The Great Restroom Debate!

[Bowser]

The Trump steps into the Great Bathroom debate:

Trump is full of surprises. I think that's why people like him.

 

[Bowser]

If it looks like a woman, and talks like woman, and thinks like woman, it must be woman then, right? She IS using the appropriate restroom. I sure wouldn't feel comfortable with her in my men's restroom. And alot of men probably wouldn't either.

Would you feel the same about a transgender woman--a woman who thinks she's a man?

 

[Magical Realist]

Would you feel the same about a transgender woman--a woman who thinks she's a man?

Absolutely. I'm totally comfortable about transgender men using the men's restroom. It's a non issue.

 

[Bowser]

You have totally made up a lifestyle that doesn't exist and wish to use that as an excuse to what? commit transgender people to insane asylums? How many people are there running around claiming to be dead presidents? Can they function well in other areas of their life? Are they a threat to themselves or to others? Standard psych evals apply. So what's your point?

I never suggested asylums for transgender people, though psychotherapy might be helpful. I posted a link to "otherkin" the other day. I just thought it would be interesting to see how far the fluid identity idea might take us.

 

[Bowser]

Absolutely. I'm totally comfortable about transgender men using the men's restroom. It's a non issue.

Yet a guy in a dress using the men's restroom would bother you? Granted, I would take a second look to verify what I was seeing, but if it walked up to the urinal and pulled up its dress, my question would be answered.

 

[Daecon]

Psychotherapy might be helpful for you to get over your bigotry.

 

[Magical Realist]

I never suggested asylums for transgender people, though psychotherapy might be helpful. I posted a link to "otherkin" the other day. I just thought it would be interesting to see how far the fluid identity idea might take us.

So you're going to have law mandated psychotherapy for all transgender people for a condition that the DSM-5 doesn't even classify as a mental disorder? Sounds like the beginning of concentration camps to me.

 

[Magical Realist]

Yet a guy in a dress using the men's restroom would bother you? Granted, I would take a second look to verify what I was seeing, but if it walked up to the urinal and pulled up its dress, my question would be answered.

A woman trapped in a man's body who looks just like a woman would bother me in the bathroom. But I'm sure they'd just use the stall. I'd worry more for her safety than anything else. Lots of hatecrimes are committed against transgender women by men who think like you do.

 

[Bowser]

So you're going to have law mandated psychotherapy for all transgender people for a condition that the DSM-5 doesn't even classify as a mental disorder? Sounds like the beginning of concentration camps to me.

I said it might be helpful, not mandatory. Here's a site that might show you the other side of the transgender issue...
http://www.sexchangeregret.com/
It's promoted by a guy who lived the life. Don't take my word for it, listen to someone who knows the facts.

 

[Magical Realist]

I said it might be helpful, not mandatory. Here's a site that might show you the other side of the transgender issue...
http://www.sexchangeregret.com/
It's promoted by a guy who lived the life. Don't take my word for it, listen to someone who knows the facts.

LOL! I've already watched that one you've posted before. Neurotic self-hatred is hard to watch the first time, much less again. So what does this prove? That sometimes people make mistakes? So what?

 

[DaveC426913]

As I said before, if a guy wants to wear a dress and act like a woman, he certainly can.

Bowser, its easy to build up stereotypes of people that you've never met in-person. When blacks were a rarity, people stereotyped them as all sorts of unflattering things too, with animalistic behavior and all sorts of other preconceptions. Turns out, blacks are people, just like you and me.

I have a close friend who is trans-gendered, and I can assure you, she is as fully 3-dimensional a person as you or I. She has hopes, dreams, fears, hobbies, aspirations and quirks. She is not a pervert, she is not weird. And as a matter of act, she does not typically dress like a woman. She dresses in t-shirts and jeans, like you or I might. She is far, far more happy now that her outside gender is reconciled what who she has been since she was 5 years old. Yes, she was 5 years old - as soon as she first became aware of the difference between boys and girls - she knew she was a girl.

We're talking about people; you're talking about cardboard cutouts.

 

[Bowser]

I don't think his story is exclusive to all cases, but it does suggest the wisdom of careful consideration. Please, don't mutilate your body...

 

[DaveC426913]

I said it might be helpful, not mandatory. Here's a site that might show you the other side of the transgender issue...
http://www.sexchangeregret.com/
It's promoted by a guy who lived the life. Don't take my word for it, listen to someone who knows the facts.

Yup. they come in a range, like everything. And they make choices and live with the consequences.

I know a guy who studied music in school and now regrets it. Would you have all aspiring musicians go to psychotherapy to make "better" choices - lest they regret them?

 

[DaveC426913]

It's the world you are advocating. I think we are on a downward slide. But the future belongs to the young.

A downward slide? To individuals having more freedom to live the life they choose? To have the right to pursue happiness? Isn't that the definition of an enlightened society?

Or would you prefer to return to a time when your life, status, livelihood, wife and even vocation were determined for you? Is that a better society in your eyes?

 

[Bowser]

Yup. they come in a range, like everything. And they make choices and live with the consequences.

I know a guy who studied music in school and now regrets it. Would you have all aspiring musicians go to psychotherapy to make "better" choices - lest they regret them?

Does studying music require drastic surgery? Do those who study music suffer a 41% suicide rate among their peers?

 

[Bowser]

A downward slide? To individuals having more freedom to live the life they choose? To have the right to pursue happiness? Isn't that the definition of an enlightened society?

Or would you prefer to return to a time when your life, status, livelihood, wife and even vocation were determined for you? Is that a better society in your eyes?

There is no law dictating what a person can pursue in search of happiness. Never have I dictated what a person can and can't be. I've simply stated how I view them from my perspective. Yep, you're free to be a woman, man, child, dog, cat, duck, whatever your heart desires. When everyone assumes a new identity, will we be a happier people?

 

[Bells]

The topic was about men using women's bathroom.

You mean like this man?

This man is transgender, born with a vagina and went through the transition and is now a "male". Yet he is now forced to use the women's bathrooms because the law now forbids him from using the men's room.

Afterward I was sitting down with my girlfriend at brunch and I asked her: Where do I go to the bathroom now? It's literally against the law for me to use the men's room, and it's also risky. Even though I'm more than a year on testosterone—I'm getting facial hair, my hair has receded a little—I still don't always pass as male. Or do I use the women's room, follow the law, and clearly make people uncomfortable? We started going through the different examples of what would happen, what could happen, and she started crying because it became clear to her that I was at risk for getting hurt.

The first time I went back into a women's bathroom, I was so nervous. I'm still nervous. I've created these cards—I keep them in my wallet. One time I was in a bathroom at a government center in Charlotte, and a woman asked what I was doing there. I tried handing her the card but she didn't want to take it, she walked away. I saw her later in the hallway, and I said, "I didn't mean to startle you." She looked at me and said, "I hope I never make that mistake again." I have no idea what she meant—I don't think she knew what it meant to be a transgender man. And then the other day someone gave me a hug after I gave her my card. I don't know if she recognized it because it's been viral.

But here's what I'm most afraid of: When they don't say anything and just ignore me and leave, I'm afraid to leave the bathroom and to be met by that woman's boyfriend or husband or an authority figure. Because I could easily be socked.​

We didn't touch on lesbian, gay or bisexuals in the bathroom. Interesting how you try to make this a larger issue.

This is an issue that affects everyone.

Why? Because this is a human rights issue. And the denial of human rights to transgender people is inexcusable.

Or did that fact escape you?

Personally, if it has a penis, it's a male, in my opinion. Nonetheless, if all women feel as you do, and they are willing to share their bathroom with a man, that is fine.

I am trying to figure out where you get off telling women who can use our bathrooms..

At the end of the day, it's really none of your business who uses the women's bathrooms. I have yet to meet a single woman who has an issue with transgender using our public bathrooms. What? Do you think we do vagina checks in our public bathrooms to make sure we are all female?

 

[Bowser]

We're talking about people; you're talking about cardboard cutouts.

I can't comment on your friend, whoever he/she might be. That's your personal story, so I take it on faith. We're talking about gender, and how it relates to other people. It would seem that you consider it fluid, I don't,

 

[pjdude1219]

So the Abraham Lincoln argument stands? It doesn't matter how hard it goes against reality, you're just going to accept it?

I think you do.

We just want them to use the appropriate restroom. No one is denying them the right to take a squat.

no what you want is to make them use the inapropriate bathroom. your setting up transgendered people to get attacked. just because you lack the intellectual ability to properly understand gender in its proper modern context doesn't allow you to pretend facts are facts.

 

[Bowser]

This man is transgender, born with a vagina and went through the transition and is now a "male". Yet he is now forced to use the women's bathrooms because the law now forbids him from using the men's room.

What transition makes a woman male and a man female. Honestly, can a surgeon actually perform such miracles?

​

Why? Because this is a human rights issue. And the denial of human rights to transgender people is inexcusable.

Or did that fact escape you?

Again, nobody is denying them the right to use public facilities, though their biological gender may hinder their entrance into a gender specific restroom.

I am trying to figure out where you get off telling women who can use our bathrooms..

I said this many times in this thread: Women should have the deciding vote on this issue.

At the end of the day, it's really none of your business who uses the women's bathrooms. I have yet to meet a single woman who has an issue with transgender using our public bathrooms. What? Do you think we do vagina checks in our public bathrooms to make sure we are all female?

Yet I've heard of complaints to the contrary. Are we to assume that you and your friends speak for all women? I don't assume to be the voice of female conviction. I just recognize that some might not be comfortable with the idea.