The fatal flaw in political Marxism
- Thread starter BennyF
- Start date
Soooo....the FEC, which is controlled by Obama, didn't ensure an honest election of Obama to the presidency? Amazing how he had control of an organization before he was elected!?!
The more you post...the less you make sense.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
I'm with you on the necessity for a strong middle class, but you are advocating for corporate and wealthy interests. How did you get fooled into doing that? Everything conservatives do kills upward mobility, which in the United States is much lower than in France or Germany for instance.
Real Class War Is Working to Keep Those Below You Down
Lime popsicles, and other notes
Well, part of it is that he just doesn't know what he's talking about. His arguments seem to be constructed more from recycled spam email talking points than anything real.
But one thing that puzzles me in all of this is the question of "Why now?"
That is, why did so many Americans decide that now is the time to lose the plot?
"Taxed enough already!" So, what's the problem, then, that Obama didn't lower taxes enough? Sure, taxes are as low as they've been for a half-century, but apparently that's not enough. So while they didn't complain about Bush, that's understandable, because that was then. They crossed a threshold, and the fact that taxes are lower isn't enough. They're just tired of waiting.
Voter fraud! Well, actually, no. Voter registration fraud is considerably more common than voter or vote fraud. Mickey Mouse is not going to show up on Election Day. But, of course, since voter registration fraud is common, again, it's just a question of thresholds. Sure, they didn't complain about a Republican-hired firm destroying voter registrations according to party affiliation in an effort to suppress opposition voters, and certainly that is more consequential than filling out registrations for the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, but, you know, these rhetorical wankers have crossed a threshold.
In other words, certainly there were all sorts of problems before, and some of them have even gotten better, but that doesn't matter because something happened to push these people past the point of no return, so scale or proportion aren't really important. It doesn't matter if President Obama is "less guilty" of what upsets them; they're past that point. Someone's gotta pay, and that is going to be Obama. Facts are not important. What is important now is self-gratification.
Which is why these people seem to stick together, despite everything else. The combination of these spiritually pure and fact-free angry people with their racist and equally fact-free allies should not sully the angry people. As Madanthonywayne once said, they're not racist, they're just so upset about some stroke fantasy assertion of Obama's policies that they're willing to look like it.
So it's no wonder that a lot of people think all this stupid complaining really is about the black man in the White House. Indeed, one might chuckle that our neighbor Benny is an admirer of a slave owner.
But that's beside the point. What we need to remember, more than anything else, is that Benny is an excellent example of the problem. These people are so disenchanted by the idea of society that they have developed an intolerance to fact. And that is what it is, in the end. They have their right to speak, but cannot enforce any obligation to take them seriously. I'm never certain whether to try to correct the factual errors in hopes of reconciling, or to simply play Pilate and walk away. Given the lack of any substantial argument, and the number of rhetorical non-sequiturs driving Benny's rants, I actually think the latter is the advisable course.
As we've seen in multiple threads he's started, he doesn't even understand the terminology he's dealing with, and rather than learning how the lexicon applies, he would instead insist that everyone else in the world rewrite their dictionaries to make it easier for him to imagine he has a point.
Sure, we're not God, he's not Carl, and there's no lime popsicle. But those who have tried to address issues of fact without any communicative success have done their part. Benny will have to take some time to reformulate and reposture. And then he'll come roaring back with another tinfoil rant, and again he will be marked by those around him as an unhealthy factor in the community, and the life will go on.
MacGyver1968 said:
Well, part of it is that he just doesn't know what he's talking about. His arguments seem to be constructed more from recycled spam email talking points than anything real.
But one thing that puzzles me in all of this is the question of "Why now?"
That is, why did so many Americans decide that now is the time to lose the plot?
"Taxed enough already!" So, what's the problem, then, that Obama didn't lower taxes enough? Sure, taxes are as low as they've been for a half-century, but apparently that's not enough. So while they didn't complain about Bush, that's understandable, because that was then. They crossed a threshold, and the fact that taxes are lower isn't enough. They're just tired of waiting.
Voter fraud! Well, actually, no. Voter registration fraud is considerably more common than voter or vote fraud. Mickey Mouse is not going to show up on Election Day. But, of course, since voter registration fraud is common, again, it's just a question of thresholds. Sure, they didn't complain about a Republican-hired firm destroying voter registrations according to party affiliation in an effort to suppress opposition voters, and certainly that is more consequential than filling out registrations for the Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, but, you know, these rhetorical wankers have crossed a threshold.
In other words, certainly there were all sorts of problems before, and some of them have even gotten better, but that doesn't matter because something happened to push these people past the point of no return, so scale or proportion aren't really important. It doesn't matter if President Obama is "less guilty" of what upsets them; they're past that point. Someone's gotta pay, and that is going to be Obama. Facts are not important. What is important now is self-gratification.
Which is why these people seem to stick together, despite everything else. The combination of these spiritually pure and fact-free angry people with their racist and equally fact-free allies should not sully the angry people. As Madanthonywayne once said, they're not racist, they're just so upset about some stroke fantasy assertion of Obama's policies that they're willing to look like it.
So it's no wonder that a lot of people think all this stupid complaining really is about the black man in the White House. Indeed, one might chuckle that our neighbor Benny is an admirer of a slave owner.
But that's beside the point. What we need to remember, more than anything else, is that Benny is an excellent example of the problem. These people are so disenchanted by the idea of society that they have developed an intolerance to fact. And that is what it is, in the end. They have their right to speak, but cannot enforce any obligation to take them seriously. I'm never certain whether to try to correct the factual errors in hopes of reconciling, or to simply play Pilate and walk away. Given the lack of any substantial argument, and the number of rhetorical non-sequiturs driving Benny's rants, I actually think the latter is the advisable course.
As we've seen in multiple threads he's started, he doesn't even understand the terminology he's dealing with, and rather than learning how the lexicon applies, he would instead insist that everyone else in the world rewrite their dictionaries to make it easier for him to imagine he has a point.
Sure, we're not God, he's not Carl, and there's no lime popsicle. But those who have tried to address issues of fact without any communicative success have done their part. Benny will have to take some time to reformulate and reposture. And then he'll come roaring back with another tinfoil rant, and again he will be marked by those around him as an unhealthy factor in the community, and the life will go on.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
I don't think it's anything new, they said the same stuff about Clinton, rehashed John Birch society garbage. It's just that now, they are willing to say these things publicly.
You mean before he took office. He had a lot of control after he won the election two and a half months earlier. Case in point, his Nobel Peace Prize. The application deadline came and went before he ever took office, which raises the question, "What did he do to deserve it before he took office?"
Obama is such a control freak, typical for dictators, that he couldn't allow a truly impartial FEC to monitor the campaigns, oversee the election, and punish any violations of election laws. The members of the New Black Panther Party, who were videotaped holding wooden clubs outside of Chicago polling places on election day were never prosecuted.
May 2009 news story in Fox News
Do you really think that they committed no crime? Do you really think the videotapes were faked? Do you really think the Federal Election Commission did its' job in 2008?
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- Me
"In Nevada, ACORN pleaded guilty to one felony count of unlawful compensation for registration of voters, stemming from an illegal voter registration scheme in its Las Vegas office during in the 2008 race."
- quoted from the Fox News story
The Nevada judge that imposed the maximum fine against Acorn disagrees with you. That article documents the outcome of a court case that was all about putting people's names on ballots that didn't deserve to be there because they weren't qualified to be voters.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
That was a non story. They aren't the real Black Panthers, and it was just one guy who no one could prove intimidated anyone.
Would you like me to point out the dictatorial behaviors of the Bush administration? Because that was real. Bush and Cheney believe in something called the unitary executive, which mean that the president is able to do things on their own, by executive order. They tortured people and spied on American citizens without warrants.
Would you like me to point out the dictatorial behaviors of the Bush administration? Because that was real. Bush and Cheney believe in something called the unitary executive, which mean that the president is able to do things on their own, by executive order. They tortured people and spied on American citizens without warrants.
I take personal offense at that stupid remark. Not a single person in this world is "black" or "white". We're all the product of centuries of migration, assimilation, and often intermarriage. This produces a wide variety of skin colors, facial features, languages, food preferences, music preferences, clothing preferences, spouse preferences, hobbies, religions, and lifestyles.
Say it again and I'll tell you about a real slave owner who got a female slave pregnant two centuries ago. His name was Thomas Jefferson, our third President. Millions of descendants of that couple are walking the earth today, and many of them look more like him than they look like the slave, thanks to the intermarriage that destroys forever any rational definition of the terms "black man" and "white man".
http://www.monticello.org/site/plantation-and-slavery/thomas-jefferson-and-sally-hemings-brief-account
Note: The photo came from a different website. Any competent image search will find several similar photos.
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Violations of Federal election laws happen when people perform an illegal act, like standing outside of a polling place with clubs in their hands. Holding a campaign sign within a given distance from the front door of the poling place is an illegal act. Prosecutors don't have to wait until a victim appears in court, ready to testify that (s)he felt intimidated, if the prosecutors in the FEC are allowed to do their jobs, Obama's FEC weren't allowed this responsibility because he's a dictator, a socialist, and perhaps an admirer of the writings of Karl Marx. We won't know for sure until a psychiatrist puts him on the couch.
I support my historical facts with links and sometimes photos. You haven't done either so far.
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spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Wow, the failure of Obama's justice department to prosecute one very weak case against one man makes him a dictator?
I'll show you some evidence of the opposition's true worship of dictators when you show me evidence that Obama seeks to emulate the teachings of Karl Marx.
I'm tempted to say "Halleluia", and to call myself simply one of God's children, but then I remember some of the other children of God who are outside of even the fringes of polite society.
Some of them get a sexual thrill out of seeing others in physical pain. Others kill and eat people when they get hungry. Others set themselves on fire because they hate government regulations and don't have enough political power to stop them. Others have tmutilated their bodies just to make themselves "different" than the rest of us.
Then there are people who wish to control large numbers of other people through intimidation, fear, excessive government regulation, and sometimes outright tyranny. If any of these people become the head of a state, as Lenin, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Mussolini all did, large numbers of their people can suffer.
The 20th Century's worst mass-murders
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Ketchup
No, actually, he doesn't.
I think the change of context is what is stupid. In terms of fundamental definitions, I would actually agree with your consideration of black and white. Real human practice, however, suggests there is still a great deal of value attached to skin colors and the various labels applied thereunto. Especially in the context I was referring to.
I mean, since you quoted that post, I presume you read it. If you read it, then you will know what is wrong with your voter fraud argument, and as such you're just reiterating your point without addressing the counterpoint. That's not an effective way to make your point, Benny.
BennyF said:
No, actually, he doesn't.
BennyF said:
I think the change of context is what is stupid. In terms of fundamental definitions, I would actually agree with your consideration of black and white. Real human practice, however, suggests there is still a great deal of value attached to skin colors and the various labels applied thereunto. Especially in the context I was referring to.
I mean, since you quoted that post, I presume you read it. If you read it, then you will know what is wrong with your voter fraud argument, and as such you're just reiterating your point without addressing the counterpoint. That's not an effective way to make your point, Benny.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Funny he mentions Hitler, since he was an example of the Republican wet dream, a complete merging of government and corporate interests.
Obama told the Justice Department to drop the case. They didn't drop it themselves based on a lack of evidence. That's in the news story.
The evidence is already here. All of the Executive Branch agencies are using the existing laws and regulations to reduce the profitability of large businesses and to drive small businesses out of business. This, as I said before, guts the middle class and artificially creates envy of the upper class by the lower class and fear of a potentially violent lower class by the upper class. This is class warfare, exactly what Karl Marx said was an integral part of the violent revolution that would end up with a dictatorship of the proletariat.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1919/sep/x02.htm
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Please don't think you can ignore racism just because the concept of race is artificial.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Nonsense, the administration is trying to build a middle class by increasing the services necessary to become middle class- things like education and infrastructure, like paying down the debt and keeping jobs in the USA. Corporations want to outsource the costs of doing business, that's what lack of regulation is. For instance, if safety in a factory is compromised, who suffers? It's not the business, it's the middle class workers! What do you call taking away the collective bargaining rights of workers? I call that class warfare. The rich have been fucking over the middle class every since Ronald Reagan. They want to eliminate unions (which built the middle class in the first place) and eliminate minimum wage laws. You want to argue that paying workers less money is good for business and therefore good for the workers? Please don't insult our intelligence. That's not only the stupidest reasoning I've ever heard, but also another example of class warfare.
The lower classes always envy the upper classes, that's what motivates them to becomes upper class! The USA has become among the worst industrialized nation in terms of upward mobility, so of course people are angry. The only way to avoid that is to keep people uninformed and stupid, which is the purpose of Fox News.
Regulation and collective bargaining created the middle class, otherwise we would have only two classes, the rich and the dirt poor. This country was founded to prevent a royalty from taking charge, in this case an economic royalty, and you are doing their bidding. Not everything that increases short term profit is good for the people. Unregulated capitalism caused the present recession, not middle class people looking to increase their stagnant wages by investing in real estate.
Karl Marx was a smart person, and he was right about many things. It would be a mistake to ignore him or present him as a crackpot.
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