The universal cycloid motion through time.

[nebel]

imho, There can be no question that the universe , we, as latecomers in it, has moved from the Big Beginning through time to the now, and is progressing into the empty future.
In such movement there is no observed interruption, ratcheting; so
how can we experience the zero length, duration "now" moment, the fleeting presence? ( the lag of our nerves of course) but how about inanimate objects?

picture please, all objects with spin, from quarks, to rotating galaxies as in a cycloid motion, always touching with zero velocity, but progressing in their movement through time into the future.
Photons as in a rotating wave, that does not age, former matter stuck in time, in a deep gravity well BH.
a model that fits some situations, but raises questions.

 

[arfa brane]

One of those questions might be: what the hell are you talking about ??

 

[nebel]

One of those questions might be: what the hell are you talking about ??

ab, that is a hot subject, and the devil is in the details, so please
be specific where your understanding does not connect with the topic as defined. briefly:
The rotating Universal Cycloid Explanation of Time, focuses on the "now", the moment that is too short, yet crucial for existence.
The analogy of a rotating wheel is used. A cycloid with a stationary point at cusp, yet steadily moving along, with time it self the unmoved, endless road.
One feature not mentioned in the OP is the recurring feature in the our concept of time, The ticking seconds, celebrated anniversaries. but that marks off our movement, not time itself. A feature of all rotations.
the connection is the now, the cusp of our movement, and there are a lot of hidden and obvious rotations in the universe, all touched by time.
Questions help to define and falsify the concept. Correlation is not causation, but will show the connection. the now. imho.

 

[James R]

imho, There can be no question that the universe , we, as latecomers in it, has moved from the Big Beginning through time to the now, and is progressing into the empty future.

That's our perception of it, certainly.

In such movement there is no observed interruption, ratcheting

That doesn't rule out the possibility of quantisation at very small time scales, which we haven't/can't observe.

how can we experience the zero length, duration "now" moment, the fleeting presence?

As you say, there is always a delay in our nervous system etc., so we never quite experience "now". Also, everything we see at a distance has a time delay as far as perception goes, related to how far away from us it is.

picture please, all objects with spin, from quarks, to rotating galaxies as in a cycloid motion, always touching with zero velocity, but progressing in their movement through time into the future.

Why cycloid? Why not something like a rolling wheel? And touching what? I get it that this is an analogy, but what is rotating in your analogy, and what is stationary, and how do you know it's a cycloid?

Photons as in a rotating wave, that does not age, former matter stuck in time, in a deep gravity well BH.

You seem to have a bunch of separate ideas there. Perhaps try to flesh it out, one idea at a time.

The analogy of a rotating wheel is used. A cycloid with a stationary point at cusp, yet steadily moving along, with time it self the unmoved, endless road.

If time is the road, what is the wheel?

One feature not mentioned in the OP is the recurring feature in the our concept of time, The ticking seconds, celebrated anniversaries. but that marks off our movement, not time itself. A feature of all rotations.

I still don't understand the analogy. Please explain. What do you mean by "our movement" in this context? And how does that relate to rotation, in the analogy?

 

[geordief]

As you say, there is always a delay in our nervous system etc., so we never quite experience "now". Also, everything we see at a distance has a time delay as far as perception goes, related to how far away from us it is.

Is that analogous to the uncertainty principle where a moving object's position is unknowable?

In that scenario the closer we get to knowing its exact motion the further we are from knowing its position.

We also are moving .Perhaps we can never know just where we are-or where "now" is.


Just an analogy?

 

[James R]

Is that analogous to the uncertainty principle where a moving object's position is unknowable?

I was thinking about the finite speed of light, which is the fastest possible speed that any kind of information can travel from one place to another.

I personally think that the uncertainty principle is an indicator that our universe has some fundamental limits about how much information it will let us know simultaneously. But that's another story.

 

[nebel]

That doesn't rule out the possibility of quantisation at very small time scales, which we haven't/can't observe.

I mean not just using smaller intervals, but
if there is a kind of stop and go motion through spacetime would that not imply acceleration, deceleration, tremendous energy expenditures given the mass involved ?

Why cycloid? Why not something like a rolling wheel? And touching what? I get it that this is an analogy, but what is rotating in your analogy, and what is stationary, and how do you know it's a cycloid?

There is mention of all the "rolling wheels " in the universe, the model. from quarks with "spin" to rotating galaxies. "orbiting "electrons even? being in close touch, with "time" as understood as a fundamental first dimension, #1 in the "ALMA" thread. time is stationary, it is the road that the wheel rolls on / in.
Whenever you have wheeling you can perceive a cycloid (see the topic "Velocities cancel. Saturn's equator features trace a prolate cycloidal motion with respect to the sun, the stationary planetary field. -- at noon. ) so. It is proposed here, that there is a smooth, no slip connection between rotating matter and the stationary timespace#1 that matter moves through, into the future. (sorry to bridge topics here)

You seem to have a bunch of separate ideas there. Perhaps try to flesh it out, one idea at a time.

indeed, and I need all the help I can get. questions do that. thank you.

If time is the road, what is the wheel?

Time imho, is the intangible realm that must have existed to accommodate energy, that is uncreated, indestructible. dubbed as: one dimensional, omni dimensional timespace, or energytime. so, "time is not flat, but all embracing, The wheel or wheels (the universe is an all wheel drive) is matter moving through time, touching "time" frictionlessly as at the cusp or cusps of a cycloid.
P.S. In a wheel, all the points on the rim become the zero contact cusp in succession, in an omni- directional medium like "time" (or "unidirectional"), the model would suggest zero contact all the time. all around.

I still don't understand the analogy. Please explain. What do you mean by "our movement" in this context? And how does that relate to rotation, in the analogy?

Sorry, I often carelessly personalize the concept of matter like "we all were in the Big Bang" , (meaning as energy and matter, subject to laws). To relate all this together is the concept that hopefully might crystallize.
The symbolism could be seeing energy (like light) as a rotating wave, or all spins in the universe as "timed" therefore connected to time, perhaps
at some level, there is no existence without "rotation" rolling through "time" like a cycloid.
Time will tell, hopefully

 

[geordief]

was thinking about the finite speed of light, which is the fastest possible speed that any kind of information can travel from one place to another.

I personally think that the uncertainty principle is an indicator that our universe has some fundamental limits about how much information it will let us know simultaneously. But that's another story.

Is it enough to just say that we have a set of "nows" in our sensory apparatus (including the brain) that exist as a models and not as absolute "nows"?

The part of the brain that models and orchestrates the "nows" is probably a "blind spot" as it cannot model itself....(???)...except that I am probably doing just that by trying to understand it.

 

[nebel]

Is it enough to just say that we have a set of "nows" in our sensory apparatus (including the brain) that exist as a models and not as absolute "nows"?

There is probably an appropriate forum for the very fascinating brain functions you, and we all are concerned with.
what happens to the presence of duration, the fleeting time moment in matter that is not sentient? how do we model that? existing in a moment that does not exist, because
it is too short, of zero length? null duration?
That situation is modelled here as the zero movement contact point at the cusp of a cycloid, the place where the rubber hits the road so to speak. A concept where you need to twist your mind around complicated geometric issues.
Fact seems though, we are moving through time, the universe is expanding into the future.

 

[geordief]

existing in a moment that does not exist, because
it is too short, of zero length? null duration

I think "existing" may be a physical process that could in theory be measured in space and time (or whatever is fundamental at that level

I don't see zero anything.Everything is something.
An Nuala o'Faolain wrote in her autobiography "Are you Somebody?"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuala_O'Faolain

 

[nebel]

I don't see zero anything.Everything is something.

I can not think of an analogy to the OPs proposition that fits your highly personalized worldview. A moment in life so short, you could not experience it .
Movement through time is not a thing, moments are fleeting, sometimes you want to be like a wheel on a railroad, the rim which goes actually backward while the train advances. Please google prolate cycloid.
I can think of beautiful happenings in my life where I would like to have lingered, go back in time, linger to savour the beauty, like a train wheel through the grass, flowers that brew between the tracks in my youth, early 1930s.

 

[river]

geordief said: ↑
I don't see zero anything.Everything is something.

Absolutely true .

I can not think of an analogy to the OPs proposition that fits your highly personalized worldview. A moment in life so short, you could not experience it .
Movement through time is not a thing, moments are fleeting, sometimes you want to be like a wheel on a railroad, the rim which goes actually backward while the train advances. Please google prolate cycloid.
I can think of beautiful happenings in my life where I would like to have lingered, go back in time, linger to savour the beauty, like a train wheel through the grass, flowers that brew between the tracks in my youth, early 1930s.

nebel , geordief is right , and is a truth .

 

[nebel]

I don't see zero anything.Everything is something.

when I was referring to ZERO, I meant the velocity at which the cusp of a cycloid touches the surface during its advancement.
There is zero velocity of an ideal wheel, rolling, rotating over a surface, at the contact point. double the velocity at the top.

Even in a river, river, a vortice at the shore, might be at standstill, zero velocity touching the sand. but that does not make the water or the bank nothing, zero.


Our movement through time is like that. for a fleeting moment we seem to hold on to permanent existence.

 

[river]

when I was referring to ZERO, I meant the velocity at which the cusp of a cycloid touches the surface during its advancement.
There is zero velocity of an ideal wheel, rolling, rotating over a surface, at the contact point. double the velocity at the top.

Even in a river, river, a vortice at the shore, might be at standstill, zero velocity touching the sand. but that does not make the water or the bank nothing, zero.


Our movement through time is like that. for a fleeting moment we seem to hold on to permanent existence.

Not for a fleeting moment , but forever .

 

[nebel]

Not for a fleeting moment , but forever .

we exist one fleeting moment at a time, together with the whole universe that moves into the future, "forever" is a promise, prediction that I would only make very carefully.
Energy might be eternal, but our existence very tenuous.
In the meantime, we are in the inevitable touch with time touch in zero length moments. like a wheel on the road.

 

[river]

we exist one fleeting moment at a time, together with the whole universe that moves into the future, "forever" is a promise, prediction that I would only make very carefully.
Energy might be eternal, but our existence very tenuous.
In the meantime, we are in the inevitable touch with time touch in zero length moments. like a wheel on the road.

Our existence , is up to us , not time . Energy is eternal in all its forms . Hot and cold .

 

[nebel]

Our existence , is up to us , not time

When you are in your 10th decade, like I, and decadence sets in, having more time is so important, you can not will yourself into continued existence. If your body ceases to be able to use that eternal energy, is starving (sterben), it is up to us to be gone. Time like energy is eternal, our use of it is limited.
To use the cycloid metaphor: In our movement through time, we continuously are in kind of a rolling contact with that energy (see the topic "are planets harvesting machines?)

 

[river]

When you are in your 10th decade, like I, and decadence sets in, having more time is so important, you can not will yourself into continued existence. If your body ceases to be able to use that eternal energy, is starving (sterben), it is up to us to be gone. Time like energy is eternal, our use of it is limited.
To use the cycloid metaphor: In our movement through time, we continuously are in kind of a rolling contact with that energy (see the topic "are planets harvesting machines?)

Highlighted

Eat good food . As Natural as possible , Organic ultimately . If not , as best as you can afford . Food matters more the older you get . Nutrition matters . At any age , but especially , when your in your fifties , forties , sixties and above .

 

[river]

Time is not necessary for the cycloid motion to exist.

 

[nebel]

Eat good food

especially for your mental diet. also, the less you eat, the longer you live. They starved us during and after WWII . 1 200 calories a day, very little fat and meat. so I can indulge now.

Time is not necessary for the cycloid motion to exist.

Au contraire, Yes it is. Time the first, the fundamental dimension, is the basis, the road, that the wheel of existence rolls on. The cusp of the cycloid, the contact point, where existence and time meet at zero velocity, as the entity moves forward into the future (or not, as in case of the content of a black hole). I venture to say, that
through that imaginary contact between time and existence, --- energy flows. ( vaguely like a Dirac Hole)
Energy, uncreated, undestroyable, that always co existed, of necessity, with eternal time.