The convenient hypocrisy of Republican Christians

[pjdude1219]

Now you are making a point that is not in evidence, Sandy has on many occasions stated that this is about Illegal Immigration, do you insist that she start everyone of her post with the qualifier that this is addressed about Illegal Immigration, well I will tell you that, about illegal Immigration I agree with everyone of her post, if you are here and your status is that of being undocumented, we should have you rounded up, were ever you live, work, or look for work, you should be deported, and before you go you do a year building a fence across the southern border, and when you complete your section you are moved to the other side of it.

No more nice guy, no more anchor babies, if you have a kid on this side of the Border, you go back, and its your choice, put the kid up for adoption, or take it back with you, but you don't stay.




Love and Charity is one thing and it comes from the heart, not stolen by seeking into America and using our services with out the ability to pay and no intention of paying, Love and Charity is given from the Heart not forced down one throat from bleeding Heart Liberals like you who use my money to
feel good about themselves, if you want to take care of them do it with your own money, sponsor a family with your own money, not mine, you take the responsibility first.

Me I give to charity, like Sandy it is my money sent to my choice of recipients, not the States, Not Yours, and if the State and People like you didn't rip me off for so much to take care of Illegal Law Breaker, I would be able to give even more, but I have no sympathy for those who break the Immigration Laws of our Nation and use our system to send money back to Mexico, with no intention of becoming citizens, and then use our health systems with out the intention of paying, over load our legal system and jails, rape murder, maim, and steel, depress our wages, and then have the effrontery to complain about the fact that we want to enforce our laws.

Like Sandy and the vast majority of Americans, screw em', and the feet they walked in on.

...

intrestingly enough the people most affected by I.I. are the ones most in favor of amnesty. probably something to do with its harder to hate and be a bigot towards people you know.

 

[madanthonywayne]

That is certainly not the case here on the East Coast. There is tremendous anti-Latino sentiment. They typically manifest it as laws that theoretically target only illegal immigrants, but the laws are crafted as dragnets to bring in all immigrants. Legal immigrants, naturalized citizens and native-born citizens of Latino ancestry are migrating out of some of the redneck counties in Virginia because the definition of "reasonable suspicion" is vague. The cops pull over anyone for DWL (driving while Latino). Nobody carries their birth certificate or their naturalization papers in their car, so they end losing half a day's pay while the municipal government makes it as difficult as possible for them to prove their right to be here.

So, as a guy with a Spanish surname, are you saying I'd get hassled in Virginia?

What form of proof are they requiring? And what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal alien? It seems to me an inability to speak English is pretty good evidence that you're not American by birth.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

So, as a guy with a Spanish surname, are you saying I'd get hassled in Virginia?

In Prince William County (e.g Manassas), yeah. If you got pulled over for a burned out bulb and they thought you might be a "Messikin" they'd hassle you. If you have any of the stereotyped features of Latino appearance or culture that they could see from a distance they might stop you for something that they couldn't get away with writing a ticket, but those rednecks would find a way to haul you in for a few hours just to send the message that "your kind" are not welcome in Dixie.

What form of proof are they requiring?

A green card will do it for an immigrant. In all the news articles I haven't seen a clear explanation of how citizens are finally released.

And what constitutes "reasonable suspicion" of being an illegal alien?

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant reasonable suspicion of doing something illegal, which gives them an excuse to shake you down and discover that you might not be American. This is so preposterous in a region where you can pull the giant American flag out by its staples on the bandstand in any bar and find the Confederate flag that was hanging there until 9/11. They act like they're more American than the Americans, when it's just an excuse to relive the days of the KKK.

It seems to me an inability to speak English is pretty good evidence that you're not American by birth.

It didn't stop Bush from getting elected. Seriously, I guess that's true now but not always. My mother was born in the Bohemian ghetto of Chicago (we call them Czechs now because "Bohemian" was too easy to spell) and she didn't learn fluent English until she went to school.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think with all politicians it is a case of "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons"

 

[Pandaemoni]

No you are stretching, he was teaching, to the Disciples, who being Jews needed to realizes that their future mission was not only to the Jews, but to the rest of mankind.

I am not trying to question your faith, but the way I read that passage, Jesus insulted the woman, and, like a slave in the Old South agreeing with her master that she was nothing more than an animal compared to him, she groveled to save her daughter's life.

If my daughter needed medical treatment, and the only doctor available was condescending, I'd probably suck it up, in order to save my daughter. At the very least, if anyone were to tell me that helping my daughter was akin to snatching food from children and giving it to dogs, I would not say "Why, thank you. What a compliment!" So I do not see it as an endearment.

I can see your reading that He was being an ass in order to teach the disciples not to be asses. But that's an interpretation not directly furnished by the text as I read it. It's an eminently plausible guess about what he may have been thinking. It just as likely from the literal text that, in His mind, he actually thought she was unworthy of receiving any of his grace until (like a dog begging for scraps) she amused him enough to give her a taste.

Since Jesus' private thoughts are not revealed, it's unclear what He was thinking. "Do not cast pearls before swine" was (to me) clearly about not sharing things that are holy with people who don't deserve them. It seems plausible enough to connect that with the scraps for dogs comments (hence many bibles do). The only criterion furnished by Jesus for presuming her unworthy was that He was here for other people, Israelis. The seeming presumption may have been a deception on his part (a teensy bit troubling that he put the fear of rejection into the mother's and daughter's hearts, though) or it may have been rebutted by the mother's persistence.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

I am not trying to question your faith, but the way I read that passage, Jesus insulted the woman, and, like a slave in the Old South agreeing with her master that she was nothing more than an animal compared to him, she groveled to save her daughter's life.

If my daughter needed medical treatment, and the only doctor available was condescending, I'd probably suck it up, in order to save my daughter. At the very least, if anyone were to tell me that helping my daughter was akin to snatching food from children and giving it to dogs, I would not say "Why, thank you. What a compliment!" So I do not see it as an endearment.

I can see your reading that He was being an ass in order to teach the disciples not to be asses. But that's an interpretation not directly furnished by the text as I read it. It's an eminently plausible guess about what he may have been thinking. It just as likely from the literal text that, in His mind, he actually thought she was unworthy of receiving any of his grace until (like a dog begging for scraps) she amused him enough to give her a taste.

Since Jesus' private thoughts are not revealed, it's unclear what He was thinking. "Do not cast pearls before swine" was (to me) clearly about not sharing things that are holy with people who don't deserve them. It seems plausible enough to connect that with the scraps for dogs comments (hence many bibles do). The only criterion furnished by Jesus for presuming her unworthy was that He was here for other people, Israelis. The seeming presumption may have been a deception on his part (a teensy bit troubling that he put the fear of rejection into the mother's and daughter's hearts, though) or it may have been rebutted by the mother's persistence.

But you missed the most important part of the story in your haste to convict Christianity, Jesus often taught through object lesson, the fact is that Jesus recognized her faith to the Disciples, and in his actions chastised them by healing the Woman's Daughter, something unheard of, For a Jew to help a Canaanite, here is what you missed;

She was scared to death. Canaanites like her never approached Jewish men. After all, the hatred between their races was ancient, yet her daughter’s plight had made her desperate. A horrible demon was tormenting the precious child she loved so dearly. After hearing all the reports of Jesus' miracles, she believed He was her last hope.

“Lord,” she pleaded, “Son of David, have mercy on me. My daughter is being tormented by the devil.”

Uncharacteristically, Jesus didn’t even bother to answer her. When the disciples saw this, they immediately misinterpreted His silence.

“Get rid of her, Lord,” they urged Him. “This rude, obnoxious woman is driving everyone crazy.”

Finally, Jesus answered her. “I only help Jews,” he said. Most people would have walked away angrily, but she fell on her knees and continued to plead with Him. “Why should I give the bread of God’s children to dogs?” Jesus replied.

“Yes Lord, You’re right. I’m a dog. But even dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their Master’s table,” she said.

Jesus was astonished. He’d never desired to hurt the woman. He was only testing her faith. “Woman, you have great faith. Your request is granted,” He said.

Her daughter was healed at that very moment.

As harsh as the replies of Jesus may seem to the modern mind, harshness and unkindness were not His intent. In fact, He was even doing far more than simply testing this woman’s faith.

He was demonstrating, through her life, the barriers many Christians have to cross in order to receive God’s best for their own lives. Although many things can be said about this strange story, I want to examine the four barriers this woman had to cross in her journey of faith.

First of all, she was a Canaanite. Because of the historic enmity between her people and the Jews, she had no natural right to expect their Messiah’s help. Desperation for the child she loved, however, forced her to cross the deep barriers of ethnic tension and hatred in order to find healing.

I have seen this same type of desperation in people throughout our world. Some of those are in religions hostile to Christianity, yet they come to a church meeting because of the dire need they, or someone they love, are facing.

Others are so hungry for the reality of God’s purpose and presence, they leave the comfort of their own ethnicity to find God’s purpose for their lives. God never fails to reward this kind of desperate faith.

Second, even though the woman pled with Him, initially Jesus remained silent. Many times, when you are in a moment of crisis like this woman, God will remain silent. It will seem to you that His ears have been deafened to your cries, but in reality He is waiting to see if you will persevere long enough to come into the new place of faith He has for you.

Will you give up, or will you persevere, when you face silence as an answer to your plea?

Third, this desperate woman also faced the rejection of Christ’s closest followers. “Get rid of her, Lord,” they had cried. Sooner or later, in your pursuit of God, one of His people will offend you. Whether it is true rejection, or just a misunderstanding, everything in you will want to run away.

If you allow your pain or rejection to keep you away from the God you have been seeking, you may never experience the reality of His promises to you.

Fourth, Jesus even called this woman a "dog." Amazingly, instead of being offended by this remark, the woman agreed with it. She was not afraid to face the reality of her wretched position, because she realized God’s mercy was not based on her character, but on His.

Although God will never call you a dog, all of us wrestle with deep feelings of low self-worth and inferiority at one time or another. If your understanding of God’s mercy and the gift of righteousness you have received through salvation does not enable you to pass through this painful barrier, your own insecurities may keep you from possessing God's promises.

Where are you in your journey? Some of you are in the place where God is silent. Others of you feel rejected by His servants or are battling with your own sense of rejection.

Wherever you find yourself, God has more than crumbs for you. He stands ready to bring you into the fullness of His table.

 

[madanthonywayne]

. My mother was born in the Bohemian ghetto of Chicago (we call them Czechs now because "Bohemian" was too easy to spell) and she didn't learn fluent English until she went to school.

Sure, and I had an uncle Condido who lived in the US most of his life but NEVER learned English. The guy would sit there at family gatherings only able to talk to the really old people because no one else was fluent enough in Spanish to carry on a conversation with him.

It's pretty obvious when someone is not a native speaker. Children learn languages easily and perfectly. But most adults can never really lose their accent when they learn a new language.

Immigrant families are an excellent case in point. I do exams on them all the time, since my Spanish is decent and I advertise in a Spanish newspaper.

You have the adults with very limited English, you have the toddlers with mostly Spanish usually since they're with the mom most of the time (if they have older siblings, even the toddlers have often picked up English from them). By first grade, the kids speak perfect English and serve as the translator for the parents.

 

[pjdude1219]

Sure, and I had an uncle Condido who lived in the US most of his life but NEVER learned English. The guy would sit there at family gatherings only able to talk to the really old people because no one else was fluent enough in Spanish to carry on a conversation with him.

It's pretty obvious when someone is not a native speaker. Children learn languages easily and perfectly. But most adults can never really lose their accent when they learn a new language.

Immigrant families are an excellent case in point. I do exams on them all the time, since my Spanish is decent and I advertise in a Spanish newspaper.

You have the adults with very limited English, you have the toddlers with mostly Spanish usually since they're with the mom most of the time (if they have older siblings, even the toddlers have often picked up English from them). By first grade, the kids speak perfect English and serve as the translator for the parents.

yep my bro has seen kids translating for their parents at the dmv scares the crap out of me

 

[sandy]

No you repeatedly slam immigrants...

I DESPISE criminal aliens. They are ruining my country. I want them all gone. Yesterday. I don't care what the hell color/race they are. I want them gone.

Now you are making a point that is not in evidence. Sandy has on many occasions stated that this is about Illegal Immigration, do you insist that she start everyone of her post with the qualifier that this is addressed about Illegal Immigration, well I will tell you that, about illegal Immigration I agree with everyone of her post,,,,
Like Sandy and the vast majority of Americans, screw em', and the feet they walked in on.
NO AMNESTY!
NO FREE HEALTH CARE!
NO WELFARE!
NO INSTATE TUITIONS!
NO SCHOOLING UNTILL ALL OF THE LEGAL AMERICAN GET A COLLEGE EDUCATION!
EVERY CRIMINAL ALIEN IN OUR PRISON SYSTEM MOVED TO THE BORDER BUILDING THE FENCE!

AMEN!!! Very well-said. :bravo:

 

[Captain Kremmen]

I DESPISE criminal aliens. They are ruining my country. I want them all gone. Yesterday. I don't care what the hell color/race they are. I want them gone

So.
What if native americans wanted you to go?

The ancestors of current Americans were never invited.
You should also go, if asked.

 

[sandy]

So.What if native americans wanted you to go? The ancestors of current Americans were never invited.You should also go, if asked.

I'm not playing history or what if? I'm talking about NOW. We have a HUGE problem that will destroy this country.

I was born and raised here. So were the last 5 generations of my family. We go way back. We are here legally. We deserve to stay here. We have all contributed greatly to this country. Not stole from it like the parasitic criminal aliens.

 

[maxg]

I DESPISE criminal aliens. They are ruining my country. I want them all gone. Yesterday. I don't care what the hell color/race they are. I want them gone.

So we should just ignore all your comments about LEGAL immigrants (as quoted above)? Yeah you're probably right--come to think of it I should just ignore everything you say since you appear to speak out of some other orifice than your mouth.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

So.
What if native americans wanted you to go?

The ancestors of current Americans were never invited.
You should also go, if asked.

I am sorry to disappoint you, but the vast majority of current generation Native Americans do not feel that way, I have a brother, and am a brother of the Objibway, we are closer then I am to my own brother, and your not even in the ball park.

History is just that history, there is a saying, The past is a pile of ash, build the fire of today, with new wood, I whish I could give you the Ojibway words but I can't remember them properly.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

So we should just ignore all your comments about LEGAL immigrants (as quoted above)? Yeah you're probably right--come to think of it I should just ignore everything you say since you appear to speak out of some other orifice than your mouth.

Again maxg, Sandy made it clear a long time ago that she was talking about Illegal aliens, so stop putting the Rush on her, and address the fact that these Illegals are the problem, and are a major drain on our Schools, Health Care, and Legal Systems, that they depress the wage for the legal worker, and do not add any thing to the Social System, they are net receivers of the benefits of that system.

 

[iceaura]

No you are stretching, he was teaching, to the Disciples, who being Jews needed to realizes that their future mission was not only to the Jews, but to the rest of mankind.

So even non-Jews might be saved, if they groveled and begged and admitted to being dogs.

Cute, pet Greek lap dogs, of course - as were no doubt common in the households of Canaan and Galilee at the time. What is the Aramaic for "cute lap dog" ? The concept seems to have disappeared from the area in the intervening centuries.

Teaching by example is always best, they say.

I don't think the government is a reasonable instrument of compassion, nor do I think illegal immigrants should be allowed to remain on any grounds other than recognition of the difficulty and expense in deporting them all. But then I am not claiming to base my legal system and governance on the teachings of Jesus Christ or the Christian Bible, as the Republicans have been recently.

 

[sandy]

So we should just ignore all your comments about LEGAL immigrants (as quoted above)?....

I want an end to ALL immigration. I want ALL illegal aliens deported COD to wherever the hell they came from. We have enough.

 

[maxg]

Again maxg, Sandy made it clear a long time ago that she was talking about Illegal aliens, so stop putting the Rush on her,....

I suggest you read her comments including the one below. She is against all immigration and has expressed a dislike for immigrants (particularly Latino ones) in a number of posts.

The problem I see with a lot of the rhetoric about illegal immigration is that it is just a cover for a dislike of immigration or that it is really a smokescreen that obfuscates the real problems with welfare, with the healthcare system, with jobs, trade, etc.

 

[ashura]

The problem I see with a lot of the rhetoric about illegal immigration is that it is just a cover for a dislike of immigration or that it is really a smokescreen that obfuscates the real problems with welfare, with the healthcare system, with jobs, trade, etc.

I don't think it's always an intentional smokescreen, but I do think there is definitely some truth to your statement.

 

[Pandaemoni]

But you missed the most important part of the story in your haste to convict Christianity, Jesus often taught through object lesson, the fact is that Jesus recognized her faith to the Disciples, and in his actions chastised them by healing the Woman's Daughter, something unheard of, For a Jew to help a Canaanite, here is what you missed;

I wasn't trying to "convict" Christianity. The whole Jewish faith is somewhat provincial (they are the "chosen people" after all, and non-Jews are not) and Jesus was member of that faith and ethnicity.

As for the quoted test, it makes a fair case for your interpretation, but it's doesn't come close to proving that that interpretation is the one and only one. It's "one writer's opinion" just as yours is and just as mine is. Since none of us can really peer into the mind of Jesus, and the text doesn't state what he was thinking, it's all reading tea leaves (or it least it would be, if reading tea leaves weren't against Jewish law)

In any event, the original comment was more of a parody, rather than serious. I used the incident as if it were Jesus rejecting an illegal immigrant, when in fact there were obviously no immigration laws and policed borders in those days.

 

[Facial]

WTF? We don't hate Latinos. WTF?

*WE HATE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. GOT IT? ILLEGALI MMIGRATION!!!*
BIG DIFFERENCE!!!

And yes, I would deny ANY criminal alien everything. He has no right to be here. He is a parasite and needs to go the hell back to wherever the hell he came from.

Illegal is illegal. There is NO spin.

Not even if he's a hunk of an Eastern European?