"Taliswoman"...

[Sarkus]

If a person is in a wheelchair and needs to get into a house that has steps, then they have a SPECIAL NEED for a wheelchair ramp.

You sort of miss the point that their "need" is to get in to a house. That is the same as everyone else. The means by which that is achieved is a matter of practicality. They don't need a ramp, they need to get into the building. The ramp just happens to be a practical and economic means of achieving that. Much like stairs are for able-bodied.
The need is the basic requirement, not the means by which it is achieved.

 

[Motor Daddy]

You sort of miss the point that their "need" is to get in to a house. That is the same as everyone else. The means by which that is achieved is a matter of practicality. They don't need a ramp, they need to get into the building. The ramp just happens to be a practical and economic means of achieving that. Much like stairs are for able-bodied.
The need is the basic requirement, not the means by which it is achieved.

As I stated, everyone needs to get into their house. It is a SPECIAL NEED to need a ramp. The special need IS the ramp.

What do you think "special need" refers to, the person?

The special need is the ramp.

 

[Michael 345]

Throw some money at some houses and the problem goes away. No it doesn't.

Couple that Throw some money at some houses (which I hope is build some affordable houses for people without) and match house with person, problem does go away for THOSE people

IF the CONDITIONS which lead to homelessness persists however.....

 

[Michael 345]

"Experiencing homelessness" has the same less in it. Being homeless does not imply being less human.

Never said or implied that it did

The less is the person is less a house

 

[DaveC426913]

As I stated, everyone needs to get into their house. It is a SPECIAL NEED to need a ramp. The special need IS the ramp.

No. That fallacy is based on the archaic assumption that the majority are "normal" and anyone that deviates from that is "special". A man in a wheelchair doesn't pay special taxes or get a special vote at the polls or have special needs.

I need to get into my house. The government is there to ensure I can get into my house - regardless of how complex it might be or how much it might cost. It is simply my right as a citizen.

A man with a wheelchair needs to get into his house. The government is there to ensure he can get into his house - regardless of how complex it might be or how much it might cost. It is simply his right as a citizen.

Generally, each of us needs to get into our house. The government is there to ensure we can get into our house - regardless of how complex it might be or how much it might cost. It is simply our right as citizens.

There is nothing special about it.

 

[DaveC426913]

Couple that Throw some money at some houses (which I hope is build some affordable houses for people without) and match house with person, problem does go away for THOSE people

How can you possibly know what they need simply from the label "homeless".

How can you possibly know whether that person needs anything other than 4 walls and a roof unless you put their needs as an individual person over the label that says they're simply shy of 4 walls and a roof.

If what you are saying were true, then the problem would literally go away by building hundreds of walls with roofs and walking away.

But that does not, did not, and will not make the problem go away.

The reason it won't go away is because every one of these people have unique histories that led them to where they are.

 

[Motor Daddy]

No. That fallacy is based on the archaic assumption that the majority are "normal" and anyone that deviates from that is "special".

Again, the "special" is in reference to the ramp, not the person. Houses aren't generally built with ramps, because that is a "special option" like a special option on a car, such as heated mirrors. Cars don't generally come with heated mirrors as part of standard options, that is a special option. Some cars require special orders, because of the engine/tranny package, that generally doesn't come as a standard option. That is a SPECIAL order! It has nothing to do with the person.

I need to get into my house. The government is there to ensure I can get into my house - regardless of how complex it might be or how much it might cost. It is simply my right as a citizen.

You are out of your mind if you think it's the government's responsibility to make sure you can get into your house. Are you suggesting it's the government's job to make sure everyone has a house to get in to?? How about a pool, is that something the government should provide for every citizen to ensure they stay cool in the summer?? (rolls eyes)

A man with a wheelchair needs to get into his house. The government is there to ensure he can get into his house - regardless of how complex it might be or how much it might cost. It is simply his right as a citizen.

You are out of your mind if you think it's the responsibility of the government to ensure you get into your house. Where can I find that right in the Bill of Rights?

Generally, each of us needs to get into our house. The government is there to ensure we can get into our house - regardless of how complex it might be or how much it might cost. It is simply our right as citizens.

You are seriously out there if you think the government is responsible for making sure you can get into your house. What are you smoking?

There is nothing special about it.

The "special" part is that most people don't need a ramp to get into their house. "Special" is an above and beyond requirement of most people's general needs. VERY VERY low percentage of home owners require a ramp, hence the specialty of needing a ramp.

If you had to order a house like you do a car, a ramp would be a special order!

 

[Sarkus]

Again, the "special" is in reference to the ramp, not the person. Houses aren't generally built with ramps, because that is a "special option" like a special option on a car, such as heated mirrors. Cars don't generally come with heated mirrors as part of standard options, that is a special option. Some cars require special orders, because of the engine/tranny package, that generally doesn't come as a standard option. That is a SPECIAL order! It has nothing to do with the person.

So you're equating a ramp access for wheelchairs to a heated mirror on a car???

 

[Motor Daddy]

So you're equating a ramp access for wheelchairs to a heated mirror on a car???

They are both "special" options that generally don't come as standard. The point is not about the specific of the items mentioned, it is an example to show that it is about the option, not about the person.

If you are gonna say heated mirrors are common now, save the BS! I'm not playing word games I'm explaining the concept that it's not about the person, it's about the ramp.

 

[DaveC426913]

Again, the "special" is in reference to the ramp, not the person. Houses aren't generally built with ramps, because that is a "special option" like a special option on a car, such as heated mirrors. Cars don't generally come with heated mirrors as part of standard options, that is a special option. Some cars require special orders, because of the engine/tranny package, that generally doesn't come as a standard option. That is a SPECIAL order! It has nothing to do with the person.

Terrible analogy.
Every citizen has the right to access their home.
No citizen has the right to heated mirrors.

You are out of your mind if you think it's the government's responsibility to make sure you can get into your house.

It is their responsibility to put accessibility laws in place, so that citizens' rights asre met.

"Special" is an above and beyond requirement of most people's general needs. VERY VERY low percentage of home owners require a ramp, hence the specialty of needing a ramp.

"Most" is not how rights work.
Every citizen has right to accessibility.


Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)*

"...people with disabilities have the same opportunities as everyone else to participate in the mainstream of American life -- to enjoy employment opportunities, to purchase goods and services, and to participate in State and local government programs and services..."
https://www.ada.gov/ada_intro.htm

*Notice it is not called the Disabled Americans Act (DAA).


"Enforceable standards ... for new construction, alterations, program accessibility, and barrier removal."
etc.

 

[DaveC426913]

...I'm explaining the concept that it's not about the person, it's about the ramp.

We got that.

It's wrong.

Many normal, everyday, voting, taxpaying Americans need stairs to get to their homes.
Many normal, everyday, voting, taxpaying Americans need ramps or elevators to get to their homes.
There is no "special".

 

[Motor Daddy]

Every citizen has the right to access their home.
No citizen has the right to heated mirrors.

Every citizen has a right to access their home, ON THEIR OWN DIME!

It is not the government's responsibility to ensure you can access your home.

Every citizen has a right to a heated mirror, ON THEIR OWN DIME! If I go into a car dealer and say I want to order a car with a heated mirror, I have that right.

Same goes for a person in a wheelchair. They have a right to call a carpenter and build a ramp for them, ON THEIR OWN DIME!

 

[DaveC426913]

Every citizen has a right to access their home, ON THEIR OWN DIME!

FFS, I keep forgetting that you 'muricans live in the 19th century. My bad.

Ok, let's limit this discussion to the other 99% of the world that lives in the 21st century with a high standard living and a government whose purpose is to promote that standard of living for all its citizens.

 

[Motor Daddy]

We got that.

It's wrong.

Many normal, everyday, voting, taxpaying Americans need stairs to get to their homes.
Many normal, everyday, voting, taxpaying Americans need ramps or elevators to get to their homes.
There is no "special".

Again, what is special is the ramp, that is a special order item.

 

[DaveC426913]

Again, what is special is the ramp, that is a special order item.

Do they pay "special" taxes, get "special" votes?
No. They are full citizens, like every other citizen.

But yeah - sure. In America, screw your neighbour - it's dog eat dog.

I'd be a cripple on America. I have astigmatism. Glasses are a "special need".
I'd be dead in America. I have asthma. Life-saving Inhalers are a "special need".

 

[Motor Daddy]

Do they pay "special" taxes, get "special" votes?
No. They are full citizens, like every other citizen.

Do ramps pay taxes, you mean? No, but if you buy a ramp YOU pay the tax!

Are ramps citizens? Absolutely not! (...and they don't get a vote. )

I think you are confusing ramps with people.

 

[DaveC426913]

Here in the rest of the world, we recognize that homelessness is a symptom, not an identity.

Simply providing houses has not made the homelessness go away, because there are myriad co-determinants in health and well-being of every citizen - mental health, physical health, debt, income, economy, discrimination - and a host of other factors that are in-play.

If the root problem was, in fact, simple lack of housing, then a bunch of houses would make homelessness vanish. It doesn't. People who are homeless very often do not have the facilities to get or keep that roof over their head, for the above reasons, and many more.

And you cannot address the root problem by addressing just one symptom. You must look at the their larger circumstances, and the set of those will be as unique as the people are. Which is why it's not a very easy solution. Nobody wants to look at the individual circumstances of a person who can't pay them anything.

Nonetheless, being homeless does not remove their dignity as people. They need to be seen as people first, with unique needs - not as a one-size-fits-all label.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

I like Twationary

i suspect you have miss spelled it

twa tionary is how you have spelt it
but i believe the consonant is needed to finish the word
twat tionary

"twat" is english UK vernacular for idiot

 

[RainbowSingularity]

I agree - inasmuch as I think Sarkus' "temporary condition" theory is wrong.

My assertion - that they are people first and homeless second - is the correct reason. I'm pretty sure that will be borne out if we could find a source.

fast people
slow people
rich people
poor people
homeless people
black people
white people
racist people
woke people

these people are . . . sexy ?
these are not people these are homeless . . . ?
homeless is people too . . . ?

"The Homeless" . . . are they people ?

 

[wegs]

Every citizen has a right to access their home, ON THEIR OWN DIME!

It is not the government's responsibility to ensure you can access your home.

Every citizen has a right to a heated mirror, ON THEIR OWN DIME! If I go into a car dealer and say I want to order a car with a heated mirror, I have that right.

Same goes for a person in a wheelchair. They have a right to call a carpenter and build a ramp for them, ON THEIR OWN DIME!

That may fall under healthcare and long term disability though, which can be part of a government healthcare program.

I find that for many, unless something afflicts them personally, they don’t see it as “their problem.”