Star Wars vs Star Trek

[Kron]

Hey, Im insulted. I voted for Stargate. Just look at all that crazy shit the asgaurds, ancients, and the other 'great races' did in that universe. One little outpost takes out anubises entire fleet? Thats nutso.

Sorry. I just refered to Stargate as a lesser universe because no one stands up to defend it. It's all ST, SW and Dune.

Dune: Star trek loses horribly. Star Wars blows up the planet. Space Balls comb the desert in advertantly exposing the worms ot polycarbovinyl killing them instantly. Star Gate never goes there.

Don't forget that the Tleilaxu figure out how to manufacture synthetic spice; meaning Arrakis is technically expendable.

 

[mars13]

i watched 15 seconds of gate the other day.

it was the most pathetic thing i have EVER seen.

tea-lick ''broke'' this guys neck in the LAMEST fight scene EVER.

it was fucking sad to watch.

at least sw had good grafics in the first 3 movies.

gate has NOTHING but a lame ass plot from a C movie,and mcguyver.



also,will someone PLEASE show me where sw can engage at ftl speeds and at distances beyond 50,000km.

 

[Fafnir665]

[qoute]sw seems to only consider the movies true canon,anything beyond that is lesser canon and any contridiction with the movies ARE NOT canon,and NOTHING in the eu is canon.and i got this off stardestroyer.net,so you obviously agree with it. [/qoute]

What the hell kind of hippy crack shit are you smoking? Lucas Arts gives all the writers of the books permission to write them, so long as they dont contradict the movies, and fit in with the time line of all the previous books. They have people review them to make sure they fit this criteria BEFORE they're released. They ARE canon, end of story. Thats not debatable.

Now as for your delusions that ship shields need frequencies. The frequency of a shield is most like the moments it is down for a very brief time. This is so weapon can fire un impeded. Getting the frequency of a ship would allow you to shoot through the shield becuase you shots are times right.

Star Wars shield have no need for Shield frequencies as they have the ability to open small holes in thier shield timed perfectly with the exit of their weapons. Since you don't need to lower the whole shield to do that, the vessel does not need to oscilate the shields like Star trek Vessels.

This was a pretty good explanation, but I can a one place where the wording would get sticky. Heres a couple definitions.

Frequency - You would know this if you have ever taken a statistics class. "The property or condition of occurring at frequent intervals. "

So say a ST shield has a frequency of 1720, that means at tick 1720 it will be down for a tiny fraction of a second. SW shields, as stated, have enough control just open up a hole in them. They dont NEED to be down at ANY point to allow craft, fire, torpedoes, anything out of them.

you know i have designed 3 amphibious vehicles and a dozen houses ,not to mention tons of other trinkets and things.im currently working on an in-sink dishwasher.there is only one on the market now and mine will be 1/10 the price and 2x faster

You are the most full of shit 10 year old I have ever seen.

 

[mars13]

ill scan them for you if want,but i got to get the scanner working.and besides,the point is still valid,someones profesion has NOTHING to do with there interpratation of scifi.and if you search for ''insink dishwasher'' youll only find one,its $1700 and is not much smaller then a regular dishwasher.mine will be more like a large george forman grill,not a huge undersink box.


also,if sw cant fire throu their own shields and must''open'' a hole before firing,then transporters will go throu those holes.phasers can be directed throu the holes,and torps can be timed to coincide with the hole openings.
a quantom torp impacting a turbolaser bank should make a nice explosion.

and with ALL those guns blazing,sw shields would basicly be swiss cheese by design.


and where can sw fire at anything going ftl?or beyond 50,000km?
thats probably why ALL movie battles took place at VERY close ranges,even torps dont seem to have ANY range.and turbolasers are NOT very accurate.being able to ENGAGE a target is going to be a challenge for sw. even small fighters will have a hard time catching st ships ,especialy if st uses warp jumps.

sw vs st is basicly a sledgehammer vs a .22rifle.

sw has very limited attack range,but anything within that range is devistated,but st has a much longer attack range but weaker overall attacks.

im sure more then one planet will be devastated by deathstars,but it will take more then losing a few planets to take over a galaxy.

if you cant engage st ships,then it will be IMPOSSIBLE for sw to win.


and the canon issue,there are 3 types of canon,correct?the movies being the most canon.followed by ''official''books, and thats about all that I will considered here. the eu and the video games and all that dont count anywhere.


and the borg will DECIMATE any sw ship it wants too if sw cant even fire a return shot past trasnporter range[and thats FED range,not borg]. landing an assmilation party WILL devistate sw ships,especialy since the borg ADAPT to energy weapons and are far stronger then most humanoids anyway.plus sw wont even know HOW tons of drones just appeared on board ,let alone how to stop them.

also,the borg have delt with nuetronim armour before,its a common element between both galaxies ,and used for armour on both sides.

 

[Fafnir665]

and the canon issue,there are 3 types of canon,correct?the movies being the most canon.followed by ''official''books, and thats about all that I will considered here. the eu and the video games and all that dont count anywhere.

All I brought up were the books, no quotes involved. All books publish by bantum are official. You cant argue that. Its one type of canon, what LA says is canon.

Mars13, you are one of the most ignorant people I have encountered on sciforums. You dont understand intelligent debate, and you flood threads with incoherent ignorant nonsense and expect to be taken seriously. Heres some advice : Finish highschool, or at least middle school. Then come back and read your posts. Then commmit sepuka.

 

[mars13]

appaerntly you dont agree with EVERYTHING on that stardestroyer.net then.maybe you should stop being such a bitch and figure out what you want to agree with.

i thought you said you ONLY agree with crap from that website,and it CLEARLY states there are 3 types of canon materials.and i ONLY recognize G canon.

http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=48114

heres the link dipshit.get your OWN shit together and come back when sw can engage beyong 50,000km at speeds greater then 2500km a second.

by the way,heres your ASS back.

 

[TW Scott]

Hey, you can't even spell 'intpretation' correctly. And that is one of countless spell, grammatic and logical errors.

First Neutronium in ST exist in black holes. That is it. No races uses it for armor. Only one race uses it at all and that is the Romulans in their quantum singularity drives.

Second you are assuming that one has to leave a hole in their shield indefinately. The holes appear just in time for the Turbolaser, Ion Bolt, Proton Torpedoes, or Concussion Missles. No one could guess where the hole is going to be untill it appears and even then if you somehow manage to try to beam through or fire a weapon the most likely result would be a vaporized torpedo or scrambled pattern.

Third you are assuming that ST weapons somehow have the same accuracy and effective power at long range that they do at short and that their ship can fight effectively in warp speeds. Given what we have viewed in the Star Trek movies and shows the longest range fight I have ever seen is 20 kilometers and the fastest non superluminal fight is slight more than 1800 meters per second as the Sovereign class Enterprise moved three of it's own lengths every second. I have seen Imperial Class Star Destroyers lay down withering fire moving slightly slower at 1600 meters a second.

Fourth you expect us to believe your make believe credentials and spout that a person's profession has no bearing in a debate. If this was a debate about the nature of xenobiology in scifi movies I would listen to a Biologist or MD and give his opinion more weight than a Trekker wannabe with little sense of taste, poor spelling/grammar, and an obnoxious personality.

 

[mars13]

wow,back to the lame spelling retort.pathetic.

i told you to come back when sw can engage beyond 50,000km and at speeds greater then 2500km a second.

can they? no.

but st can.

also,neutromium has been used for armour on countless occasions,hell last week a door as made of neutronium.
so obviously your wrong again.


Lieutenant Commander Montgomery Scott: "Mr. Sulu…what do your sensors show?"

Lieutenant Hikaru Sulu: "We can’t beam anybody down, sir. The force field on the planet is in full operation, and all forms of transport into the asylum dome are blocked off."

Lieutenant Commander Montgomery Scott: "Well, we could blast our way through the field, but only at the risk of destroying the Captain, Mr. Spock, and every other living thing on Elba II."

Chief Medical Officer Leonard Horatio McCoy: "How could we be powerful enough to wipe out a planet, and still be so helpless?"

-Star Trek, "Whom Gods Destroy"

 

[TW Scott]

Don't need to as Star Trek has not shown that capability in shows or movie either.

 

[mars13]

http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html

you need some education.read the truth about warp strafing.it has episode names AND quotes proving they can and have many times before.this website has some awsome examples of fed power,and it has sw power numbers as well.

also read where st ships can blow up asteroids BIGGER then the one stardestroyers were shooting.

but im sure youll just cry bias of some sort and run back to your SW BIAS website for comfort.


and an interesting note on nuetronium,the dyson sphere was compossed of nuetronium.and it was hundreds of km thick.

 

[TW Scott]

This is the site you trust? A site that has asteroids made of talc and forgets to add in the speed of the ISD into consideration with the infamous ESB Asteroid impact. Poor sloppy science. No wonder you speak like a mindless moron.

As for it's Warp strafing that is a few incidences among hundred of battles. Not only that half of what they claim is easily falsifiable by "The Fury". After all technically we could go by the latest interpretation and since VOY6 is after all those other episodes and touted as the most most maneuverable staship (Defiant is a gun boat) in starfleet then life becomes interesting. It seems the ships can do warp strafe but their crews are trained not to do it.

True they have blown some bigger asteroids than the 70m ones in ESB, but they had to use the whole ships fire power. Where the Star Destroyer used a Light Point Defense Turbolaser to vaporize one. So an entire slavo form an Intrepid class is less powerful than the light point defence laser on a Star Destroyer. You know you are making my job too easy.

 

[mars13]

first off,the power of the asteroid impact was calculated using the incoming speed of the stardestroyer AND the asteroid combined to get the IMPACT SPEED.which is all that would matter to figure out the impact force.and your ''nuetronium'' armour didnt hold up too well any way.

and there are numerous instances of attack while at warp,and they are used quite often in battle.there are at least 8 battles where the enteprise attacks at warp.

so they CAN do it when ever they want.and i dont know where the hell you get that they are not trained too,thats just stupid and has ZERO evidence to back it up.ALL evidence shows otherwise.



and what about the instances where st vaporizes asteroids BIGGER then the ones in sw?theres even pics for you if reading is too much.and it took ONE torp to blow up that asteroid,not an entire salvo.

and what about sw attack distances?still no comment?

you pick one arbitrary thing and rant and ignore the other mountains of evidence that DONT support your claims.



also,kirk said the enterprise CAN wipe out a planet.

here it is again...


Lieutenant Commander Montgomery Scott: "Mr. Sulu…what do your sensors show?"

Lieutenant Hikaru Sulu: "We can’t beam anybody down, sir. The force field on the planet is in full operation, and all forms of transport into the asylum dome are blocked off."

Lieutenant Commander Montgomery Scott: "Well, we could blast our way through the field, but only at the risk of destroying the Captain, Mr. Spock, and every other living thing on Elba II."

Chief Medical Officer Leonard Horatio McCoy: "How could we be powerful enough to wipe out a planet, and still be so helpless?"

-Star Trek, "Whom Gods Destroy"

 

[mars13]

and why do you claim st cant do something when clearly it HAS been done and theres even an episode name givin for ALL examples of said technology?

allthou,stardestroyer.net NEVER has an episode listed when it makes a claim about st.and the MAJORITY of ''info''on that site is half assed,wrong,or just made up.

its sad you get ALL your information from ONE website,without ANY fact checking or substantiation. how about you ACTUALY get a second opinion or EVIDENCE when making a claim?

wouldnt that be nice?

so,show me where sw can engage at ftl speeds or distances greater then 50,000km.and please have ANY evidence to support your claims this time.

 

[TW Scott]

Actually I reread it again and he made the speed of the asteroid to slow, used a density inconsistant with the canon Hoth asteroid belt and did not add in the Star Destroyers speed. Not to mention he shrunk the bridge tower to one third it's original size and by comparison the the asteroid. So we are talking a whole differently order of magnitude.

as for warp maneuvering:

Janeway: "Tom, what's the first thing they teach you about maneuvering at warp?"
Tom: "'Faster than light, no left or right.' When possible, maintain a linear trajectory. Course corrections could fracture the hull."
Janeway: "Exactly. We'd have to drop to impulse every time we made a course change."

Pretty much puts the kibosh on effect warp strafing. Not to mention the fact that while yes they can do it, they have proved time and time again that they don't. Eight battles out of hundred is insignificant. It's like having a skill you never use. You don't think of doing it and eventually you lose it.

As for the Enterprise wiping out a planet. NO. They can destroy every living thing on a planet, but given enough time so can a TIE fighter. It takes something like the Super Laser of the Death Star to destroy a planet completely

 

[mars13]

in voy,they coudnt manuaver at warp because they were in a feild of subspace vacuoles,if you tried a turn at warp you would ''slide''into a vacuole,or graze the subspace field of the warp bubble.and thats a bad thing.

and even then warp jumps worked just fine.

something sw is ill equiped to deal with anyway.


and saying they cant do something because they dont ALWAYS do that one thing is ridicules and you know it.they use it when they need it,end of story.


so,any luck on addressing the fact sw cant engage a st ship?you keep ducking this one.

also,show me where sw has any tech st does NOT have in similar fashion.

 

[TW Scott]

and why do you claim st cant do something when clearly it HAS been done and theres even an episode name givin for ALL examples of said technology?

But the abilty to Warp strafe would not help. There weapons are unable to breach ISD shields, they can be hit on the incoming, and Interdictors can mess up their day with artificial gravity wells. Not to mention most commanders will inherently not think to do it.

so,show me where sw can engage at ftl speeds or distances greater then 50,000km.and please have ANY evidence to support your claims this time.

Show me where this would matter with the Empire invading the Federation. With Hyperdrives. the Empire chooses the battle grounds. The hit and decimate entire worlds, loiter for a few hours then still leave a few hours before the feds arrive. The communication network would be destroyed hours after the Empire sends a signal that those who surrender will be offered preferrential treatment. The Feds will never be able to use their 'supposed' range superiority.

 

[mars13]

commanders have ALL took star fleet training,the picard manuaver is STANDARD teaching.as well as warp manuavering and combat.


and like i said,sw my get a few planet kills,but thats about it.it ould take the ONE deathstar MILLIONS of years to even make a dent in the alpha quads m class planets.

and the ablity to ENGAGE st ships in combat will DEFINITLY be needed to conquer a galaxy.thats kinda the entire point of a takeover.


and where do you get this ridiculos notion sw ships cannot be destroyed?or st ships cant harm their shields?

one torp took out an asteroid BIGGER then the one the stardestroyers were shooting at.not to mention that was a photon,not the new quantom torps,which have a higher yeild.

i have seen sw ships destroyed quite easily in the movies.and by rather small weak ships at that.one x wing vs death star,ring any bells?

not to mention that sw cant return fire on anything shooting at it.

and why didnt that 'second skin shield'' stop that asteroid?
or that impenatrable armour?

because ALL your ''facts''come from one website. and that website is riddled with inaccuracies.

and what part of the size estimations for the stardestroyer bridge were not correct?it says it was 268 meters wide. that seems about right compared to the ships size and scale.

the entire ship is only 1600meters long.

 

[TW Scott]

commanders have ALL took star fleet training,the picard manuaver is STANDARD teaching.as well as warp manuavering and combat.

Picard maneuver: Starts at impulse jump to warp nine before dropping to impulse and firing all weapons. Wouldn't fool ISD gunners who are used to Hyperspace jumps of the same type.

and like i said,sw my get a few planet kills,but thats about it.it ould take the ONE deathstar MILLIONS of years to even make a dent in the alpha quads m class planets.

The Federation does not have over 365 million worlds. In actuality they have maybe 2000 which would take 6 years with just the DeathStar. Add in Death Star 2, Galaxy gun, World Devastors, and Elcipse class SSD. the figure becomes months. Besides after the first few are gone watch the rest surrender.

and the ablity to ENGAGE st ships in combat will DEFINITLY be needed to conquer a galaxy.thats kinda the entire point of a takeover.

A classic moron argument. Yes my fleets will be perfectly functional when we have no bases, planets or colonies where we can refule and refit

and where do you get this ridiculos notion sw ships cannot be destroyed?or st ships cant harm their shields?

Just the massive difference between the power out put of the two universes.

one torp took out an asteroid BIGGER then the one the stardestroyers were shooting at.not to mention that was a photon,not the new quantom torps,which have a higher yeild.

One torpedo blew it apart, but did not complete destroyer. The ships phasers had to get rid of the debris. meanwhile a Point Defense TurboLaser turned an asteroid to gas in less than a second.

i have seen sw ships destroyed quite easily in the movies.and by rather small weak ships at that.one x wing vs death star,ring any bells?

Red Herring Tactic. The destruction of both Death Stars was due an unforseen weakness. Since the Federation could never get a good scan of either ship they would not detect the weakness. This is like saying that you can destroyer the Reman ship with a hand phaser.

not to mention that sw cant return fire on anything shooting at it.

This is so ludicrous I have to ask did you actually type this? I mean come on. Where on earth did that come from. Oh, never mind I know. I just can't believe you have a negative understanding of things. Is the sky orange in your world? just curious

 

[Fafnir665]

The Federation does not have over 365 million worlds. In actuality they have maybe 2000 which would take 6 years with just the DeathStar. Add in Death Star 2, Galaxy gun, World Devastors, and Elcipse class SSD. the figure becomes months. Besides after the first few are gone watch the rest surrender.

Youre forgetting centerpoint station. Wouldnt even have to leave home to pwn planets

 

[mars13]

yeah yeah,again,your same typical bullshit.

SHOW ME WHERE SW HAS ENGAGED ANYTHING BEYOND EVEN A FEW 100KM,LET ALONE THE MILLIONS IT WILL TAKE TO EVEN BEGIN TO SHOOT AT ST SHIPS.

you refuse to even address this with any EVIDENCE!!!!!!!!!just lame remarks .

and you act like planet killing things are new to trek.

there have been at least 4 planet killers seen in trek.

the xindi super weapon
8472s planet killer
the planet killing monster
the crystiline entity

all were capable of destroying planets,and all were defeted.
planet killing is old hat,its not new .

so if anything sw needs to look out for planet killers trying to kill them!!!! YOU are outnumbered in the planet killing department.


and its funny,when sw destroys an asteroid its proof of there immense firepower,but when st blows up a BIGGER asteroid with a much SMALLER ship you dismiss it.


also,i havent seen this giant powerlevels claimed by you for small sw ships portrayed in ANY movie,almost like you just make numbers and hope the stick.


and your ''neutronium''armour doesnt stop small rocks,and i saw no seconddary or primary shields for that matter on ANY stardestroyer,almost as if that was made up too.



not ONE of your claims is backed by ANY on screen evidence.almost like your full of shit.

how about you SHOW ME where x wings can level a planet,or where SD have multiple shields,orany of your ridiculous claims.

you call using a tactic 10% of time''never used'' but i have NEVER seen anything you have claimed,not once.

prove it with CANON material or fuck off.