The Problem of Suffering

[Spellbound]

When I read the title I wondered why a discussion of C.S. Lewis' "The Problem of Pain" was doing in Eastern Philosophy.

Is it impertinent to suggest that it is precisely pertinent to what y'all are discussing here?

It's in the right subforum.

Transcendence of pain (as opposed to elimination) is an ancient eastern spiritual practice. It causes Nirvana. For elimination of pain, please refer to my thread "Reality as Wonder" by clicking the link above. Even if it's not possible to eliminate the psyche it still makes a fascinating read. Worth studying.

 

[Spellbound]

Interesting fact: while reviewing and reading my thread "Reality as Wonder" my 'I' disappeared for half a minute and once again I saw something that it's being cannot possibly believe - its non-existence. You have to use reason and confidence (as opposed to mere belief and uncertainty) while reading it. YOU CAN INDEED ELIMINATE SUFFERRING! NOW I KNOW FOR SURE!. THE ACTUAL FREEDOM WEBSITE IS NOT MALICIOUS AND DECEPTIVE! IT'S THE VERY OPPOSITE!

 

[Dr_Toad]

I used to use acid, but OK...

 

[anaadi]

It would take a major change of one's consciousness not to suffer due to your daughter being raped and killed. But if they claim this is possible, then maybe so. It just seems some suffering has nothing to do with not believing we are perfect. It seems unavoidable and real. Would not believing you are a self even alleviate such?

Am okay so I don't know much, but I'll give it a try. I think when he says we are all perfect and enlightenment and stuff there a lot more to it. I think enlightenment speaks of being able to detach yourself from reality or basically the physical world, it doesn't however speaks of dying per se, it could mean you exist but without desire, so you see the need to for things to be done and do it without having and interior motive, and when you think of it we all have interior motives whether good of bad. So in the situation with someone's daughter being raped and killed, i think the detachment is being able to accept that rape only happens to the physical body, it is an element of the physical world, that her soul is perfectly fine and that while she is not there physically she never cease to exist, not simply as a soul but as a part of you as all souls are connected. Hope you understand what i mean.

 

[C C]

Christianity starts with sin, the commission of which banishes man from his paradisical state. Buddhism starts with suffering, and the observation that all of us suffer. Christianity's answer to the question of suffering is free will, although it's not an answer that really solves the problem. What is Buddhism's answer to the problem of suffering? Is suffering even solvable, or is it something we just need to accept in our lives?

Suffering is just the consequence of being what we are or staying what we are: Vulnerable beings. Whereas an advanced robot could selectively or wholly deactivate its damage receptors, interests, passions, goals, concern for others and somatic needs whenever it found itself in a lengthy, torturous situation or moral dilemma / maze. That is, consign certain or all personal characteristics of itself to hibernation until the ordeal was over (if ever).

For a human to become so invincible (or detached) means similar downgrading: An organic robot reduced to obeying its most rudimentary formal system or biological functioning. No longer making decisions or choices outside a scheme, no longer having particular uniqueness, being completely orthodox with the natural world at a primeval level. Becoming zombie, becoming rock, becoming driftwood.

Thus the Buddhist monk who can causally pour gasoline over his body and burn himself alive out of protest. Beforehand mentally dissolving himself into the indifference and insensitivity of mundane matter. Reduced to an invincible robot tool so as to ironically make a point about the final item it considered important when it was still a susceptible person.

 

[Devil-Tiger]

I really did not mean that as an insult, it was just the way it was written struck me as funny.

Buddhism says that life is suffering because we are all deluded. Christianity says we are all inherently evil and need Jesus to wash away that evil. Buddhism on the other hand says that we are all inherently perfect and with out flaw and simply need to realize it. I say simply realize it but it is not simple, Buddhist strive mightily to come to this realization. This is not just a simple intellectualization, it is a deep and profound understanding that we are perfect. The realization is called awakening or enlightenment. A typical exclamation at the moment of enlightenment is something to the effect of "All beings are inherently perfect!"

Supposedly someone who is enlightened no longer experiences the suffering of life.

I think that someone who is enlightened no longer experiences the suffering of unfettered desire, and has let go of the need of feeding ones ego as a centerpoint of life. The statement that "life itself is suffering", in my humble opinion, itself is a Koan. It drives you toward a personal dialectic where you argue and dialogue with yourself about truth, suffering, desire, Buddhism itself, etc. Using reductive reasoning most people start cutting through their own illusions, but suffer from further illusions that they are becoming enlightened. You don't have to be a physicist to know water is wet. Yet there are vast mechanisms at play to get you to the place of recognizing water on your skin. It is the experience one must truly seek, hence why Zen Koans are spoken about mythically as instantly creating enlightenment. If you are in that experience, and allow it to be just that, an experience - perhaps that is the beginning of letting go of illusion. There are many overly simplistic and many overly complicated views of Buddhism - with every new Guru on the block claiming they have found the doorway to enlightenment. Given that it is a personal journey, with each person experiencing their own path to the top of the mountain, whatever makes sense to you at the time, is the truth for you. Then as you grow and change, those views change and you let go of the "illusions of truth(s)" you possessed at an earlier time. The shedding of the prior truths as you journey is in itself, part of becoming enlightened.

Humbly,

DT

 

[Devil-Tiger]

What is Buddhism's answer to the problem of suffering? Is suffering even solvable, or is it something we just need to accept in our lives?

Eastern philosophy and social mechanisms accept duality of opposites as possible. The yin/yang symbol is the most simplistic example. Life is suffering, and suffering is life. They are intertwined until you are able to transcend both at once. Letting go of one is letting go of the other, hence the example of the Buddhist monk self-immolating out of protest. To step beyond both life and suffering allows them to self-immolate. Shedding even the flesh as a symbol of the impermanence of the passing moment.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Christianity starts with sin, the commission of which banishes man from his paradisical state. Buddhism starts with suffering, and the observation that all of us suffer. Christianity's answer to the question of suffering is free will, although it's not an answer that really solves the problem. What is Buddhism's answer to the problem of suffering? Is suffering even solvable, or is it something we just need to accept in our lives?

Buddha said that life is suffering.

jan.

 

[spidergoat]

Christianity starts with sin, the commission of which banishes man from his paradisical state. Buddhism starts with suffering, and the observation that all of us suffer. Christianity's answer to the question of suffering is free will, although it's not an answer that really solves the problem. What is Buddhism's answer to the problem of suffering? Is suffering even solvable, or is it something we just need to accept in our lives?

Buddhism doesn't have to answer for suffering, since there is no God necessary to the religion. Suffering is a product of having nerve endings and a necessity to avoid certain actions that could damage a body. Buddhism's answer has to do with the mental aspect of suffering. We often suffer unnecessarily due to our own thought processes, and he allegedly had a process that could lead to overcoming this.

 

[river]

The problem with suffering is that for the individual it seems never ending. And empathy for an individual is lacking.

For a country, suffering is a lack of empathy for the people.

 

[kmguru]

Christianity starts with sin, the commission of which banishes man from his paradisical state. Buddhism starts with suffering, and the observation that all of us suffer. Christianity's answer to the question of suffering is free will, although it's not an answer that really solves the problem. What is Buddhism's answer to the problem of suffering? Is suffering even solvable, or is it something we just need to accept in our lives?

I go for the Free Will....and that is no different from Buddhism in "sungam" discussions using reincarnation and understanding....

Both are good...we just do not know much about how this works at this technology level. Just do some Deep Meditation, it will clarify the thoughts...

 

[Bowser]

I once read a story about a woman who was grieving the death of a child. She approached a monk with the dead child in her arms, asking him to give the child life. The monk instructed her to go to the nearby village and knock on each door until she found a home that had not experienced death, only then would he revive her child. Knocking on doors, she could not find any house that had not lost at least one family member.

Not very eloquent in my telling, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

 

[river]

I once read a story about a woman who was grieving the death of a child. She approached a monk with the dead child in her arms, asking him to give the child life. The monk instructed her to go to the nearby village and knock on each door until she found a home that had not experienced death, only then would he revive her child. Knocking on doors, she could not find any house that had not lost at least one family member.

Not very eloquent in my telling, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Why did you think it this story was worth mentioning?

 

[Bowser]

Why did you think it this story was worth mentioning?

It seemed relevant to the topic.

 

[river]

It seemed relevant to the topic.

But is it?

 

[Bowser]

"The Problem of Suffering"? Yes.

 

[Rajagopals]

Christianity starts with sin, the commission of which banishes man from his paradisical state. Christianity's answer to the question of suffering is free will, although it's not an answer that really solves the problem.

Good question for Eastern Philosophy section.

I thought, as per Bible, God created mankind in his own image and breathing into his nostrils the breath of life (Genesis 2:7). Now the first thing man did was to try expel the divine breath that God shared. Since God was so powerful, it took quite few many years of efforts of man to leave this divine breath for ever (when he died). "the soul who sins shall die” (Ezekiel 18:4). Is the sin is about not keeping the divine breath of God inside man? Does Eastern Philosophy teach any methods to keep the divine breath in, if not at least to cycle it and avoid the break at the top and end? If yes, let us learn that and sin no more.

What is Buddhism's answer to the problem of suffering?

From what I have seen, almost all form of Eastern Philosophy teachings suggest keeping a very balanced state of mind - you are required to keep your free expression of feelings under control. Like avoid being too happy and equally too sad. This act, as per Buddhism elimination of ignorance and craving, will lead to a balanced state of mind (hopefully ). It is more like training your amygdalas to switch off and it's need to cognitive processing.

Since the extreme of anything is the opposite of that (positive ends when negative starts), instead of calming down your mind, if you equally train to express all your true feelings in its own natural ways (or even a lot more than that) this should also end in training your mind to switch off (turn off cognitive capacity). Avadhootha culture of free willed holy people are classic examples of such a practice.

In both cases you (at least your brain) should achieve the state of liberation from the petty affairs of day to day life and help sentient beings end their suffering by liberating their mind to use its full potential to explore the beyond.

If Buddhism prove that elimination works, then it is equally proving that the opposite (embracing your true self and its free willed expressions) also works towards Nirvana.

Is suffering even solvable, or is it something we just need to accept in our lives?

Shi happens in life, more so to souls who are in the final lap of their journey to the next best cycle ever. You don't have to suffer anything bad, no need to accept any suffering. Accept your true self, take charge of the situation, accept a mistake, make the change, kick some butts, be human, a good one at it. Enjoy the little things, the wind, the weather, the earth, your mother, the sea (by the way did any one told you taking bath in salt water is one way to get rid of bad luck?) and what not. Almost all forms of diseases are curable these days, more so by changing your basic diet. Biorhythms change over a period of time, so does your good luck. Keep yourself very happy and your mind and soul will naturally perceive a good version of life (and the tangible things in it) by itself.

Enough said, I did my free willed expressions for today

 

[spidergoat]

If yes, let us learn that and sin no more.

It's called being innocent and free from guile like animals are. Thinking is what causes all our problems. There is nothing you can do about this because that would also be the product of thought. Some people mysteriously fall into liberation, I don't know why.

 

[Rajagopals]

It's called being innocent and free from guile like animals are. Thinking is what causes all our problems. There is nothing you can do about this because that would also be the product of thought. Some people mysteriously fall into liberation, I don't know why.

Even though it is not yet scientifically proven, but it is assumed that ordinarily animals cannot think of the divine (God) and purpose its life aligning with that big free will. Thinking do not cause any problems, I even assume it help resolve problems, what causes problem is the assumption of mind about reality based on the outcomes of some of our thoughts. Since thoughts are not real (at least for ordinary people), based on the results of our non-realistic thoughts we perceive future events with highest possible outcome – some of which we like and some of which we don’t. Positive thinking (that all is well and only good things are going to happen) can help us perceive future in a positive way and help reduce stress and fight negative emotions associated with cognitive perceptions – all with the help of more dopamine in the brain.

‘Tickle your Amygdala’ by Neil Slade presented a crude version of the accidental clicking of mind to its most ambitious state. Eastern Philosophy (EP) structures this clicking based on a progressive and clearly documented methods of Pranayama and breathing techniques. Even EP can take you only to a certain level beyond which your Guru is going to let you enjoy the results of your practice and God would have also blessed you with a clear mind that perceive things in its most appropriate truthful form (that is why it is also called Sathya [truth] Vidya [knowledge]). Knowing is different to being one with God, enlightenment is beyond normal state of brain – that is when they confirm mummified monk is ‘not dead’ and in rare meditative state. Since you learned to connect your consciousness to the whole universe and its knowledge of everything, this state is never ending and it imparts you the pleasure of knowledge (like we feeling good when we watch a movie or TV or surf internet).

This open another chapter of is consciousness different from brain and its powers? Prana (as it is mentioned in EP) is closely attached to the divine breath and it gets in to the human body when you are in mom’s tummy, gets triggered when you get your first breath of air. Since Prana is the most important aspect of life, it is attached to body in 5 forms. Normal death releases these 5 Prana’s in progressive phases, leaving clear signs of departure. Even brain dead patient bodies are conscious. Some dead people come back alive, since consciousness decides to get back the prana which went out. Yogis can walk out of their body and get back when they want.

To put things simple, there are lot of things within our body which is already beyond our brain and its capacity to understand. This accidental clicking of Amygdala or adhomugha (अधोमुघ) to urdhamugha (उर्धमुघ) state of mind is a mere switch – some get it via Guru’s blessing, some get it via a structured practice of meditation, some get it via some sexual (tantra) practice or you get that magic mushroom from Himalayas

 

[spidergoat]

I don't believe any practice brings enlightenment, because there is no such thing. There is only the natural state of functioning of the body which cultural conditioning at some point in human history caused to fall into disfunction. You may say that thinking solves problems, but I disagree. Those problems only came about because of thought, and so cannot be solved by thought. Any correlation with some spiritual practice is coincidental.