The scientific method

[Seattle]

I have a friend who has a large house out in the countryside. About a month ago he invited a bunch of friends over for dinner (pizza and Dr. Pepper) and also invited everyone to spend the night as it was late and it's way out in the countryside.

I woke up in the middle of the night, the curtains were moving and I saw the shape of a human behind one of the curtains and although "it" didn't actually speak to me, I felt as it if was trying to tell me something.

Now, I don't believe in ghosts but I just want to make sure I understand the scientific method. Something has to be repeatable, right?

The next morning at breakfast several other people mentioned not sleeping well and hearing strange noises and some of them saw the curtains moving just as I had.

I don't pretend to know what was going on, but I do believe that we don't know everything and I'm just asking you guys if I might have seen a ghost and if science, though the scientific method, might not agree in this particular case?

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Your mate may be playing tricks.
Alex

 

[Michael 345]

I felt as it if was trying to tell me something.

But but but you made no effort to find out what???
THAT is strange
Not even a "Can I help you?"

The next morning at breakfast several other people mentioned not sleeping well and hearing strange noises and some of them saw the curtains moving just as I had.

But but but they made no effort to find out what was going on???
THAT is very strange
Not even a "Can I help you?" from any of them

I don't pretend to know what was going on

Good not to pretend

I'm just asking you guys if I might have seen a ghost

No

Something has to be repeatable, right?

100% correct

I do believe that we don't know everything

Correct 100%

and if science, though the scientific method, might not agree in this particular case?

Since there was no scientific method applied in this particular case I'm going to go with no they would not agree

Glad to be of help

 

[Seattle]

But but but you made no effort to find out what???
THAT is strange
Not even a "Can I help you?"

But but but they made no effort to find out what was going on???
THAT is very strange
Not even a "Can I help you?" from any of them

Good not to pretend

No

100% correct

Correct 100%

Since there was no scientific method applied in this particular case I'm going to go with no they would not agree

Glad to be of help

Don't you think that this was more than a coincidence? I mean, what are the odds?

I saw something, it was trying to communicate with me and others saw something similar.

Doesn't this mean that something was repeatable since it happened to other people as well?

I saw a ghost (I guess) so there must be something to the paranormal, don't you think?

I don't believe in ghosts but I saw one. How can you explain this?

 

[Michael 345]

Don't you think that this was more than a coincidence? I mean, what are the odds?

No. I'd go with Alex. Someone playing silly buggers with the lot of your

I saw something, it was trying to communicate with me and others saw something similar.

I find that strange you never yelled out, in fact the way you tell it none of you yelled out, CAN I HELP YOU? or WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE? or HEY YOU PISS OFF

Doesn't this mean that something was repeatable since it happened to other people as well?

No. It was ONE incident of 5 parts (or how many friends involved)
If you mob had the same incident happen again THAT'S a repeat

I saw a ghost (I guess) so there must be something to the paranormal, don't you think?

There you go "guessing". Guessing the lazy persons brain way of getting out of working
"don't you think?" Well suprisingly I do thank you. And I hope I can get to the stage of Critical Thinking
For me a UFO remains a UFO not automatically morphs into IAS (Identified Alien Spacecraft)

I don't believe in ghosts but I saw one. How can you explain this?

And there you go. Your explanation has morphed from a guess to a statement "I saw" with a pre tag to improve its believability "I don't believe in ghost"

In my experience people who say they don't believe in ghost don't believe in ghost
Also they do not jump from "I don't believe in ghost" to "but I saw one"
More like "I don't believe in ghost so I will find out what it was I saw"

As for explaining go through this post to see if you can follow my thought processing

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

Did your host serve mushrooms?

If you think you saw something and coupled with your strange response, as opposed to yelling what the heck are you doing in my bedroom, I would be wondering if I had been given something.
Perhaps try and recall the event again and write it down including how you felt when you got into bed, what you were thinking about as you nodded off.
What did your host say?
If you think about it you seem to reach for a ghost answer, which is odd, whereas being given a drug, or someone messing with you, is somehow out of the ordinary.
Maybe the pizza hut is a front for a LSD lab and you were the victim of cross contamination.
Alex

 

[Xelasnave.1947]

In any event I do think your thread perhaps may have been best placed elsewhere here.
If someone is searching re scientific method and find the thread there is little to explain scientific method.
Alex

 

[KUMAR5]

Don't you think that this was more than a coincidence? I mean, what are the odds?

I saw something, it was trying to communicate with me and others saw something similar.

Doesn't this mean that something was repeatable since it happened to other people as well?

I saw a ghost (I guess) so there must be something to the paranormal, don't you think?

I don't believe in ghosts but I saw one. How can you explain this?

If not trick, this can also happen:

• Complex visual hallucinations (CVH) are also referred to as formed visual hallucinations. CVHs are clear, lifelike images or scenes such as people, animals, objects, etc.
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hallucination

But since others also had similar experience, look like more a trick. Try to check with your friend.

 

[exchemist]

Don't you think that this was more than a coincidence? I mean, what are the odds?

I saw something, it was trying to communicate with me and others saw something similar.

Doesn't this mean that something was repeatable since it happened to other people as well?

I saw a ghost (I guess) so there must be something to the paranormal, don't you think?

I don't believe in ghosts but I saw one. How can you explain this?

If you and others had a similar experience then it certainly sounds like something intriguing and maybe worth further investigating, if you and your friends have the time and interest.

But what you should not do is jump to the conclusion "I saw a ghost".

Strictly speaking, science relies on reproducible evidence, not just repeatable. The difference is that repeatable means getting consistent results several times in the same observation setup with the same observing team, whereas reproducible means consistent results even with a different setup and different observers. The other issue here is what was observed. Another basic part of the scientific method is to record the observations as objectively as possible. So, what exactly did you observe, at what time, did you record it (e.g. on a mobile phone), etc. And ditto for your friends. Also, has the house owner had similar experiences before, or have other guests on other occasions?

If not, then you should try the same thing again and this time be ready to record the events. People just saying they didn't sleep well and that some saw the curtains moving does not constitute good scientific evidence. If there is something real there, you should be able to repeat it.

 

[Yazata]

Now, I don't believe in ghosts but I just want to make sure I understand the scientific method.

I don't think that scientific methodology (whatever that is) is the only plausible or acceptable way of acquiring knowledge in all spheres of life. I know that my scissors are in my drawer by opening my drawer by looking. I can learn what Cicero's views were on academic skepticism by reading his 'Academica'. I can intuit my friend's feelings by talking to her. I can know that some of Poulenc's compositions are spacey by listening to them (especially when stoned). I learn about non-coding RNAs by reading a molecular biology textbook. We have lots of different ways of learning things, ranging from direct intuition, through inference, to testimony of others. (In Indian philosophy, ways of learning things are called 'pramanas' and different philosophical schools differ on how many there are and which can be reduced to others.)

I don't pretend to know what was going on

You seem to have had an anomalous experience. They are far more common than most people want to admit.

I do believe that we don't know everything

I most emphatically agree. I'm reasonably confident that reality still has the ability to surprise us. There isn't any logical reason why everything that happens has to fit into our existing conceptual categories.

and I'm just asking you guys if I might have seen a ghost

Our difficulties often arise in interpreting things, particularly anomalous experiences. There's a long history of people jumping to conclusions regarding experiences like these.

You apparently saw an apparition. Calling it a 'ghost' introduces a bunch of additional associations, such as spirits of deceased individuals. That's where errors might easily slip in. (Maybe what you saw wasn't the spirit of a deceased person.) People see unidentified things in the sky and gratuitously introduce the alien spaceship mythology. Religious miracles seem to involve similar sorts of anomalous experiences interpreted in religious ways.

Are you sure that you were really awake, or were you in that interesting and occasionally weird borderline state between sleep and wakefulness?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

Are you sure that you really saw the figure of a person or was this perhaps an instance of pareidolia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia

 

[Seattle]

No. I'd go with Alex. Someone playing silly buggers with the lot of your



I find that strange you never yelled out, in fact the way you tell it none of you yelled out, CAN I HELP YOU? or WHAT ARE YOU DOING THERE? or HEY YOU PISS OFF



No. It was ONE incident of 5 parts (or how many friends involved)
If you mob had the same incident happen again THAT'S a repeat



There you go "guessing". Guessing the lazy persons brain way of getting out of working
"don't you think?" Well suprisingly I do thank you. And I hope I can get to the stage of Critical Thinking
For me a UFO remains a UFO not automatically morphs into IAS (Identified Alien Spacecraft)



And there you go. Your explanation has morphed from a guess to a statement "I saw" with a pre tag to improve its believability "I don't believe in ghost"

In my experience people who say they don't believe in ghost don't believe in ghost
Also they do not jump from "I don't believe in ghost" to "but I saw one"
More like "I don't believe in ghost so I will find out what it was I saw"

As for explaining go through this post to see if you can follow my thought processing

Are you saying that you talk to ghosts when you see them? I think they are rather intimidating.

 

[Seattle]

Did your host serve mushrooms?

If you think you saw something and coupled with your strange response, as opposed to yelling what the heck are you doing in my bedroom, I would be wondering if I had been given something.
Perhaps try and recall the event again and write it down including how you felt when you got into bed, what you were thinking about as you nodded off.
What did your host say?
If you think about it you seem to reach for a ghost answer, which is odd, whereas being given a drug, or someone messing with you, is somehow out of the ordinary.
Maybe the pizza hut is a front for a LSD lab and you were the victim of cross contamination.
Alex

Are you saying that pizza and Dr. Pepper could have affected my sleep and dreaming process? I reached for a ghost because that's what I saw.

 

[Seattle]

If not trick, this can also happen:
But since others also had similar experience, look like more a trick. Try to check with your friend.

It was no trick. It was either a ghost or an angel.

 

[Seattle]

If you and others had a similar experience then it certainly sounds like something intriguing and maybe worth further investigating, if you and your friends have the time and interest.

But what you should not do is jump to the conclusion "I saw a ghost".

Strictly speaking, science relies on reproducible evidence, not just repeatable. The difference is that repeatable means getting consistent results several times in the same observation setup with the same observing team, whereas reproducible means consistent results even with a different setup and different observers. The other issue here is what was observed. Another basic part of the scientific method is to record the observations as objectively as possible. So, what exactly did you observe, at what time, did you record it (e.g. on a mobile phone), etc. And ditto for your friends. Also, has the house owner had similar experiences before, or have other guests on other occasions?

If not, then you should try the same thing again and this time be ready to record the events. People just saying they didn't sleep well and that some saw the curtains moving does not constitute good scientific evidence. If there is something real there, you should be able to repeat it.

The house owner has had ghosts there before. No one recorded anything on their cell phones but we did all experience similar things at similar times upon reflecting the next morning.

I'm being open minded however as I'm willing to allow that I might have mistaken a ghost for an angel.

 

[exchemist]

The house owner has had ghosts there before. No one recorded anything on their cell phones but we did all experience similar things at similar times upon reflecting the next morning.

I'm being open minded however as I'm willing to allow that I might have mistaken a ghost for an angel.

You mean he or others at the house have encountered phenomena that some people ascribe to ghosts.

That's great! You could really investigate this.

 

[Michael 345]

Are you saying that you talk to ghosts when you see them? I think they are rather intimidating.

1/ I've never seen a ghost so I've never talked to one
2/ I have a plastic film on a large glass patio door. When the light is just right it looks like someone is coming through the open door. What it is is a reflection of me walking past. Yes I have yelled at myself asking what the bloody hell are you doing
3/ If I get a spooky hollow reply THEN ghost will be on the list of my considerations of what the odd reflection is

I think they are rather intimidating.

In what way?

 

[Seattle]

1/ I've never seen a ghost so I've never talked to one
2/ I have a plastic film on a large glass patio door. When the light is just right it looks like someone is coming through the open door. What it is is a reflection of me walking past. Yes I have yelled at myself asking what the bloody hell are you doing
3/ If I get a spooky hollow reply THEN ghost will be on the list of my considerations of what the odd reflection is

In what way?

You wouldn't know, because you have never seen a ghost, only your own reflection. The ghost did speak to me. I only said that I didn't speak to it.

 

[sweetpea]

Don't you think that this was more than a coincidence? I mean, what are the odds?

I saw something, it was trying to communicate with me and others saw something similar.

Doesn't this mean that something was repeatable since it happened to other people as well?

I saw a ghost (I guess) so there must be something to the paranormal, don't you think?

I don't believe in ghosts but I saw one. How can you explain this?

In the sense your using ''repeatable'' ie. others saw it too, then your saying nothing new. Accounts of the Grey Lady who haunts St Thomas's Hospital are numerous.

I'm being open minded however as I'm willing to allow that I might have mistaken a ghost for an angel.

That's all right then, angels do exist. Don't forget midnight mass this Christmas, given your that way inclined.

 

[exchemist]

In the sense your using ''repeatable'' ie. others saw it too, then your saying nothing new. Accounts of the grey lady who haunts St Thomas's hospital are numerous.
That's all right then, angels do exist. Don't forget midnight mass this Christmas, given you are that way inclined.

I shall be there. I love the singing and the sense of occasion, even if I don't take any of literally these days.

 

[sweetpea]

I shall be there. I love the singing and the sense of occasion, even if I don't take any of literally these days.

For a few years I use to go with my Catholic mates and their families to Midnight Mass. Even saturday morning confession and watch them disappear into the box. I'm not even Catholic. I only got away with it because I was a young kid.