*Originally posted by Cris
So at least you admit that Xev does face responsibilities for her actions.*
I'd have admitted that a long time ago, if I'd realized it was an issue.
*But why do you think typical atheists then pretend otherwise? But you are right most typical atheists do face responsibilities for their actions. A good point from you. The pretense part is a bit confusing though.*
The pretense part is in the area of who you are responsible to.
After all, "responsible" means "able to respond," presumably to questions.
While atheists generally do admit to "responsibility," they claim that the questioner does not exist.
Weird, no?
*Of course that also implies that theists clearly do not face responsibilities for their actions since they believe that their imaginary supernatural friend will forgive them anything they do.*
How very useful for you to have picked up on that aspect.
Since the penalty for any infraction is death, Christians (I can't speak for other theists) understand the nonsensibility of paying that price oneself.
Thus, forgiveness allows one to try again.
*That is quite an atrocious attitude as I’m sure you will agree.*
What on earth could I have posted, to make you so "sure" I would agree?
*So how do we convince theists to face up to their responsibilities for their own actions, rather than pretend? Hmm, did you mean to state ‘atheist’ in your opening statement. I think you meant to say ‘theist’ right?*
Nope.
I realize there is a questioner to whom I will give answers.
You pretend there isn't, yet you admit to the questions.
If that isn't the strangest form of pretense, I don't know what is.
*Your attempt at logic is as mystical as ever. Of course I'm sure you'll try to claim that I just can't follow logic. But then I feel no shame in not being able to follow your weird attempts.*
Ahh, such feeble attempts at sarcasm.
However, I will attempt to discuss what appears to be at the root of such attempts.
Let me see... oh, yes, you were claiming to be an atheist, i.e. one who claims not to know whether God exists or not.
You make this claim on the basis that "atheism" means absence of theist belief, as opposed to the belief in the absence of God.
At the same time, you claim to be moral and responsible, where your morality and responsibility are very close to what God demands of us.
Thus, your belief is actually theistic belief combined with belief in the absence of God.
At the same time, you have zero proof that there is no God, which also contradicts your statements that you believe nothing without proof.
I'm not surprised that you cannot follow logic, since to hold such contradictory thoughts is impossibly illogical for a mere mortal man.
*Originally posted by Adam
I hope you only said that for the sake of sophistry. Otherwise... bullshit.*
Oh oh, Cris.
Looks like someone else has seen through your facade.
*Originally posted by Xev
Yay!*
Likewise.
Oddly enough, for the last week or so, your posts have been coming to mind, which is why I thought I'd pop in.
*I don't think you are a Christian, how's that?*
I'd have to admit that your idea of what a Christian is wouldn't match me very closely.
*You actually sound like a typical "Christian" who declares "belief" in Jesus as a way of being forgiven for one's actions.
You see how the argument can be reversed?*
Of course, that's the gospel in a nutshell.
"Repent" means reverse your thinking, turn around, etc.
*I cannot prove that I was raised virtually without theistic influences, thus am unlikely to be an athiest for purely "anti-identification" reasons (as Tiassa would be quick to criticise).*
The "anti-identification" doesn't apply to you.
It applies to the "a" in "atheism."
Thus you are an atheist purely for "anti-identification" purposes simply because there exists a theism which you deny, or "anti-identify" with.
*But you see, Tony, neither can you prove that your motives for belief are sincere.*
Lucky for me, sincerity has nothing to do with it, since Jesus also forgives insincerity.
*I am irresponsible because I don't believe that I will be punished by your God for my unethical actions (your "sins") ,*
"My" God has nothing to do with anything.
If I make up a God, that God won't have any bearing on your life.
You are irresponsible because when you are asked why you didn't believe in God, you will have no answer (the real meaning of "irresponsible").
*but you are responsible because you believe that He will forgive you for your unethical actions?*
I am responsible because I will have an answer why I believe God.
I have already answered, i.e "responded."
