The Four Noble Truths

Bowser said:
So, what is the point of abandoning your desires? You're still going to suffer in life whether you grave for something or not. I honestly think that life would be boring without our desires. Any thoughts?
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Not fully read the thread...so sorry if i repeat anything.




If you are suffering due to wanting a bigger car, if you remove the desire for the car then you no longer suffer.
A trivial example, i know...


People can get depressed dreaming for the perfect house, girlfriend, job etc.... If you stop wanting and desiring them you won't spend years worrying or depressed.
Ultimately this may even result in gaining what you were after originally.

Desires are just dreams for the future. It's like removing any unachievable goals so you are not disappointed by them later.
 
drumbeat said:
Not fully read the thread...so sorry if i repeat anything.




If you are suffering due to wanting a bigger car, if you remove the desire for the car then you no longer suffer.
A trivial example, i know...


People can get depressed dreaming for the perfect house, girlfriend, job etc.... If you stop wanting and desiring them you won't spend years worrying or depressed.
Ultimately this may even result in gaining what you were after originally.

Desires are just dreams for the future. It's like removing any unachievable goals so you are not disappointed by them later.
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That's a valid point, Drum, but we have expanded the meaning to include attachments, which can involve much more than simple desires. My point was that we cannot remove all suffering because it is inescapable and a part of life. Certainly, you can remove some suffering, but not all suffering.
 
Bowser said:
That's a valid point, Drum, but we have expanded the meaning to include attachments, which can involve much more than simple desires. My point was that we cannot remove all suffering because it is inescapable and a part of life. Certainly, you can remove some suffering, but not all suffering.
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Well yes, thats how many people and probably me see it. It does seem difficult to remove desire, but that's the idea and whole point. It's supposed to be difficult and it was never claimed otherwise.

And throughout history some Buddhists have claimed to do it, thus becoming 'enlightened'. Whether they were telling the truth will never be known.
 
drumbeat said:
Well yes, thats how many people and probably me see it. It does seem difficult to remove desire, but that's the idea and whole point. It's supposed to be difficult and it was never claimed otherwise.

And throughout history some Buddhists have claimed to do it, thus becoming 'enlightened'. Whether they were telling the truth will never be known.
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No it's not the point to remove desires, desires are not bad they are good and enjoyable, alsoproductivefor chievinggoals. Motivation.


Attatchment is the thing you are looking to avoid, it is different, you can Desiresomething yet holdno attatchment or posessive lust for it. This alsoapplies to physicalthings only, being attatched to the Eternal energy (God) is apositive for your health and mind. It bringsinner peace, you do not find peacewithin yourselfyou find it in god.


Peace.
 
Bowser said:
Yet some say that god is the source of the inner self. I'm not sure whether or not that's the view of Buddhist, but it seems to be a popular theme elsewhere.
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Wellyou see god;s sealwritten in all of his creations, But if you just look in meditation you wont find enlightenment. Only with the most high and his tests will you find it.


Peace.
 
spidergoat said:
So if I found enlightenment as an atheist, that would mean God doesn't exist?
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That seems to be the Buddhist's view.

The refutation[1] of the notion of a supreme God or a prime mover is seen as a key distinction between Buddhism and other religions. Hence, Buddhism is often aptly described as a "spiritual philosophy" whose sole aim is the complete alleviation of stress in samsara,[2][3] called nirvana. The Buddha explicitly rejects a creator,[4] denies endorsing any views on creation[5] and states that questions on the origin of the world are worthless.[6][7] Some theists beginning Buddhist meditation believe that the notion of divinity is not incompatible with Buddhism,[8] but belief in a Supreme God is eminently considered to pose a hindrance to the attainment of nirvana,[9] the highest goal of Buddhist practice.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism


Apparently they don't believe in the atman too.

With the doctrine of anatta (Pāli; Sanskrit: anātman) Buddhism maintains that the concept of ātman is unnecessary and counterproductive as an explanatory device for analyzing action, causality, karma, and rebirth. Buddhists account for these and other self-related phenomena by means such as pratitya-samutpāda, the skandhas, and, for some schools, a pudgala. Buddhists regard postulating the existence of ātman as undesirable, as they believe it provides the psychological basis for attachment and aversion. Buddhism sees the apparent self (our identification as souls) as a grasping after a self — i.e., inasmuch as we have a self, we have it only through a deluded attempt to shore it up.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_%28Buddhism%29


It makes me wonder what it is exactly that they see when enlightened.
 
Bowser said:
That seems to be the Buddhist's view.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism


Apparently they don't believe in the atman too.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_%28Buddhism%29


It makes me wonder what it is exactly that they see when enlightened.
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You use the term very strictly "Thats what buddhists view" Buddhism is not like other religions, you can be a buddhist yet believe hardly anything another buddhist believes. I know buddhists who believe in god and I also know christians that believe in some buddhism and muslims that follow the same traits.

Zzen buddhism also is completely different to someother branches of buddhism, Some buddhist believe that the realms of samsara are gods heaven also.


Peace.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
You use the term very strictly "Thats what buddhists view" Buddhism is not like other religions, you can be a buddhist yet believe hardly anything another buddhist believes. I know buddhists who believe in god and I also know christians that believe in some buddhism and muslims that follow the same traits.

Zzen buddhism also is completely different to someother branches of buddhism, Some buddhist believe that the realms of samsara are gods heaven also.


Peace.
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I said, "That SEEMS to be the Buddhist's view." Certainly there must be variations throughout the many practices; however, it appears that Buddha himself was an atheist in practice.
 
Bowser said:
I said, "That SEEMS to be the Buddhist's view." Certainly there must be variations throughout the many practices; however, it appears that Buddha himself was an atheist in practice.
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Hmm well there have been 17 buddhas if (i'm not mistaken) Depends which one you are talking about. I would not call any buddhist an atheist though, I would say daoist agnostic mentality.


PS, sorry, i didn't realise you said "it seems" I take it back forgive me.

peace.
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
Heh I still try to engage in philosophical debates, it's just not the same when you know the truth though. :shrug:
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Well, there are some who know everything, and some who know 'nothing', but they also know that it has the same information content as everything, which is the only noble truth.

I will make a story about the Library of Babel, Jorge's place that contains every possible book.
 
SciWriter said:
One can see it with a really good microscope; it says "Made in Heaven."
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Lol, the seal is in his mathematics (which im still not good at de-cooding) The seal of his "Animate" creations is different to that of his idle pieces of work. The will/Instinct to grow and unite is one of his many seals in nature.

DNA is kind of like a bar-code in a way also.

peace.
 
SciWriter said:
Well, there are some who know everything, and some who know 'nothing', but they also know that it has the same information content as everything, which is the only noble truth.

I will make a story about the Library of Babel, Jorge's place that contains every possible book.
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What you said is some-what true, the ones who know everything only know what they are permitted to know, there remains much they still do not understand in regards to un earthly wonders and possibility. Everyone is intelligent or "usefull" in their own way.



I look forward to your story ^^


salam
 
EmptyForceOfChi said:
the ones who know everything only know what they are permitted to know, there remains much they still do not understand in regards to un earthly wonders and possibility.
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Uh, would the fact they only know "what they're permitted to know" and that there remains "much they still do not know" be some sort of indicator that, in this case at least, the terminology "the ones who know everything" is incorrect?
 
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