay parents.

I hate to be vulgar here, but what are you, ******* twelve? What kind of half-***** idiot logic is that? I mean, don't get me wrong, I didn't have high hopes given how poorly you spell, but this is maybe the most absurd thing I've ever read on this forum. Gay people, if they were really gay, would be straight, because that's gay to them? What the ****? You've gone from accepting that they are born gay to making it some social condition that they have absolute control of.

Why would they feel like they have to make me feel like I am wrong or a bad person because the idea of being with someone of the same sex disgust me? If they are not disgusted by any type of intercourse then they should be open to the idea of being straight, but a lot of gay people are not. They would be equally disgusted by being with someone of the opposite sex. Well, two shay, I would be equally disgusted by being with someone of the same sex.

Not wanting to participate in a behavior does not mean you are prejudice against it or the people who practice it. For example, not wanting to have sex with men does not make me anti-gay. It just makes me straight. Likewise, a gay woman not wanting to have sex with a man doesn't make her anti-straight, it just makes her gay.

A woman not wanting to have sex with a man just makes her a woman. Women are more prone to homosexual tendencies, and they accuse men of being perverted even though they do this when they are not actually even gay. Men are highly less likely to have homosexual tendencies or open to gay people.

What makes a person prejudice is when they hate another for some trivial thing such as their sexuality. Like you're doing right now.

I did no such thing, I was just giving it to the people straight. I don't hate gay people, I just think they are really gross.

It is okay to be gay. There's nothing morally wrong with it. Two consenting adults (or, hey, more than two) having sex doesn't affect your life one way or the other, so you really don't need to have an opinion on it.

Then is it okay to be born without an arm or a leg? Is it okay to justify someone having problem by saying that it is okay even though you really don't think it is? The first step to solving a problem is admitting that you have a problem. Then you can recognize that a problem is there so then you can then take steps to solve it. To then deny people of seeing that problem would then be forcing them to keep that problem on themselves. All I said was, if it okay to be gay and be with people of the sex that you don't think you should be with, then you should take hormone pills to become straight. That should be something that is okay to do then. It wouldn't be wrong to want to have sex with someone of the opposite sex.

Many have. And, thanks to the people trying to "cure" them, many are worse off than before, or dead by suicide.

I thought you said there was no treatment, they could take hormone pills to make up for the ones that they are lacking, there may be no cure but there is treatment.

 

[Balerion]

Then what was he talking about? Why else would lightning strike at any moment now?

Presumably because you were about to get your head figuratively kicked in by people smarter and more tolerant than you.

I would guess the one that makes testosterone or estrogen.

You would be wrong. What on earth makes you believe that testosterone or estrogen has anything to do with sexual orientation? Is it because you, like many bigots, subscribe to the notion that all homosexuals display characteristics of the opposite sex?

I have heard that they can take hormones for this but they don't take them because they want to be gay.

You have heard? From who, your reverend?

It isn't true. Homosexuality isn't an issue of hormones.

Because they are doing the same thing that people that are anit-gay are doing. People that are anti-gay don't think people should be with people of the same sex and gay people don't think it would be okay for them to take a drug that would then make them want to be with people of the opposite sex. They are both stuck in what sex of people should have sex with and don't want to change. I think this is because to them being straight would be "gay".

This is a straw man. It's several, actually. For one, there is no treatment that makes gay people straight, or straight people gay, so no one is refusing their medicine, so to speak. Secondly, gay people aren't against opposite-sex relationships for other people. They don't think heterosexuality is immoral or any of the nonsense that homophobes invent to propagate their hatred. Them not wanting to be in heterosexual relationships is not bigotry, just as my not wanting to be in a homosexual relationship is not bigotry.

I have never made a gay person suffer.

Of course you have. Every time you regurgitate this stupidity in public, you perpetuate ignorance and in doing so reinforce the bigotry of another like-minded moron.

I just don't associate myself with them.

For absolutely no good reason at all.

You feel this way because you are prejudice against people that say they are anti-gay rights.

Yes, because people who are anti-gay are mean-spirited idiots who actively seek to harm others because of their sexuality. I have no patience for people like that.

I think a lot of people would suffer from issues having to be raised by gay people. Personally if I where to put myself in that type of situation it would be a nightmare and I would suffer because of it. It could mean a generation of people that wish they where never born into a family of gay parents.

Okay, first of all, it's "were," not "where."

There are plenty of happy, well-adjusted people who were raised by gay parents. You can't imagine being in that situation because you've been raised to be a bigot, but if you actually had been born to gay parents, you almost certainly wouldn't feel that way. Because you'd actually know at least two gay people, and you'd see them for what they are: human beings. But because you don't know any gay people, or at least have never gotten to know any, you only know them as abstracts, and those images have been distorted by the scumbags who have influenced you--whether that's a religious leader, right-wing propaganda, your friends, or your family--to the point where you can't see that scenario as anything but a nightmare.

To people who aren't drooling mongoloids incapable of spelling "were," however, it's not any worse than being raised by anyone else. I mean, I was raised by my maternal grandparents, who raised me as their son, and it was painfully obvious during social functions requiring their presence that my parents were older than everyone else's. I took a bit of ribbing for that, and it was kind of embarrassing. But kids are kids, and I'm over it. I wouldn't trade my childhood for anything, nor trade them for different parents, in spite of that and all their other faults. In other words, getting made fun of is no reason to not do something.

Why would they feel like they have to make me feel like I am wrong or a bad person because the idea of being with someone of the same sex disgust me? If they are not disgusted by any type of intercourse then they should be open to the idea of being straight, but a lot of gay people are not. They would be equally disgusted by being with someone of the opposite sex. Well, two shay, I would be equally disgusted by being with someone of the same sex.

No one's asking you to be open to gay sex. If people are put off by your repulsion, it's likely because you're so open about it, and such feelings are almost always accompanied by bigotry--which in your case is true, since you've admitted to not simply being repulsed by their behavior, but to being against them having equal rights and believing they should have to submit to "hormone therapy" for an apparent "genetic defect" that you seem to inexplicably believe has to do with testosterone and estrogen. So, yeah, gay people probably don't have much time for your shit. But then, neither do I, and nor would anyone else who believes human beings shouldn't be judged simply for being gay. So it isn't a gay thing, it's a human thing. We don't like you because you suck. (no pun intended)

A woman not wanting to have sex with a man just makes her a woman.

Men, not "a man." A woman who doesn't want to have sex with men is either asexual or homosexual. That was the point I was making.

Women are more prone to homosexual tendencies, and they accuse men of being perverted even though they do this when they are not actually even gay. Men are highly less likely to have homosexual tendencies or open to gay people.

I don't know where you pulled this from, but I wouldn't want you holding it under my nose...

For the record, homosexuality occurs in a slightly higher percentage of men than women. You're probably referring to same-sex experimentation, though, and on that count I suspect that it happens at a similar rate among both sexes. Women are more open about it, but that speaks more to society's relative acceptance of female-female imagery than it is of male-male imagery. Though that's beginning to change. Once homosexuality is as mainstream as interracial dating, I think you'll find men no longer feel the need to hide their own homosexual experiences like they do now.

I did no such thing, I was just giving it to the people straight. I don't hate gay people, I just think they are really gross.

It's a bit more than that, even by your own admission. You've said that they shouldn't have rights, and that they are bigots for not being open to heterosexual relationships. I grant you that you are very confused by this issue, but nobody's buying that this is all about your gag reflex.

And even then, it's your own damn fault that you're still grossed out by it. When I met my first gay man, (I say man, we were both in our late teens) I was very uncomfortable. He was extremely flamboyant, and I had to listen while he told our mutual friend of his latest conquest in disturbing detail--Santorum and all. Yeah, I was put off. For a while. Then, as I got to know him, and others who weren't screaming queens, I stopped being grossed out by it. It doesn't bother me at all anymore, and hasn't for years.

You perpetuate your own fear and disgust by avoiding these people and pitting yourself against them as if they're out to get you. Grow up, broaden your horizons, and you'll find these fears and ill feelings falling away.

Then is it okay to be born without an arm or a leg?

Why do you bigots insist upon comparing homosexuality to depravity or birth defects? Why not compare it to left-handedness, or eye color? Gay people aren't missing anything, and they're not hurting anyone.

To answer your loaded question, however: Yes, it's perfectly okay to be born that way. Why wouldn't it be? And what concern is it of yours if that person opts not to use a prosthesis? (as long as we're insisting upon your ridiculous comparison)

Is it okay to justify someone having problem by saying that it is okay even though you really don't think it is?

I don't know what you're trying to say here.

The first step to solving a problem is admitting that you have a problem. Then you can recognize that a problem is there so then you can then take steps to solve it. To then deny people of seeing that problem would then be forcing them to keep that problem on themselves.

This is dripping with irony. Indeed, it's you who needs to admit to having a problem. Homosexuality doesn't affect you in any way, it doesn't make your marriage any less significant, it doesn't hurt you in the bedroom or make your life less meaningful. Your bigotry, however, hurts plenty.

All I said was, if it okay to be gay and be with people of the sex that you don't think you should be with, then you should take hormone pills to become straight.

This is nonsense. Do you think gay people aren't attracted to their own sex? I don't get what point you're trying to make here.

And you really need to get off of this "hormone pill" garbage. There is no therapy, medicinal or otherwise, to turn gay people straight.

It wouldn't be wrong to want to have sex with someone of the opposite sex.

It isn't, and no one says it is.

I thought you said there was no treatment, they could take hormone pills to make up for the ones that they are lacking, there may be no cure but there is treatment.

No, there isn't. The "treatment" I'm talking about is of the "pray away the gay" variety, and is nothing more than religious propaganda that traumatizes gay people.

 

[Layman]

Presumably because you were about to get your head figuratively kicked in by people smarter and more tolerant than you.

So you think that I thought that I was actually under some kind of threat from God himself that was going to actually strike me with lightning because I think that gay people should not get married and have children? To make to myself more clear, I did not think that this was going to happen or will ever happen.

You would be wrong. What on earth makes you believe that testosterone or estrogen has anything to do with sexual orientation? Is it because you, like many bigots, subscribe to the notion that all homosexuals display characteristics of the opposite sex?

I think I heard about it on MTV. It had a gay person on there that said that they don't want to take hormones to try and make them straight. So I figured he didn't want to do this because he was gay, and thought that he should only be attracted to other men and this shouldn't change.

You have heard? From who, your reverend?

It isn't true. Homosexuality isn't an issue of hormones.

No I have never heard a reverend speak about this. If it doesn't have anything to do with hormones, what does it have to do with? Do you think it is only perversion that drives gay people into being gay?

This is a straw man. It's several, actually. For one, there is no treatment that makes gay people straight, or straight people gay, so no one is refusing their medicine, so to speak. Secondly, gay people aren't against opposite-sex relationships for other people. They don't think heterosexuality is immoral or any of the nonsense that homophobes invent to propagate their hatred. Them not wanting to be in heterosexual relationships is not bigotry, just as my not wanting to be in a homosexual relationship is not bigotry.

Why would gay people lie about this on television? I think you just have not heard of this before. I take it you do not agree with science and biology and its influence on the human psyche? If it is not hormones that what does that leave to be the cause of this type of disorder?

Of course you have. Every time you regurgitate this stupidity in public, you perpetuate ignorance and in doing so reinforce the bigotry of another like-minded moron.

It seems to have hit a button with you, but then you don't claim to even be gay. I just don't understand why someone would just want to be gay and then think that it is okay to be gay. Maybe you could explain better than I can what it means to be gay and why it is so important that is acceptable to other people and why some gay people would not want to be straight.

Yes, because people who are anti-gay are mean-spirited idiots who actively seek to harm others because of their sexuality. I have no patience for people like that.

It sounds like you have some issues from getting beat up for being gay.

Okay, first of all, it's "were," not "where."

There are plenty of happy, well-adjusted people who were raised by gay parents. You can't imagine being in that situation because you've been raised to be a bigot, but if you actually had been born to gay parents, you almost certainly wouldn't feel that way. Because you'd actually know at least two gay people, and you'd see them for what they are: human beings. But because you don't know any gay people, or at least have never gotten to know any, you only know them as abstracts, and those images have been distorted by the scumbags who have influenced you--whether that's a religious leader, right-wing propaganda, your friends, or your family--to the point where you can't see that scenario as anything but a nightmare.

I have not been raised to be against gays. I think it is just that being a normal heterosexual male I just find gay intercourse revolting between men. No one ever told me to be against gays, I have just seen gay people on television and found it unsettling. I think it is part of our nature and I find it really hard to believe that you are a straight male from your comments. Rather you act on those feelings or not to do something against them is a completely different matter.

To people who aren't drooling mongoloids incapable of spelling "were," however, it's not any worse than being raised by anyone else. I mean, I was raised by my maternal grandparents, who raised me as their son, and it was painfully obvious during social functions requiring their presence that my parents were older than everyone else's. I took a bit of ribbing for that, and it was kind of embarrassing. But kids are kids, and I'm over it. I wouldn't trade my childhood for anything, nor trade them for different parents, in spite of that and all their other faults. In other words, getting made fun of is no reason to not do something.

I don't get why being with your grandparents would be embarrassing. Some people are embarrassed just by being with their parents, but I go places with my parents all the time and they are old and it doesn't bother me. Mostly because everywhere in town we go there is just only old people anyways.

No one's asking you to be open to gay sex. If people are put off by your repulsion, it's likely because you're so open about it, and such feelings are almost always accompanied by bigotry--which in your case is true, since you've admitted to not simply being repulsed by their behavior, but to being against them having equal rights and believing they should have to submit to "hormone therapy" for an apparent "genetic defect" that you seem to inexplicably believe has to do with testosterone and estrogen. So, yeah, gay people probably don't have much time for your shit. But then, neither do I, and nor would anyone else who believes human beings shouldn't be judged simply for being gay. So it isn't a gay thing, it's a human thing. We don't like you because you suck. (no pun intended)

Could you say for certain that every gay parent would not ask their child to be open to gay sex? It seems like it would cause confusion about roles in children raised by gay parents. Where your parents gay so you had to be raised by your grandparents or something? I don't think of myself as being less of person because I don't find homosexual activities as being tempting.

Men, not "a man." A woman who doesn't want to have sex with men is either asexual or homosexual. That was the point I was making.

You obviously haven't had much experience with women.

For the record, homosexuality occurs in a slightly higher percentage of men than women. You're probably referring to same-sex experimentation, though, and on that count I suspect that it happens at a similar rate among both sexes. Women are more open about it, but that speaks more to society's relative acceptance of female-female imagery than it is of male-male imagery. Though that's beginning to change. Once homosexuality is as mainstream as interracial dating, I think you'll find men no longer feel the need to hide their own homosexual experiences like they do now.

I don't think this is true, but it is only delusional fantasies that you are having and that is the only place this comes from. The reason why men do not like male-male imagery is because they are not homosexual, and they cannot even imagine wanting to be gay. Women are more open about it because they enjoy playing mind games on men and they know that they like it.

It's a bit more than that, even by your own admission. You've said that they shouldn't have rights, and that they are bigots for not being open to heterosexual relationships. I grant you that you are very confused by this issue, but nobody's buying that this is all about your gag reflex.

That is most likely because you don't have one when it comes to this issue.

And even then, it's your own damn fault that you're still grossed out by it. When I met my first gay man, (I say man, we were both in our late teens) I was very uncomfortable. He was extremely flamboyant, and I had to listen while he told our mutual friend of his latest conquest in disturbing detail--Santorum and all. Yeah, I was put off. For a while. Then, as I got to know him, and others who weren't screaming queens, I stopped being grossed out by it. It doesn't bother me at all anymore, and hasn't for years.

You perpetuate your own fear and disgust by avoiding these people and pitting yourself against them as if they're out to get you. Grow up, broaden your horizons, and you'll find these fears and ill feelings falling away.

There was a guy in my school that was gay and very flamboyant. I couldn't stand him, and I wouldn't ever dare talk to him or else I would fear that he would feel like he had to talk to me. I dreaded everyday I had to go to that class, because he was a real loud mouth and a smart aleck and I just couldn't stand hearing his voice. I never got over it and I can only thank God that I only had him for one class.

Why do you bigots insist upon comparing homosexuality to depravity or birth defects? Why not compare it to left-handedness, or eye color? Gay people aren't missing anything, and they're not hurting anyone.

To answer your loaded question, however: Yes, it's perfectly okay to be born that way. Why wouldn't it be? And what concern is it of yours if that person opts not to use a prosthesis? (as long as we're insisting upon your ridiculous comparison)

They compare it that way because they cannot grasp why a normal person would want to be gay. It is impossible to put yourself in their shoes and then understand why they would want to or choose to be gay. So then they figure it must be because of some biological defect.

This is dripping with irony. Indeed, it's you who needs to admit to having a problem. Homosexuality doesn't affect you in any way, it doesn't make your marriage any less significant, it doesn't hurt you in the bedroom or make your life less meaningful. Your bigotry, however, hurts plenty.

I guess you just don't like straight men who are honest. I don't feel like I should have to lie to make a gay man happy, for obvious reasons. If life gives you lemons make lemonade, it doesn't make it okay to become gay. It sounds like you really need someone in your life that will lie to you about how they truly feel about things. Honestly if someone is straight and they act like they are okay with gays it is just a masquerade of them trying to be politically correct. I am proud to be a homophobe and I do not regret it, and that is simply all this is really. I will wear it like a badge of honor, and I think it is only people's inability to do that is what makes being gay okay politically correct.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I know some people are born that way, but it is a genetic defect.

You are so ignorant that you're probably the mascot for the state of Alabama. It's been known for at least fifteen years that homosexuality is not genetic. There are quite a few of pairs of identical twins in which one is straight and one is gay. It's been suggested that it might be due to conditions in utero. Even two fetuses in the same uterus don't necessarily experience identical conditions.

 

[Balerion]

So you think that I thought that I was actually under some kind of threat from God himself that was going to actually strike me with lightning because I think that gay people should not get married and have children? To make to myself more clear, I did not think that this was going to happen or will ever happen.

I never suggested you did. You asked why he would say that, and I told you.

I think I heard about it on MTV. It had a gay person on there that said that they don't want to take hormones to try and make them straight. So I figured he didn't want to do this because he was gay, and thought that he should only be attracted to other men and this shouldn't change.

"I think I heard it on MTV" has to be the stupidest answer anyone has ever given for why they've adopted a worldview. Seriously, there are beauty pageant contestants who have offered better explanations for why they believe in something.

No I have never heard a reverend speak about this. If it doesn't have anything to do with hormones, what does it have to do with? Do you think it is only perversion that drives gay people into being gay?

The options aren't limited to "hormones" or "perversion." Fraggle offers an alternative in his post above. Perhaps you should, you know, actually look into it, instead of relying on 10-second news updates in between episodes of Jersey Shore for the entirety of your understanding of homosexuality's biological causes.

Why would gay people lie about this on television? I think you just have not heard of this before. I take it you do not agree with science and biology and its influence on the human psyche? If it is not hormones that what does that leave to be the cause of this type of disorder?

If you're suggesting I've never heard of hormone therapy to "cure" homosexuality, you're right. But that's because it doesn't exist. Nor is it a disorder. It happens in nature at about the same ratio it happens in humans. It's just a variation. It's like left-handedness or eye color. It's really that inconsequential.

It seems to have hit a button with you, but then you don't claim to even be gay.

I'm not an ethnic minority either, but I support racial equality. Is the concept of shared humanity really that alien to you?

I just don't understand why someone would just want to be gay and then think that it is okay to be gay. Maybe you could explain better than I can what it means to be gay and why it is so important that is acceptable to other people and why some gay people would not want to be straight.

Why don't you ask a gay person?

It sounds like you have some issues from getting beat up for being gay.

I have issues with people who hurt other people for no reason.

And people don't beat me up. But if you'd like to try, I'd be more than happy to oblige, sunshine.

I have not been raised to be against gays. I think it is just that being a normal heterosexual male I just find gay intercourse revolting between men. No one ever told me to be against gays, I have just seen gay people on television and found it unsettling. I think it is part of our nature and I find it really hard to believe that you are a straight male from your comments. Rather you act on those feelings or not to do something against them is a completely different matter.

So in your diseased little mind, only a gay person can stick up for gay people? Or is this just an ego defense, now that I've trounced your middle school-level arguments? By that same token, only women can strive for women's rights, and only minorities can do the same for racial equality. I can't even imagine how animal rights activists trained themselves to talk, seeing as how they're really just animals pretending to be people, because no one in this world stands for anything other than their own interests.

Oh, wait, that's just bigot frittatas like you.

I don't get why being with your grandparents would be embarrassing. Some people are embarrassed just by being with their parents, but I go places with my parents all the time and they are old and it doesn't bother me. Mostly because everywhere in town we go there is just only old people anyways.

It doesn't bother me now. But as a child, it was embarrassing to be different.

How old are you, by the way? I'm guessing you're very young, given your spelling and your attitudes in general, but your comment above leads me to believe that you're still at home with mom and dad.

Could you say for certain that every gay parent would not ask their child to be open to gay sex?

Where the hell did you get an idea like that? Nobody is telling their children they should be open to gay sex.

It seems like it would cause confusion about roles in children raised by gay parents.

Why? Have you given it any thought, or is this all coming off the top of your head? I feel like ten minutes of introspection would disabuse you of most of this bigotry.

Where your parents gay so you had to be raised by your grandparents or something?

Why would my parents' sexuality have anything to do with me being raised by my grandparents?

I don't think of myself as being less of person because I don't find homosexual activities as being tempting.

Nor would I. But that's not all you're doing here, is it? You're also insinuating that gays can't be good parents, and that they have a disorder that needs to be cured. You're also accusing them of bigotry against straight people. Oh, and let's not forget you saying that they shouldn't have equal rights.

Now stop pretending that you're only saying you don't want to have gay sex. And for whatever it's worth, all this protesting you're doing only makes you sound like a repressed homosexual.

You obviously haven't had much experience with women.

I'm sorry, how did you derive that from what I said?

I don't think this is true, but it is only delusional fantasies that you are having and that is the only place this comes from.

There's no reason to believe that men are not every bit as sexually experimental as women, and plenty of studies to suggest otherwise.

The reason why men do not like male-male imagery is because they are not homosexual, and they cannot even imagine wanting to be gay.

It isn't a question of want. It's not a choice. And it's not about "liking" male-male imagery. It's about being tolerant of it. Society is tolerant of female-female imagery, yet not so much with men. But as I said before, this is changing. Our society has more male homoeroticism than every before, and there's only going to be more of it. So buckle up, kid, you're in for a ride (one that I suspect you'll like)

Women are more open about it because they enjoy playing mind games on men and they know that they like it.

Spoken like someone who's view of women is wholly formed by cable television.

Kudos on outing yourself as a misogynist in a thread unrelated to the topic, by the way.

That is most likely because you don't have one when it comes to this issue.

As I said in the post you're responding to, I used to. But with understanding comes tolerance, and then acceptance. I got over my immature preconceptions. It turned out that I was just uncomfortable with the strangeness of it; I had never heard a guy talk about another guy like that. I had never been looked at by a man in that way, either. But once the novelty wore off, he was just some guy that I knew, and homosexuality wasn't even a thing to me. And you'd feel the same way, if you'd let yourself get over it. But you're obviously not mature enough for that. In time, perhaps.

There was a guy in my school that was gay and very flamboyant. I couldn't stand him, and I wouldn't ever dare talk to him or else I would fear that he would feel like he had to talk to me. I dreaded everyday I had to go to that class, because he was a real loud mouth and a smart aleck and I just couldn't stand hearing his voice. I never got over it and I can only thank God that I only had him for one class.

Why were you afraid of him? Did he pick on you? Or were you attracted to him? What was it that made him so scary?

And no one's saying you have to be fond of the screaming queens. I find them somewhat annoying myself, and so do some of my gay friends. But it has nothing to do with homosexuality. I no more want to socialize with them then I want to socialize with vapid, gum-smacking, shop-til-you-drop high-maintenance women. Or ultra-machismo men who call everything "gay," for that matter.

They compare it that way because they cannot grasp why a normal person would want to be gay. It is impossible to put yourself in their shoes and then understand why they would want to or choose to be gay. So then they figure it must be because of some biological defect.

No, you compare it to that because you think it's somehow wrong, or corrosive in some way. You think it's immoral--or at least the people you've learned this crap from do.

And it isn't impossible at all to put yourself in their shoes. They're doing what feels natural to them, just like you do. How I feel about the opposite sex is how they feel about their own. Nothing in the world's easier to empathize with than that. You worry about the details because you're a bigot who needs someone to hate; I realize that the details are just window dressing, and ultimately unimportant to the person inside.

I guess you just don't like straight men who are honest.

If I thought for a second I were talking to a straight man, you might have a point...

In any event, that's not what's at issue here. If you feel grossed out, that's fine. But as I told you, it's not an excuse to mistreat others, or to hold such a negative opinion of them as human beings. You should know this, considering how you claim to feel injured by the remarks of gay people who criticize you for your toxic opinion of them.

I don't feel like I should have to lie to make a gay man happy, for obvious reasons.

No one said you did. If you're content with being a bigot, fine. But remember that the same freedom you have to express your disgust at them is shared by others who have every right to express their disgust with you.

If life gives you lemons make lemonade, it doesn't make it okay to become gay.

A new idiot mantra is born.

Who becomes gay? And why isn't it okay? All you've said so far is that you don't like it; why should anyone be concerned with your opinion?

It sounds like you really need someone in your life that will lie to you about how they truly feel about things. Honestly if someone is straight and they act like they are okay with gays it is just a masquerade of them trying to be politically correct.

Obviously not. Gays make up a small population of the country. If it were only them campaigning on their own behalf, none of the progress we've made as a country over the last fifty years would have happened. Thankfully, most people aren't suffering from your profound lack of intellect and empathy.

I am proud to be a homophobe and I do not regret it, and that is simply all this is really. I will wear it like a badge of honor, and I think it is only people's inability to do that is what makes being gay okay politically correct.

Good for you. Just know that we're all laughing at you to your face, and pitying you behind your back.

 

[Randwolf]

Presumably because you were about to get your head figuratively kicked in by people smarter and more tolerant than you.

That pretty much sums it up. Actually, I thought Tiassa would play the role of Thor (he was viewing the thread when I posted) but you're doing a bang up job.

 

[billvon]

I got that idea from High School in the United States of America. Apparently being a homophobe was a big deal, and a lot of people where accused of being a homophobe and did not deny this. A lot of people do not like gays and cannot stand being around gay people and they make them uncomfortable. I think it is only natural and normal to be homophobic as it seems to be very common.

Yep. And in the 1950's, racism was very common. White people were uncomfortable around black people. Lots of whites did not like blacks and could not stand them living in white neighborhoods, dating white women or using the same drinking fountains. They thought it was only natural since whites (in their minds) were superior to blacks, and thus the races shouldn't mix.

We got over racism. We'll get over homophobia.

I think there have been recent changes in society about prejudice's and that has changed from blacks to gays and that can be seen through the rise in protest of gay rights. It use to be socially acceptable to be against gays among other straight people, and they would on the most part not be prejudice against blacks. For instance white people would try to act like they are black, but then no one would try to pretend that they are gay.

I take it you have never seen comedians, then?

I think all it took was telling one person of the idea that gay marriage would lead to gay's having children and it didn't take long to then see a movement against this in the popular media.

The opposite is happening. Popular media is rapidly becoming more accepting of gay parents.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

The opposite is happening. Popular media is rapidly becoming more accepting of gay parents.

Gay marriage, gay parenting, and LGBT issues in general are rapidly becoming non-issues. As gays (and lesbians and bisexuals and transsexuals) come out of their closets and we discover that they have been our neighbors, coworkers, realtors, grocers, mechanics and family members for all those years or even decades, and realize that during all that time absolutely nothing icky happened, we lose interest and turn our attention to more urgent matters.

The economy, the government spying on us with drones and computers, the three-way Nuclear Holy War that's brewing between the Christians, Jews and Muslims, more Americans being killed by gun violence than road accidents, the rising ocean that's going to cover 2/3 of the world's major cities within 200 years--stuff like that now seems way more important than where anybody puts their dick.