Star Wars vs Star Trek

Which universe would win?

  • Star Trek

    Votes: 227 35.5%
  • Star Wars

    Votes: 268 41.9%
  • Spaceballs

    Votes: 47 7.3%
  • Farscape

    Votes: 12 1.9%
  • Dune

    Votes: 50 7.8%
  • Stargate

    Votes: 36 5.6%

  • Total voters
    640
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Well i could expalin the numerous technological advances we had, but they are right it is a history topic. This is the SW versus ST and in this case the huge tech gap favors the SW galaxy due to the fact they can perform feats of travel and construction that beggar ST imagination.
 
transwarp is just as fast as hyperdrive.

and the dyson sphere is bigger then all of sw ships combined.


those two things alone negate your entire statement.

why do you think photons are impressive anyway?st HAS photons.
 
Transwarp is unreliable, energy consuming and the fastest forms are less than a tenth as fast as the slowest hyperdrive. Not to mention Tranwarp drives mess up all the time. Hyperdrives are reliable, cheap and hardly ever malfunction.

The Dyson sphere is not bigger than all of SW ship comined but it is sizable. The probelm is that no one else can buoild one other than the original creators and they are gone. thus that is a moot point

Meanwhile a 800km diameter space station was three quarters done in on six moths in the Star Wars universe. It took more than eighteeen moths to build the Enterprise-D.

Photons are impressive they travel as a particle and wave simulataneously. Photon Torpedoes are a joke.
 
If transporters convert their targets to energy and then reconstuct them in a different location, why aren't Transporters stopped by SW energy shields?

Are Photon Torpedos made of photons? 'cause if they are; how do you convert energy to energy?
 
well i did some reaserch into shielding,and if sw uses two layer shields then they must have two frequencies for those shields.so sw has only two varifiable frequencies.


and also,tjhose ridiculous power numbers you claim sw has for its weapons, sorry,but they dont corispond to e=mc2,they physicly cant produce that much power per shot.

a condensed blast of ''solid''photons is nothing more then a condensd laser. that laser energy can only have as much energy as the photons have. and photons can only be condensed so much.
so sw cant possibly be producing those ridiculous powerlevels per shot. there is a physical limit to how much power a blast of photons could physicly contain.

the sw websites calculated how much energy it would take to blow up a planet and ASSUMED sw weapons must be producing that kind of power.

well photons use radiation pressure to act on another object. so there physical power is limited to how many photons that can be compressed per shot.

so,sw cannot possibly be producing more power then those photons,and even ''solid''photons'' can only contain X amount of power,and it is far less then the powerlevels claimed by sw websites.

turbolasers may be able to blow up a planet,but not from the momentum produced by the photons.

the photons should be able to puncture holes in a planet and possibly destabilize the core,but they cannot disintagrate a planet to rubble of their own power without some form of planetary destabilization caused by those photons.

also,the feds dont use photon torps anymore,quantum torps are more effeciant and their yeild doesnt fluctuate with distance traveled because they dont need to use their explosive power for propulsion like a photon torp.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon
 
mars13 said:
well i did some reaserch into shielding,and if sw uses two layer shields then they must have two frequencies for those shields.so sw has only two varifiable frequencies.

Actually after checking some physicist and engineering sites that have been making hypotheses of on SW shielding I haved discovered something interesting. Only Star trek sheilds have frequencies. Star War Shield work across the whole board. The only way to pierce them is to knock them down with brute force or use Ion Guns. Ion guns prey on the fact that they disrupt ALL energy forms creating a feed back.

mars13 said:
and also,tjhose ridiculous power numbers you claim sw has for its weapons, sorry,but they dont corispond to e=mc2,they physicly cant produce that much power per shot.

a condensed blast of ''solid''photons is nothing more then a condensd laser. that laser energy can only have as much energy as the photons have. and photons can only be condensed so much.

so sw cant possibly be producing those ridiculous powerlevels per shot. there is a physical limit to how much power a blast of photons could physicly contain.

the sw websites calculated how much energy it would take to blow up a planet and ASSUMED sw weapons must be producing that kind of power.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Ah what a shame the public education system ahs done to you. Yes the weapon can produce that much power. In fact i am amazed Gene water down his arsenal that much.

The DeathStar SuperLaser has demonstrated the ability to blow up a world. So we know it provides a certain level of power. It is described as being only so much more powerful than heavy turbolaser. The we also can use Empire Strikes back to figure how powerful the blasts of a Star Destroyer are when it vaporizes 30, 40, and 70 meter asteroids in fractions of a second. this gives us a good idea of how powerful the weapons on a capital ship are. So yes they are that powerful.



mars13 said:
well photons use radiation pressure to act on another object. so there physical power is limited to how many photons that can be compressed per shot.

so,sw cannot possibly be producing more power then those photons,and even ''solid''photons'' can only contain X amount of power,and it is far less then the powerlevels claimed by sw websites.

turbolasers may be able to blow up a planet,but not from the momentum produced by the photons.

the photons should be able to puncture holes in a planet and possibly destabilize the core,but they cannot disintagrate a planet to rubble of their own power without some form of planetary destabilization caused by those photons.

Myths about SW tech

mars13 said:
also,the feds dont use photon torps anymore,quantum torps are more effeciant and their yeild doesnt fluctuate with distance traveled because they dont need to use their explosive power for propulsion like a photon torp.


Chip truth about torpedoes
 
sorry,but science disagrees with your ridiculous power claims.

photons can only interact with matter throu radiation pressure,and a transference of energy into that matter.


the only way a photons can blow up a planet is throu a transference of energy that destabilizes the atomic bonds of the planets internal matter,causing the planet to explode.its the planets own matter's atomic bonds that actually blow up the planet,the turbolaser just starts the chain reaction,which requires far less energy then you ASSUME[based on dubious calculations from ONE website with absolutly no knowledge of photons] they have.after all,a small amount of photons that have zero mass cant possibly smash a planet to pieces.this is the ONLY way photons could destroy a planetary body.

if you had even read the link i posted you might be slightly knowledgable about photons.

but you would rather post links to the one website you get all your
so called ''information'' then ACTUALY learn HOW a turbolaser could destroy a planet.

also,diffrent layers of shields can ONLY be diffrent frequencies, with only two layers their can be only TWO frequencies.
st ,using multiphasic shields,produces one layer of shielding per frequency,so the shields have as many layers as frequencies.
and since sw doesnt have any info about shielding other then observation,its safe to say,sw has two shield frequencies. one against the hull,one that forms a bubble.
thats two,not every possible frequency,otherwise sw would have multi layer shields ,one for every frequency.

and the feds dont use photon torps anymore,they use quantum torps.
 
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mars13 said:
sorry,but science disagrees with your ridiculous power claims.

photons can only interact with matter throu radiation pressure,and a transference of energy into matter.

Let me guess you had to get an art degree becuase you kept failing Chemistry and Physics

mars13 said:
the only way a photons can blow up a planet is throu a transference of energy that destabilizes the atomic bonds of the planets internal matter,causing the planet to explode.its the planets own matters atomic bonds that actually blow up the planet,the turbolaser is just starts the chain reaction,which requires far less energy then you ASSUME[based on dubious calculations from ONE website with absolutly no knowledge of photons] they have.

Really? oh sorry, just kidding! I knew you were full of caca. If you would read on you would find out that the energy he quoted is only the low end of what would be needed to blow up a planet. The process you mentioned defies the laws of Thermodynamics completely. The calculations are on several websites and his is the most conservative.

mars13 said:
if you had even read the link i posted you might be slightly knowledgable about photons.

I read the Wikipedia site you mentioned, which by the way is about as accurate as playing darts blind folded. Anyone can come in and edit the page. If you want to understand things try finding a reall encyclopedia or better yet a Physics professor.

mars13 said:
but you would rather post links to the one website you get all your
so called ''information''.

Is there something wrong with posting information?

mars13 said:
also,diffrent layers of shields can ONLY be diffrent frequencies, with only two layers their can be only TWO frequencies.
st ,using multiphasic shields,produces one layer of shielding per frequency,so the shields have as many layers as frequencies.
and since sw doesnt have any info about shielding other then observation,its safe to say,sw has two shield frequencies. one against the hull,one that forms a bubble.
thats two,not every possible frequency,otherwise sw would have multi layer shields ,one for every frequency.

Shields

I tried explaining it to you simply. Star Wars Shield are not the fragile eggshells that the Federation has. They do not operate on a single frequency. In fact they don't have a frequency per say. Which means your entire argument is pointless, much as it has always been


mar13 said:
the feds dont use photon torps anymore,they use quantum torps.

If you had even bothered to read on you would have seen farther down the page where he discusses Quantum torpedoes. Which still are crap. One Star Destroyer can take a thousand Photon Torpedoes (Which the Feds still use becuase Quantums are expensive) or 370 Quantum Torpedoes. Meanwhile a Star Fleet vessels cannot not stand the withering fire of the batteries of Light Turbolasers let alone heavy.

For information about Turbo Lasers
Quite possibly the best analysis of Star Wars turbo lasers on the net.
 
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http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/Photon.html

heres another link,i can post about 100 links all with the same basic physics info,but you wont read any of them.its too important for you to keep thinking sw has some ridiculous power levels that you wont even accept basic physics as fact,even if its in black and white and widely accepted by the entire physics community.


photons have no mass, so they cant be physicaly blowing the planet up with sheer force.thats just common sense.they COULD be modulated to interact with the atoms of the planet and transfere enough energy to rip the atomic bonds apart,destabilizing and erupting the core of the planet,causing it to burst.

you obviously know nothing of photons,otherwise you wouldnt even be arguing against this.

shooting a massless energy at a planet at the speed of light WILL NOT blow it up,other wise the sun would have blown up the earth a long time ago,thats just not how photons work.

photons CAN transfere enough energy into matter to destabilize their atomic bonds,thou,which is how a turbo laser CAN blow up a planet.

all your power calculations are flawed,they all assume that photons physicly impact the planet and shatter it. they physicly cannot do this.so all your shield power numbers and turbolaser power numbers ARE INCORRECT!!!!
they assume photons do things they PHYSICLY CANT DO!!!
every single calculation about sw weapons tech is FUNDAMENTLY FLAWED because of your inablity to look up PHYSICS before you started calculating power levels of weaponry.

and yes,sw shields HAVE to have a frequency,other wise they cant be energy.all energy has a frequency,so if they have energy shields they must be operating on a frequency,this is how they can have two layers of shielding.
each shield operates off a diffrent frequency.ALL energy in the known universe has a frequency,so sw shields MUST have at least two frequencies as they have two shields.

this is all BASIC physics. but you would rather throw insults because i have destroyed your fantasy world of ridiculous power levels.

how about you EXPLAIN how energy doesnt have a frequency or how photons can physicly impact matter and destroy it.because every single physics book says you are wrong.if you dont belive me,it doesnt matter,phyisics agrees with me.


also,continuing to post the exact same website over and over again proves you cant even form your own argument.and ALL those sites use the exact same flawed assumptions about photons so all there data is INCORRECT.


looks like its back to the drawing board for you and your WRONG calculations,but youll just argue against every physicist and physics book and never admit YOU ARE WRONG!!!

you WILL have to accept physics as part of an argument,there's just no way around it.
 
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you WILL have to accept physics as part of an argument,there's just no way around it.

We do, its YOU that is not.

Mars13, you are a fucking idiot. People have posted MOUNTAINS of evidence to support their claims, and you completely dismiss them with "I dictate whats true and not true".

People have accepted when you are right. Why can't you do the same?
 
because your ''mountains of evidence'' dont corispond to any physics in ANY galaxy.

its you who dismiss SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE .

i mearly looked at the physics of photons and IMEDIATLY found all your ''calculations'' to be fundamentaly flawed.

its you who bases your entire view of sw vs st on FLAWED information.

if im wrong,then why do the physics books back me up?

its not like im saying sw cant blow up a planet,im just saying they dont have the ridiculous power levels claimed by calculations done using flawed ASSUMPTIONS by people who didnt take PHYSICS into account when they were doing the math.

a turbo laser CAN blow up a planet. but its not producing the ludicrous amounts of power that you claim.

and sw shield power is also based of the same FLAWED calculations,so they must not have the power you claim either.

tell me again how something with no mass can vaporize a planet just by crashing into it.photons hit planets all day long and nothing happens,but when they are fired from a turbolaser they can blow up a planet.so obviously its not from raw power [the sun produces billions of times more photons a second then a turbolaser that impacts planets]but from some kind of nuclear chain reaction that the turbolaser sets off inside the planet.

all my arguments are inside the realm of physics,your arguments are from some sw website that refuse to alter its preconcieved notions.instead of actualy finding out how photons work you just copy and paste the some flawed info from some random website without even so much as a simple fact check.

and if im wrong about photons,then what exactly am i wrong about,or are specifics to much for you?

and if all your gonna post is the exact same thing you keep posting,dont bother, unless you can prove massless objects can destroy matter throu enertia[which they cant,being massless].or that a surface impact of photons can transfere enough energy to vaporize a planet[again the sun produce a billion times more photons that impact planets every second of everyday,so that out].
 
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First of all we are using physics. I am much more likely to accept the word of an engineer than a snot nosed punk.

Second of all it doesn't matter if according to our level of understanding that the physics of it does not make sense. In canon it works that way. If we went by physics then the Star Trek universe would be even more screwed becuase of it. I mean at least most of Star Wars is doable and pretty much makes sense. Star Trek does not even have that.

This is just another pathetic attempt by you to claim a Star trek victory that would not happen.
 
mars13 said:
all my arguments are inside the realm of physics,your arguments are from some sw website that refuse to alter its preconcieved notions.instead of actualy finding out how photons work you just copy and paste the some flawed info from some random website without even so much as a simple fact check.

Can we get this guy banned? For trolling or something?
 
We could but to be effective we would have to get the ISP banned not just the account. guys like him think rules and laws are meant to be twisted.
 
you do know that your following the classic LOSER argument tactics,dont you?

first its refusing to refute an argument
second its insults and personal attacks
third is cries to the moderater for a ban
fourth is the moderater tells you to quit being such a crybaby



[heres some handy links for you,maybe youll do better next time]
http://www.moyen.org/snipe/argue.html

http://themetropolistimes.blogspiri...-to-lose-an-argument-but-pretend-you-won.html


its pathetic you want me banned for WINNING an argument,a true sign of a coward with no debating skill or independent thought.i could bring up your endless personal attacks on me, if you would like to try and get me banned, as an example of you manifesting YOUR behavior on me to a mod if thats the way you want to play it.last time i checked posting ''on topic'' was the purpose of a forum,not sw dorks personal temper tantrum.

also, unless you REFUTE the claim,you must accept it.


and since you absolutly refuse to address the physics of photons,i take it you agree with my assesment.

now man it up,quit being a little crybaby,knock off your pathetic insults and argue your position.

also,be careful where you throw around your childish insults,some of us adults dont like it :rolleyes:


also,since when is telling stupid people to do a fact check trolling?thats just good advice .

trolling would be posting insults without any content that pertains to the topic,like your last few threads.
 
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Mars 13 aka Thundering Moron

You want to know how to blow up a planet with Photons? Easy pump enough energy in to heat the planet to the point that most of it vaporizes in less than a second. Voila. Blown up planet. Can it be done? Yes, by the Death Star. For the purposes of this thread it is all we need to know.

Trying to use a flawed understanding of how Thermodynamics works to argue on your own behalf is what we have all come to expect from you. I read your sites and came up with the conclusion that you googled them to try to argue your way out of the hole you were in.

I'll admit my understnading of Star Wars weaponry was flawed. For one I was massively underrating them. I was also making them far simpler than they were. If you would read thelink I posted you would have a better understanding.
 
I have a marvelous suggestion:

Let's return to the great discussion we were having pre-Mars13's entrance. We were having a very civil, interestind debate, about something we all seem to like quite a lot. Let's get back to it and simply ignore Mars13.

Anyone up for it?

Here's something very interesting in SW:

The Force, as demonstrated in the Empire Strikes back, has the capacity to work over thousands of miles. Vader kills a commander on an entirely different Star Destroyer - which had approached Hoth, whilst the rest of the fleet was still back - through Force choking him and, evidently, is not even exerting that much force. Moreover, Anakin lost most of his powers when being massively injured at Mustafaar, and yet is still capable of producing this amazing feat.
 
yes,lets ignore one whole side of a debate.pathetic cowards.

i guess thats the only way sw could win anything,if its a one sided fight.

ignoring one entire side of a debate is called RUNNING AWAY!!!its pathetic.

PHOTONS DONT WORK LIKE THAT RETARD!!!

apperntly im the only one who even knows how photons work.

theres no way any turbolase is producing that much power.its called fact checking,and your sw website you all have been jerking your selfs off too is riddled with BULLSHIT!!!

you cant just say photons behave in any way YOU want,they must only behave how PHYSICS UNDERSTANDS THEM!!! thats called a fact.

and if turbolasers were producing that much power ,blasters would be able to vaporize poeple[they cant],but they just leave tiny little holes in humaniods and they cant even go throu one robot hand.
grazing shot my ass,more like weak ass weapons.the damn things can barely light a burger king grill in 5 shots[sadly it IS canon],let alone vaporize a planet throu thermal exchange.

maybe if you would actualy read the SCIENCE behind photons you would know that.

more then likley your average turbolasers are about as powerful as a large phase cannon.

also,matter/anti matter reactions cant produce the power required to vaporize a planet with pure photons in one shot throu thermal dynamics.even if those ships are 90% matter / antimatter reactors,and even then it would only be good for one shot followed by weeks of refueling.

maybe you should learn basic physics and math and accept them as fact .i didnt write the physics books,someone 100x smarter then you did.

physics professor vs sw dork

hmmmm.... im gonna have to go with the physics professor.
 
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Actually you probably misinterpreted one of the physics books that you thumbed through. Then again that is pretty common when you google a subject and then post blindly with out fact checking. Which you have proved yourself all too capable of doing. Besides as I have said in my last post, I commented that I may have misinterpreted how blasters work.

If you remember I thought BLASTERS used a solid coherent beam of light. It has been pointed out to me that the effect described is more of a high intensity plasma weapon. Which even the least powerful would kill you easily. Now I did not claim that a Blaster could destroy a palnet so your argument there is pointless and merely is another in a long line of lame and cowardly tactics you shown here.

TURBOLASERS are a different animal. Seemingly one part partical canon, one part plasma, and one part just nasty. The typical LightTurbolaser Cannon found on a Star Destroyer has been shown to be able to vaporize a asteroid 4 meter across, in under a second. This gives us a good idea of it's power level as we can calculate what it would take to vaporize such a large rock and factor in that it would have to be applied in one second. And this is a LIGHT weapon, The full size and heavy cannons will do substantially more damage.

As for your ridiculous claim that the Death Star could not blow up a planet unless it was 90% antimatter/matter reactors i would like to see your equation written out long form. Becuase it occurs to everyone here that you are simply pulling numbers out of the air and 'inventing' a 'physics professor' to give your wild rantings some semblance accuracy. It is becoming increasingly obvious that you are latching on to any desperate tactic in order to win. The problem is you do not realize that you cannot win, becuase you are simply wrong and that is all there is to it.

For your own eddification the Death Star uses a hyper matter reactor. For all we know they could be harnessing the energy of a decaying singularity. Which would give more power in less space.



Now back to the conversation meant for adults. :cool:

The Force would be a very effect terror weapon. There are many dark jedi and sith who could kill you just by hailing and seeing your image. No shields will protect you. Just instant choking death.
 
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