The Pledge of Allegiance (USA)

Reintroduce the Pledge of Allegiance (with Nazii-like salute)?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No

    Votes: 5 100.0%
  • Total voters
    5
M

Michael

歌舞伎
Valued Senior Member
Should American Government Schools reintroduce the Nazi-like salute and Pledge of Allegiance like American children were trained to do in the 1930s?

american-school-children-bellamy-salute.jpg


From WIKI
In 1940 the Supreme Court, in Minersville School District v. Gobitis, ruled that students in public [Government] schools, including the respondents in that case, Jehovah's Witnesses who considered the flag salute to be idolatry, could be compelled to swear the Pledge. A rash of mob violence and intimidation against Jehovah's Witnesses followed the ruling.
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I pledge allegiance to the Flag
of the United States of America,
and to the Republic for which it stands,
one Nation under God, indivisible,
with liberty and justice for all.​


[video=youtube;m3a1DEoB59k]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3a1DEoB59k[/video]
 
I'm against the pledge in general. It's propaganda at its finest, trained into preschoolers before they can even understand the words, and after that peer pressure sets in. Sure, kids can not say it and not be punished now, but peer pressure at that age is far stronger than most have confidence to fight.

Why can't we recite something more meaningful, like the preamble to the Constitution?
 
I agree. I can actually remember marching out to the front of our school in assembly and saying The Pledge. The big controversy in my time was the words 'under God'. We also did The Pledge in our classrooms (depending on the grade level).

I wonder what the Government Educators thought about having us 8 year olds reciting Allegiance to the Flag at the time? Particularly as it wasn't really all that long since the last War in Vietnam.
 
Rhaedas said:
Or this:

B-EarthPledgeAllleg2.gif
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Nice :D


If we had to have a pledge that'd be the one :)



But, TTYTT I prefer real education to a pledge any day. My friend worked for numerous years in green energy and recently moved to GMO foods. I asked why? He said no one actually bought the Green Energy. They say they want it, but when they go to the pump, they want what's cheapest. GMO food they say they don't want - but when they go to the store, they buy what's cheapest.
 
The 'Under God' often gets the big headline, but even without it, it's still a coerced recitation. It's one of those things where it's been done for so long, no one questions it, because "we've always done it". And of course the McCarthyism helped drive that in further, so even suggesting not having it makes someone unpatriotic. Like reciting a phrase determines someone's loyalty or feeling for something.

These days there's so little time in school anymore to actually learn anything anyway. Any time regained would be a bonus.
 
Rhaedas said:
True point. Maybe to keep the rhythm? Maybe they're stated in order of importance. :)
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I can see that. Flora first, then fauna, then humans :D
Actually, I think separately mentioning humans is out of place in that context. It betrays humanity's self-importance.
 
As an outsider its always seemed scary, like they are indoctrinating you to follow and obey rather than question

Its like that Kennedy quote "Ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"

Community service (as opposed to national service) is great BUT a country (and any form of community) exists to serve its members, not the other way around and its to easy to forget that, you SHOULD be questioning what your government is doing for you and the community not blindly following the way Bush wanted and that quote implies. Its always baffled me why that quote came from a left of center (for you) president when it would have fit so much better coming from the mouth of a right winger
 
In my younger school days we said the Pledge with our hands over our heart. No Nazi salute. And I say,yes. I say bring the pledge back like I was taught with the hand over the heart. It don't specify which god. But the USA was founded by religious believers. So our country should not IMO have a separation between church an state either. It should be left to the states. Not the federal government to determine the religion used. And maybe they should find some ways to incorporate many religions at one time.
 
R1D2 said:
In my younger school days we said the Pledge with our hands over our heart. No Nazi salute. And I say,yes. I say bring the pledge back like I was taught with the hand over the heart.
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Salute or not, it doesn't change my point.

It don't specify which god. But the USA was founded by religious believers. So our country should not IMO have a separation between church an state either.
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Believers or not, they went out of their way to make sure that the country was a secular one, because they had seen in Europe what happens without that separation. And I'd say that lately, we're seeing some signs of it as well.

It should be left to the states. Not the federal government to determine the religion used. And maybe they should find some ways to incorporate many religions at one time.
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How about what it set in the Constitution now, that the government can't dictate anything, and you can choose to believe whatever you want?
 
How about what it set in the Constitution now, that the government can't dictate anything, and you can choose to believe whatever you want?
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It was only about 4 yrs ago that reactionaries were complaining that Obama didn't sport the dorky US flag lapel pins that the Bushies wore like their Iron Cross. I think the Pledge is a Cold War relic that needs to go to the same trash heap where Romney found his claim that Russia and China are our greatest enemies. Out past the piles of school prayers, the old John Birch Society trash, the indoctrination newsreels, and -- well, I was going to say the robes and hoods but I see scavengers dug them up for their Romney celebrations. Hopefully, anyway, after the reactionary Apology Tour is over we can celebrate by torching stupid old ideas in a clean-burning incinerator, harnessing the energy, and using it to produce windmills and solar collectors. Then it's back to coffeehouse poetry, body art and a new beat with new lyrics that basically say we won't be fooled again.
 
Intentions are only as good as the deeds that you do. So what you do in your life is what your intentions lead you to. Many people can take an oath but they can easily lie about it and do whatever they wish. As an example look at religion, some say do unto others but look around and what has history taught us about that ?
 
Denying one's intentions, making an effort to not be aware of them, or state intentions that one doesn't have - these are not a meaningful alternative to actually being clear about one's intentions.
 
Intentions of who? The people who control others with propaganda? Or those who believe the propaganda themselves?
 
honestly there is nothing wrong with giving kids a sense of national pride but I agree we need to be careful it doesn't fall over into propaganda, I never had a problem saying the pledge of allegiance when I was a kid. I respect my flag and my country, it's not perfect but it is my home.
 
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