The American Indian Religious Freedom Act is racist and therefore unconstitutional

[spidergoat]

If you can get the US government to recognize you as such, and sign a treaty granting you want you want, then yes.

But you don't really think that the way the tribes ended up with the status they have now is by simple "calling their church a nation" do you? There is the niggling point that they were, mostly, extant nations already here before the USA existed, which makes a difference in these kinds of arrangements.

I was just pointing out the weird situation we are in when certain people don't have to follow our laws just because they call their beliefs a religion. How does something get to be a religion, and why do we as a society respect that more than an informal club or group?

 

[seagypsy]

I was just pointing out the weird situation we are in when certain people don't have to follow our laws just because they call their beliefs a religion. How does something get to be a religion, and why do we as a society respect that more than an informal club or group?

I think you need to re-evaluate quadraphonics' previous post.

But you don't really think that the way the tribes ended up with the status they have now is by simple "calling their church a nation" do you? There is the niggling point that they were, mostly, extant nations already here before the USA existed, which makes a difference in these kinds of arrangements.

I think what he is alluding to is that "our" take over of North America caused innocent people to be unjustly displaced. They had established Nations. The European settlers of the time may not have recognized them as nations since they presented themselves differently on the surface. Their banners were not stitched cloth hanging from a pole. They did not define the concept of land ownership the same way Europeans did. So the Settlers probably thought, "oh you don't own the land? cool, then we claim it! See our flag?" As time progressed, hind sight kicked in and our leaders came to the conclusion that what our ancestors did to the natives was wrong. In the spirit of apology, they recognized these peoples as nations in their own right and gave them the right to govern themselves. But also had to take into account that we stripped them of their means of sustaining themselves and growing as nations normally do. So we give them the protection of being Americans while at the same time, officially minding our own business in how they govern themselves while on a reservation. It was a compromise.

 

[Neverfly]

It was a compromise.

A bully grabbed a smaller boy on the playground and beat the holy living crap out of him and stole his Spiderman lunch box, containing the Roast beef sandwich his mother carefully packed away, cookies, pretzels and a drink.

The smaller lad sat on the ground, looking despondent and bruised. Looking down the bully realized how badly he had treated the little one and sat down next to him, opened the lunch box, took out the bag of pretzels and handed it to the lad. Cautiously, the young boy accepted the bag. As he opened the bag, the bully cheerfully reached in and took pretzels out of the bag as the younger boy ate the pretzels. If the younger one glared at him for taking some of what the bully gave him, the bully growled and flexed his muscles. After-all, he had a rightful claim to what he had given away for free.

Smiling to himself the bully packed away the rest of the lunch, closed the lid to the spiderman lunchbox, picked it up and walked off, proud of himself for making proper amends. He even got a roast beef sandwich as a reward.

 

[seagypsy]

A bully grabbed a smaller boy on the playground and beat the holy living crap out of him and stole his Spiderman lunch box, containing the Roast beef sandwich his mother carefully packed away, cookies, pretzels and a drink.

The smaller lad sat on the ground, looking despondent and bruised. Looking down the bully realized how badly he had treated the little one and sat down next to him, opened the lunch box, took out the bag of pretzels and handed it to the lad. Cautiously, the young boy accepted the bag. As he opened the bag, the bully cheerfully reached in and took pretzels out of the bag as the younger boy ate the pretzels. If the younger one glared at him for taking some of what the bully gave him, the bully growled and flexed his muscles. After-all, he had a rightful claim to what he had given away for free.

Smiling to himself the bully packed away the rest of the lunch, closed the lid to the spiderman lunchbox, picked it up and walked off, proud of himself for making proper amends. He even got a roast beef sandwich as a reward.

I didn't say it was a FAIR compromise lol. maybe I should have put compromise like this "compromise"

 

[Bells]

I didn't say it was a FAIR compromise lol. maybe I should have put compromise like this "compromise"

It isn't a compromise if only one side gains something and the other side gets nothing in return.

 

[seagypsy]

It isn't a compromise if only one side gains something and the other side gets nothing in return.

I don't disagree with you or Neverfly. The natives got screwed. But more likely than not these laws were peddled as a compromise. I know that is how they were presented to me in grade school. They were "given" something that should have never been taken from them in the first place.

 

[Neverfly]

I don't disagree with you or Neverfly. The natives got screwed. But more likely than not these laws were peddled as a compromise. I know that is how they were presented to me in grade school. They were "given" something that should have never been taken from them in the first place.

A lot of people don't realize how unpopular much of the Native American treatment was among the white people in the cities. Politically, it was considered a shameful act and there were strong lobbies for the Native American interests.

The U.S. government was left with balancing attempts to placate, not the natives, but their own people with these "treaties" or "(unfair) compromises" while overpowering the Natives whenever given the chance. Then reporting the natives as the aggressor more often than not. Such we now call, "Indian Giving."

Since many of these reservations were established in the mid 1800's the U.S.A. has consistently reclaimed much of that land.

 

[Epictetus]

I think some of the trouble here is misunderstanding the meaning of nation:
1.a large body of people, associated with a particular territory, that is sufficiently conscious of its unity to seek or to possess a government peculiarly its own: The president spoke to the nation about the new tax.
2.the territory or country itself: the nations of Central America.
3.a member tribe of an American Indian confederation.
4.an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages. (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/nation)

You see nation doesn't just mean a country like Switzerland (definition.#1), but #4 an aggregation of persons of the same ethnic family, often speaking the same language or cognate languages - it's what Yahweh meant when He told Abraham that He would make him a great nation, and I guess Yahweh knows how to use words correctly, if nothing else about Him is so-

Because #4 is so, #3 came into being when Europeans came to know of the various peoples of North and South America, who are nations in the sense of #4.

Returning to the OP once more, I suppose the U.S. government realizes that peyote-consuming tribes aren't doing it to 'get off', but following the traditional beliefs of their people. It's kind of like how pygmies are allowed to hunt endangered species, like elephants, because pygmies have been hunting elephants for time immemorial and it's obviously not their husbandry that has led to the animals' demise. I think there are similar exceptions to hunting and land use rules in South America.

Because #4 is so, #3 came into being when Europeans came to know of the various peoples of North and South America, who are nations in the sense of #4.

Returning to the OP once more, I suppose the U.S. government realizes that peyote-consuming tribes aren't doing it to 'get off', but following the traditional beliefs of their people. It's kind of like how pygmies are allowed to hunt endangered species, like elephants, because pygmies have been hunting elephants for time immemorial and it's obviously not their husbandry that has led to the animals' demise. I think there are similar exceptions to hunting and land use rules in South America.