The New Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religion Archives' started by Tiassa, Jan 6, 2004.

  1. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Jesus built my hotrod?

    At any rate, the Jefferson City News Tribune reports that a 29 year-old man first disrupted a worship service at Life Christian Center in Sunset Hills, Missouri, by claiming to be Jesus Christ. He brought a box, which he wished to present to the church's pastor, but was denied access to Pastor Rick Shelton. The man left the church before police arrived.

    He then got in his car and drove it into the church:
    Savior, heal thyself?

    Dunno ... there's not much to say, but I thought it worth sharing anyway.
     
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  3. davewhite04 Valued Senior Member

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    Hiya Tiassa,

    This would probably be better suited to the human science sub-forum, as it seems like this man has suffered some sort of manic episode which involved feelings of grandeur. This is actually quite common and predicted in the bible (So maybe this article is in the correct sub-forum).

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2004
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  5. Votorx Still egotistic... Valued Senior Member

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    2 simple words to descrive why he did it:

    publicity
    insanity
     
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  7. Yes Registered Senior Member

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    What was in the box?
     
  8. CounslerCoffee Registered Senior Member

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    It's like in Pulp Fiction, you never find out what's in the brief case. Samuel Jackson just says that it's his bosses dirty laundry...

    On the other hand, I doubt Jesus would come back as a crazed man with road rage. It just doesn't make sense (Or does it?).

    Ah well, repent! The end is near!
     
  9. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    If I remember correctly didn't the Jews think that Jesus had a messiah complex as well
     
  10. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Here's an odds-and-ends question: Without religion, would he have eventually run a car into some building someday?

    In the end, there's not much of a religious story inherent in the topic. But ... you know ... there's potsherds to be picked from the lot:
    Well, the interior liner notes for Globe of Frogs, by Robyn Hitchcock & The Egyptians, contain various speculations on whether the Devil has a walkman and what if the antichrist is really just Jesus, all revved up and pissed off after spending two-thousand years in a dreary, cheesecloth-draped waiting room. Or something approximately like that. Peter Straub, in his collection Houses Without Doors casts a shadowy savior strolling through the shadows, marking buildings with a bloody palmprint. Ray Bradbury is one of my favorites; Graveyard for Lunatics casts Jesus Christ as a drunk actor kept in the business by an insane plastic surgeon, so to speak.

    In a country where Jesus is alleged to be in a televised house of the holy, where the spirt moves a multibillion-dollar industry, in churches that hide their darkest scandals in whispered secrecy, alongside the ugly, shouting, angry preacher on the urban streetcorner ... well, who's to say that Jesus didn't already come back as a child-molesting, gun-toting failed rock and roll musician?

    God works in mysterious ways.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2004
  11. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    If biblical person "jesus" were to exist in modern day, do you think he could avoid the same kind of scrutiny regarding his sanity? I'm pretty sure if jesus showed up now he'd probably end up in the same position as this dude. Not necessarily in a car in a church, but definately viewed as a nut job.

    On that note, what is to say that the jesus of the bible wasn't clinically insane?
     
  12. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    Jesus will not return as a mere man. That is made clear by the New Testament.

    If you think that He was a mortal lunatic, you mustn't believe a whit of it. If you don't believe any of it, I don't see the use of you starting a discussion about it. It's not as though any new resolution is going to come of it; claiming Jesus was a maniac is just as much a leap of faith as claiming He was the "son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven"(Daniel 7:13). At this point in time, there is no way to definitively prove either of those stances.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2004
  13. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    /Jesus will not return as a mere man. That is made clear by the New Testament.

    Not much of a fan but I don't doubt the bible says that. What does it say? If he comes back is that armaggeden or whatever? I've forgotten I suppose. Seems like I used to know that. Hmm. Regardless, is the "second coming" the end of all things? Do all christian sects agree on that?

    /If you think that He was a mortal lunatic, you mustn't believe a whit of it.

    Well, I don't know if he was crazy. I'd say he would be judged as such by today's standards cast upon the little I know of things he supposedly said back then. "I am the light and the way" or whatever? LOL. He'd be the light and the way straight to the mental hospital I'd think. Of course I suppose according to these legends he has god on his side so, maybe god could keep him out of the nut house. Hmm. Well you know if he could do a trick though I suppose people might let him out anyway. If he could turn stuff into other stuff and stuff, then people might buy it. He'd have to withstand hardcore scientific scrutiny and likely be the target in a number of international interestes, but yeah I guess it's mixing apples and oranges a bit? Hmm.

    /If you don't believe any of it, I don't see the use of you starting a discussion about it.

    You don't think it's a reasonable possibility? Seems that way to me, that was the use. I was thinking about that idea and it seemed plausible so I'd put it out there to see what other people think. I mean, a really charming crazy person 2000 years ago might have been able to do who knows what. *shrug**

    /It's not as though any new resolution is going to come of it; claiming Jesus was a maniac is just as much a leap of faith as claiming He was the "son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven"(Daniel 7:13).

    What if it's a "new resolution" to someone besides yourself?
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2004
  14. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    Whether or not the Second Coming is the end itself would depend on what one considers the beginning of the end.
    I will not elaborate on that, but I will provide scripture concerning the Son as He will be in those days.

    "At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth and the ends of the heavens."
    ~Mark 13:26-27~

    I believe that this indicates that He will come as a divinity and will gather not only the living but also the dead elect, whose ashes would have been long scattered to the "ends of the heavens" in the "four winds".
    A human being would certainly not be capable of that.

    If you wish to know a few more details, this might be helpful:

    "... and among the lampstands was someone 'like a son of man'... His head and hair were white like wool, white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters."
    ~Revelations 1:13-15~

    Bear in mind that this is a line from Revelations, and might mean merely that the Son appeared in this form to John alone. However, I take it to mean that this is how the Son appears to mortals. This is, perhaps, not the best 'exempli gratia,' but it is the first which came to my mind.

    God is not without His designs, and He surely orchestrated the events of the Gospels in the time which was most proper for them.

    I believe that as man grows harsher, stronger, and less conscious of his own fragility, the coming of God, not a human as before, will be proper.
    Note that, in this prophesied future, He will not be coming to forgive, as once He did. It will be vastly different, though specifics are hard to tell.


    There is no tangible evidence that Jesus existed as scripture describes Him. In that you propose He was insane, you imply that He was ungodly, and, in doing so, you might as well propose that He never existed at all.
    It is as baseless a belief as any of them.

    It's not as though I can argue against you successfully or happily. On your grounds, my belief in Jesus' sanity is probably quite baseless, and I understand that.

    What I'm getting at here is that any discussion on Jesus' possible sanity or insanity is a conflict of irrational beliefs, something that will likely prove bleak and unfulfilling to all parties.
    Truthfully, most theological debates between nonbelievers and believers are.

    Perhaps there are some that might benefit.
    I'm not sure though. Most browsers here seem quite decidedly entrenched to me.
     
  15. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    /It's not as though I can argue against you successfully or happily. On your grounds, my belief in Jesus' sanity is probably quite baseless, and I understand that.

    That is an excellent point, well put.

    /What I'm getting at here is that any discussion on Jesus' possible sanity or insanity is a conflict of irrational beliefs, something that will likely prove bleak and unfulfilling to all parties.

    I agree with you there too. Sadly, I didn't even see how "cruising for a fight" that could look. It just occured to me so I wanted to discuss it. Well, I'm not trying to drag nuthin down. It seemed important when I thought it! Hehe. Pardon. It's funky how easy it is to say something that is baitingish without realizing it. I'm certainly not interested in fighting. To me that seems like a good point. Hrmph. I guess it is to me but yeah not so much to you. I guess the idea that current definitions of mental disease type stuff applie in retrospect would have some huge effect I'd think, and then I get off thinking about some weird little time travel movie I make up in my head and just figure that by mentioning jesus's sanity given today's standards people get to see a similar little weird time-travel movie and it's cool. You know, like if Jesus had never been the star of the bible? Would someone else have gotten the same thing? Was it real? Was it just luck? Could it have been that society itself demanded a messiah so in a sense they made one up for themselves? So many interesting sociological/religious impact kidn of questions. Isn't that kind of thing pertinent to the thread? It seemed that way when I posted it. Hrmph.

    You have a good point though, my angle could have sent it spiraling downwards quickly. I wonder how to avoid such a thing. I suppose I should try to frame the question better. It seems nuetral to me though as I don't believe, disbelieve nor care about the jesus in a physical existence or personal belief kind of way, but find the impact of religions on society and humans (including a bunch of my family members whom I care about dearly) to be most fascinating. I'm writing this as somewhat of a note to myself that I hope to revisit to think about communication issues. Pardon for the indulgance.

    /Truthfully, most theological debates between nonbelievers and believers are.

    LOL. Yeah I suppose it depends on where you're willing to stretch for meaning, but you do have a point.

    I dunno I can annoyingly see it both ways. From one way it looks to me like it's a pointless endeavor, but another way it seems to be a great way to explore the ideas surrounding the issues. Even if you have ideas about this that or the other, it's cool to wash them through the ringer.. see if they hold up. Seems like maybe the fabric is always still there but sometimes you might get new buttons or patch something up ya know? Depends on the flavor of thinking you like I suppose.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2004
  16. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    as i posed before didn't the Jews think Jesus to be a fraud or someone who had a messiah complex thus insane?
     
  17. wesmorris Nerd Overlord - we(s):1 of N Valued Senior Member

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    OH, I didn't catch that. Pardon.
     
  18. Rappaccini Redoubtable Registered Senior Member

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    Wesmorris

    I didn't always have the convictions I now hold, and, once upon a time, I would use contrived conundrums like this one to vilify Christianity and alienate its members.

    Actually, I would more often use more ontological arguments, all to the effect of powerful scepticism, Solipsism even, but it is no matter.

    I was just calling it, not you, down, and I was, perhaps, a little too eager to do so.



    As to the Pharisees and Saducees and their view of Jesus, I believe that they thought Him a competitor, not a madman.
     
  19. Quantum Quack Life's a tease... Valued Senior Member

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    I am sure that the Jews at the time were having great difficulty in coming to terms with the enigma that was Jesus, an even to day this continues.
     
  20. SwedishFish Conspirator Registered Senior Member

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    if we assume the predictions of "jesus's return" are true (coughcough)...it seems to me that a man born in israel who becomes a leader to the israelites and finally wins them an israeli state by defeating palestine (and it has to stick) would then be celebrated and possibly go down in israeli lore as 'the messiah'.
     
  21. jcarl Starving...Why Wait? Registered Senior Member

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    Many believe, myself included, that this will be how the AntiChrist will come about. I believe that he will be the spearhead behind a peace between the Israelis and Palestinians.(Daniel 9 talks a lot about this)
     

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