The universe is a mathematical construct

[river]

River: a few thoughts -

You might want to consider the concept of magnetic monopoles in this context (how life could relate to energy, at least in the beginning.) Monopoles are difficult to demonstrate with our quantum technologies, but theoretically, they are one-way processes, which would have been needed for life to start in the beginning, when random-type forces would have been present. So energy would have been key in such a world-setting.

This would relate to the question of whether there was an earlier world setting (prior to ours, possibly "pre quantization," in which very powerful energy fluxes existed that were possibly etherically rarified and thus complex enough in nature, to stimulate life to start.

Thanks for the thoughts Michael

Life is not a force of the Universe . Universe being defined as that which is a part of the Periodic Table . In any form . Hot and cold .

Life is force of its own . It Uses the Periodic Table , to survive , to manifest .

 

[Write4U]

Life is force of its own . It Uses the Periodic Table , to survive , to manifest .

"Life" is not a force per se. There is no Elan Vital.
But Life may be identified as a form of dynamical biophysical expression.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Life is force of its own . It Uses the Periodic Table , to survive , to manifest .

The Periodic Table has No Intelligence within it . The Periodic Table of Elements does not evolve nor adapt .

"Life" is not a force per se. There is no Elan Vital.

Yes it is, Yes There is . Life is the Force of Intelligence .

 

[Write4U]

Yes it is, Yes There is . Life is the Force of Intelligence .

Close but not driven by a motivated intelligence (ID).

Existence of everything in the universe (including life) is a continuing process of dynamical interactions of fundamental values (quanta) via mathematically guided functions. A better term for this model is a "quasi-intelligent" mathematical processing and ordering of physical demand created of necessity by the presence of sufficient elementary ingredients.
(Sorry Michael, there is no better model that I am aware of).

The proof of this hypothesis lies in the fact that human symbolic mathematics allows us to analyse and model universal physical properties and dynamical interactive functions to a high degree of accuracy, including prediction of future probabilities.

We understand the universe through mathematics. This is a falsifiable hypothesis and has proven practical application. There is no better alternative functional theory which is not founded in mathematics.

AFAIK there is no defensible alternate hypothesis.

p.s. @ river: I agree that physics is the substance of the universe. I propose that mathematics is the essence of the physical universe, not ID.

 

[river]

Close but not driven by a motivated intelligence (ID).

Existence of everything in the universe (including life) is a continuing process of dynamical interactions of fundamental values (quanta) via mathematically guided functions. A better term for this model is a "quasi-intelligent" mathematical processing and ordering of physical demand created of necessity by the presence of sufficient elementary ingredients.
(Sorry Michael, there is no better model that I am aware of).

The proof of this hypothesis lies in the fact that human symbolic mathematics allows us to analyse and model universal physical properties and dynamical interactive functions to a high degree of accuracy, including prediction of future probabilities.

We understand the universe through mathematics. This is a falsifiable hypothesis and has proven practical application. There is no better alternative functional theory which is not founded in mathematics.

AFAIK there is no defensible alternate hypothesis.

Energy and Matter , the Periodic Table , has no Life nor Intelligence .

BS Write4U .

Life and Life's Intelligence is not about design . But what Life is ; Life .

 

[Write4U]

BS Write4U .

No, that's on your wagon.

Life and Life's Intelligence in not about design.

Life is just another form of imperative dynamical existence via mathematical "guiding equations".

But life what it is ; Life

I agree, but why do you want to make it mysterious when we know how it works?

 

[river]

Life and Life's Intelligence is not about design.

Life is just another form of imperative dynamical existence via mathematical "guiding equations".

Because Life has always existed within it .

We have discussed before that mathematics in and of its self can not create nor influence anything . At All .

What guides the equations is the physical . Periodic Table . Whether you measure any dynamic or not is irrelavent to whether any dynamic will happen , has happened or could happen or not .

 

[Write4U]

Because Life has always existed within it .

No it hasn't.
Quantum fields are not alive. They have the mathematical/physical potential for Abiogenesis and Life.

We have discussed before that mathematics in and of its self can not create nor influence anything . At All .

Ok, you have 3 apples and 4 people. Try to give each person a whole apple. You can stand on your head and you cannot do it.
Your logic is non-mathematically guided by Scripture. The bible says it's possible. "Loaves and fishes" anyone? " Come and get it, there's plenty for everyone!"

What guides the equations is the physical . Periodic Table ;

Noooo, the periodic table is a mathematical instrument. Atomic weights, types, all properly ordered by their mathematical properties. All of science is based the mathematics of that mathematical instrument . Can you produce the physical atoms for viewing?

Whether you measure any dynamic or not is irrelevant to whether any dynamic will happen , has happened or could happen or not .

I bet "Loafs and Fishes" did not physically happen, it's mathematically impossible.

 

[river]

No it hasn't.
Quantum fields are not alive. They have the mathematical potential for Abiogenesis and Life.
Ok, you have 3 apples and 4 people. Try to give each person a whole apple. You can stand on your head and you cannot do it.
Your logic is non-mathematically guided by Scripture. The bible says it's possible. "Loaves and fishes" anyone? "Come and get it, there's plenty for everyone!"
Noooo, the periodic table is a mathematical instrument. I bet "Loafs and Fishes" did not happen, it's mathematically impossible.

Write4U

At some point in your thinking , if not already , you will understand that the physical underpins Everything . Not mathematics . But really you know that already .

 

[Write4U]

Write4U
At some point in your thinking , if not already , you will understand that the physical underpins Everything . Not mathematics . But really you know that already .

Physics is the substance of the universe, mathematics is the essence. You may never have realized that....

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Write4U
At some point in your thinking , if not already , you will understand that the physical underpins Everything . Not mathematics . But really you know that already .

Physics is the substance, mathematics is the essence.

Physics IS the Substance , Physical Things . Mathematics is not the essence . Since it can not create anything . Mathematics is consequence of Three Dimensional Things , Physical Things .

 

[Write4U]

Physics IS the Substance , Physical Things . Mathematics is not the essence . Since it can not create anything . Mathematics is consequence of Three Dimensional Things , Physical Things .

Three dimensions is a mathematical pattern, a geometry. The Universe is a geometrical pattern.
It provides the guiding equations of everything that happens inside it.
Coordinates are mathematical spacetime locations. Physics are mathematical value densities.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
Physics IS the Substance , Physical Things . Mathematics is not the essence . Since it can not create anything . Mathematics is consequence of Three Dimensional Things , Physical Things .

Three dimensions is a mathematical pattern, a geometry. The Universe is a geometrical pattern.
It provides the guiding equations of everything that happens inside it.
Coordinates are mathematical spacetime locations. Physics are mathematical value densities.

To the Universe none of this matters . The Universe is physical , as a consequence it will have three dimensional geometry and patterns . Because it is Physical .

Coordinates , are indeed about space-time ( in space at a certain time ) .

Because of the physics .

If I take away the Physical of Things , there is Nowhere where Mathematics Could Exist .

 

[Write4U]

To the Universe none of this matters .

Oh, the Universe "cares" about the physics?

The Universe is physical , as a consequence it will have three dimensional geometry and patterns . Because it is Physical.

It's pattern is mathematical.

Coordinates , are indeed about space-time ( in space at a certain time ) .

Yes, mathematical coordinates.

Because of the physics .

No the physics are a result of mathematical value densities, patterns.

Quanta are discreet packets of energy values and can only be measured mathematically.

 

[river]

Because of the physics .

No the physics are a result of mathematical value densities, patterns.

Quanta are discreet packets of energy

Closely packed .

Light Energy , in the Universe , Always can be traced back to Physical Sources , Galaxies , Quasars , All the way down .

 

[Write4U]

All the way down .

To quanta.

 

[river]

river said: ↑
All the way down .

To quanta.

Smaller than quanta .

 

[river]

From my post#175

Light Energy , in the Universe , Always can be traced back to Physical Sources , Galaxies , Quasars , All the way down .

Not only light energy , but All Forms of Energy .

The minutest being sub-sub-sub of Atomics .

It has fantastic Acceleration and Speed , therefore kinetic energy . And it is Extremely Cold , minus 273 Kelvin . Minus 400°F . There is little friction at these tempertures .

 

[river]

From my post#173

If I take away the Physical of Things , there is Nowhere where Mathematics Could Exist .

Even a Universe devoid of life , is based on physical things .

 

[Write4U]

From my post#173
If I take away the Physical of Things , there is Nowhere where Mathematics Could Exist .
Even a Universe devoid of life , is based on physical things .

In this universe any dynamical system, living or not, contains a mathematical essence to the dynamical activity.

Even a state of Chaos contains a mathematical potential.

Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the study of chaos — dynamical systems whose apparently random states of disorder and irregularities are actually governed by underlying patterns and deterministic laws that are highly sensitive to initial conditions

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory#

Universal mathematics are the guiding equations in all dynamical systems.