Poor Eminem, libeled by a newspaper!
sorry i made a mistake, i took another look in the album booklet, and dr. dre is indeed executive producer like i said, but executive producers for f.b.t. productions are jeff bass and mark bass, i guess this was what the link you gave was referring too, still strange they didnt mention dr dre as executive producer..
It's cool. Part of what I'm after is that people take a hard look at the artistic things they like. I do it all the time. It helps keep the individual perspective on the art or artist in check.
eminem has produced most songs on the eminem show and did mixing, and he's executive producer and producer on devils night..
Eminem's role in the mixing was to assist a guy named Steven King, it would seem. That stage usually involves the artist telling the mixing engineer what he wants and then sitting there while the guy does it.
That was a good album review, though. In relation to "Hallie's Song", though, I'm suddenly put in mind of a song Tommy Lee wrote and performed for Motley Crue, dedicated to his child. You could almost write the same comments about that song.
what does the word pussy or cunt itself has to do with everlast
Specifically, it employs female-associated words as insults. Just like employing gay-associated words as insults. In other words, if you want to insult a man, call him a woman or a homosexual. Like your next portion:
you just used the word 'gay', which means happy, and it means a homosexual, but it also means something you don't like, something that is lame, it's often used by people, and in that context it had grown to be a meaning out of its own, absolutly not referring to being a homosexual anymore..its the same with the words faggot, homo and bitch...
Think of it this way.
• George W. Bush, Jr. is such a woman.
Now, I am not claiming that Mr Bush is actually a biological female. Rather, I'm using the word "woman" to indicate someone who is weak-willed, incompetent, stupid, and who whines pathetically.
In that case, "woman" is an insulting condition.
Is it easy enough to see? What else do I need to explain to you? (Seriously, and without sarcasm I ask that.)
AGAIN, you DIDNT read static76 and mines post before...people did listen to eminem BEFORE he blew up...before he ever got played on the radio, before dr. dre even knew about him...he had fans and he had people supporting him as an underground rapper in detroit..
Do you ever do the club or underground scenes? Ever get out and watch and listen to the plethora of bands on the underground and club circuits? For instance, Floater, who plays to rooms of 300 to 5000. They are well-respected on the west coast. They turned down a record contract because they weren't going to take their 75-minute masterpiece, cut out all the slow songs, write new material, and present it as a 59-minute heavy-metal album of collected airplay-ready singles. This is a question most face when they are offered a record contract. However, if Floater had a Chris Cornell or a Lemmy Killmister to go on television and go to MTV and go to record executives to create a stir for them, they could rule the nation.
In this sense I take my hat off to this hard-working, well-respected band that has found its niche in a local scene. They would rather win your hearts, not have someone tell you to like them.
Without the intervention of Dr. Dre, how far would Eminem have gotten?
Therein lies an interesting question.
AGAIN you didnt read my post before...i will quote it for you again, and maybe you can do your absolute best to read it...AND remember it this time..here we go, this is about the song you had took the margot kidder line from
From the looks of the review on the page you offered, it seems that there is some question about that genius:
• His "show" this time is all snarls, not cutting satire; Marshall Mathers is on the defensive now ....
• On the tracks, Mathers is at the ol' crossroads. He and Dr. Dre are starting to repeat themselves on the likes of "Soldier," "The Business," and "The Drips," and The Eminem Show lacks the overwhelming, single-minded force that
The Marshall Mathers LP had.
• The best moments feel unique, yet somehow isolated from one another.
Of
Devil's Night ... the
reviews are
not the kindest.
However, just for kicks:
• The D12 boys drop rhymes like: "Niggas want pussy and I want cash / So Ma, get out there and start selling your dirty ass." Each member is as indistinguishable by his equally calculated obscenities as the next is by his identikit Eminem-derived style.
This tells me very little. It does tell me that the reviewer finds the obscenity calculated for imitation in quest of popularity, and it tells me the reviewer finds that a difficult point. I'm aware of this degree of criticism. It's what people think about when they put things in the context of an art statement.
• In fact, the beats that Dre contributes to 'Devil's Night' sound like they could be prototypes designed back when he was still finding his way out of the G-funk hole and developing that now familiar sample-free sound.
And this, for instance. All it tells me is that Dre is not producing his best work toward this process, giving filler material essentially, in order to carry the project to completion. It's a very small statement.
• The alleged humour of Eminem is nowhere to be seen, buried under irritatingly childish (the number of references to onanism are no coincidence here) nonsense that makes Fred Durst sound like Seamus Heaney
I liked this criticism because it's funny. But this is merely a reviewer's tastes. Who cares if Eminem makes Fred Durst sound like Seamus Heaney, except that Marshall's lyrical genius is supposed to be the high point? In fact, the only reason a criticism like this matters at all is because it strikes after the heart of Eminem's credit: his lyrics.
• As executive producer, Eminem contributes many of the productions, revealing a paucity of ideas that might give an indication of what we can expect from his next album.
Now this, while still subjective, is an important criticism. Is Marshall "holding back"? Is this the whole of what he came up with? (I'm looking for Dotmusic's review of
The Eminem Show just to see what they think ....
Speaking to US magazine Entertainment Weekly, Dre explained: 'It's a lot more serious this time. There's not as much playful stuff on it.'
'I'm gonna finish up his project soon," he added suggesting that' The Eminem Show' could be released as early as April. (
Dotmusic)
Dre, in February, had to "finish up" Marshall's album? Well, there is, indeed a hint at Dre's EP status. But my question here would be
Why isn't Marshall "finishing up" the project? At any rate, that article wasn't the review I was looking for. I'm not finding a review of
The Eminem Show at Dotmusic ... ah ...
here it is. I like this review:
• Marshall Mathers III knows this, of course, which is why the title of album three tips a subtle, knowing nod to the ultimate reality project,
The Truman Show. But if he was being truly honest, he would have found some way to twist a pun out of
Groundhog Day. Because, like Bill Murray's character who's doomed to live out the same nightmare again and again (and like Jim Carrey's who is stuck in a suburban purgatory), Marshall is trapped within the character of Eminem.
I mean, this is just a high-minded potshot by a critic, but it's pretty funny because some people understand exactly what degree of artistic integrity the critic is swinging after. But therein lies the presumption of
The Truman Show connection, which, frankly, I've never heard of before, and I would hope for Eminem's sake that the critic is inventing that comparison. I mean, a pompous critic is one thing, and well-known. However, if the point derives from Marshall's own words, the critic has a
huge point.
• Consider the evidence. In 'Cleanin Out My Closet', he unleashes an astonishingly corrosive torrent of hatred towards his parents, saying "I've got some skeletons in my closet/and I don't know if no-one knows it", but the fact is we've heard the story repeated for years now. Other themes: loathes his wife (check), feels persecuted by critics and the authorities (we know), is the voice of white America (heard it), is here to save hip-hop (yep), blahdeblahdenananana (uh-huh).
You'll notice there's almost no qualitative assessment of the song. In that sense, it is safe to say the critic did not find the song groundbreaking. But the rest of the point is unfortunately valid. Nobody's going to deny that people feel this way, but there is nothing really new about the basic messages he's spewing. Admittedly, his manner of expression is considerably lowbrow, so there's that artistic merit. But I think that little capsule makes a good point.
• This isn't laziness on Marshall's part, though. He literally has no choice but to bounce off the same ideas, to attack the usual suspects. "I've created a monster," he says on 'Without Me', "no one wants to see Marshall anymore". On 'Say Goodbye To Hollywood', he's more explicit. "No one puts a grasp on the fact that I sacrificed everything I had," he says referring to privacy, dignity, stability, happiness, sanity even. "If I could go back/I never would have rapped."
Critics aren't all naysaying. If you say something is good or bad as a critic, you're obliged to tell why.
More importantly, though, who says Marshall has to keep rapping? Or does the critic have him wrong, too?
• Make no mistake, no one on this planet would last five seconds being Eminem, let alone Marshall Mathers III. The world he inhabits is a twisted, cruel, horrific place, even if what we see of it is simply entertainment.
This is a great note. In addition to pointing out the trouble of Marshall's life, the critic does make a wonderful point about how people see it as entertainment. However, I would wonder at those who would peddle this apparent hell as entertainment. Fair enough?
• On 'Superman', his attitude towards women is appalling, but this isn't dumb, kneejerk sexism, it's ingrained, full grade misogyny. He f**king hates, mistrusts, undervalues and fears every girl on the planet save his daughter, always haunted by his mother and ex-wife.
Now
that is a broad criticism, but it does point toward a psychological process that many can sympathize with. But the anthrax on the tampax makes me wonder if there is any particular reason for any of it.
Perhaps my favorite (so far) critical assessment of Eminem's talents:
You've seen it all before. But still you're drawn to the TV set, sucked in by the drama, obsessed by the press cuttings. And, hey, whaddya know? Marshall Mathers has the talent and sheer force of personality to rap his shopping list and diary of business appointments during the last tax month of 2002 and still we're hooked. We've heard it all before, we know the punchline, we've bought into the joke, but still we want the delivery again and again. "I sold my soul to the devil and I'm never getting it back." If those words aren't engraved on Marshall Mathers III's tombstone, the world is more f**ked up than you can possibly imagine.
It's as much an indictment of the buying public as it is of Marshall himself.
We could, of course, always pretend that Eminem exists in a vacuum. But what I see in these couple of reviews of the albums you pointed out is generally a couple of fair reviews. One cannot point out the work of Eminem without considering the controversy. Therein we see part of the secret of commercial art.
Thank you at least, for getting me up to pulling up reviews. It was very informative.
i guess eminem got to tired to repeat everything he said before and didnt feel he had to go over it again and again and again..
O ... kay ....
Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm completely that fucked up. But given that it's over
one year later, don't we find Marshall's determination to keep this up just a little obsessive? And then when Conan O'Brien showed the comic-dog tape, I was on the floor laughing. People are defending this dude? O-kay. What-ever.
I mean, seriously:
Some people question the antics of some bad news boys of hip-hop: Are they in character or out of character?
Well, get this: The bad blood between Eminem and Moby almost turned violent at the recent MTV Video Music Awards when the best-video winner's posse chased Moby during a commercial break, according to The New York Post.
Moby ran and jumped into a chair in the audience at Radio City Music Hall when Eminem's army approached him, a source told the paper.
"They were pointing fingers at him and saying stuff like, -- We're going to get you after the show,' " says a witness. "Moby ran and jumped into the seat in front of us to get away."
When Eminem accepted his award for Best Male Video for "Without Me," a song in which he ridiculed Moby, he took another potshot at the bespectacled techno titan. "I don't know what to say, that little Moby girl threw me out of my game," Eminem said to a chorus of boos.
"Keep booing, little girl. I will hit a man with glasses."
Responding to Eminem's ill-humored and ill-timed behavior, Moby posted a response Friday on his official Web site: "The truth is that I honestly, in all sincerity, thought that the whole Eminem thing was done in some semblance of humor until Eminem called me a p---y that was off-camera and then threatened to beat me up. Ah, well. I think that Eminem is talented and interesting but I'm kind of stunned at the anger that he has for me seeing as I'd never met him up until last night." (
St. Augustine Record, 9.02.2002)
Tired of repeating himself? Apparently so.
look up in this post and read the links...
I did. I even read the review that was included.
and you got 2 songs from static76, where i said i totally agreed with, but yet AGAIN you didnt read it...
I see Static mentioning "Stan" on 9.4, your mention of "White America" on 9.5, repeated mentions of Eminem's lyrical response to Moby without citation (Static), a repeat of "Stan" from Static on 9.6, Mentions of "Stan", "Cleaning out My Closet" and "I Remember" on 9.9, and a couple of lyrical expositions scattered in there.
Having just reviewed the whole of the topic
yet again, I come up with two original mentions: "Stan" and "Cleaning out My Closet". At no time were either song held up to be the songs I should listen to any more than the issues people took with my lyrical examinations proclaimed such a song.
So perhaps you could point out those two songs and the post(s) in which they occur. It would be helpful. It's entirely possible that I've missed it. What, with the claims that a contracted form of two words mean something other than the term it contracts, minimizations of Eminem's conduct, contrary claims that Eminem is not rock and roll and that Eminem can save rock and roll ... ad nauseam.
If I missed it, take some pleasure in that fact and then point the damn posts out please.
but then again, i actually listened to his albums and you didnt and still you think you owe the absolute truth and know everything about his songs and lyrics
Once again, the poor excuse that not buying something suspends the right to have an opinion about it?
It seems that you are paying attention. If you weren't, why would you have written so many posts?
The flip-side of that is that no, I don't "owe" (own?) the absolute truth on Eminem. But since his fans want his lyrics to be taken in an artistic context, I would hope they could provide a coherent example of how to do that. So far, it hasn't happened. He's lyrically talented, but that first album wasn't up to snuff. Contracted words mean something different from the word sequence contracted. Has rhyming value and meaning, but nobody can tell me the meaning. Hello?
look to what i previously said in this post about the margot kidder line...and i measure his words on their rhyming value AND what they mean
Well, what does it mean, then?
but it arent just empty words that happen to rhyme.
So
what does the Margot Kidder line mean?
so your stereotyping of eminem female fans doesnt fit to all female fans, maybe some are like that, but every artist has a couple of fans like that, they surely arent ALL like that
Would you rather I lie and misrepresent fans? On the one hand, you're upset because I haven't listened to--experienced--the whole albums the way you want, and on the other hand, I don't see that it matters since you wish to replace my observations and
experiences with fluff.
the gay friend i have by the way is a GIRL, so no she doesnt want to fuck eminem
I'm glad someone brought this up.
• The lesbian is generally safe from desiring a man like Marshall
•_Would Marshall object to having homosexual intercourse? What about a threesome with two girls? (Social double-standard, you know; one of the reviewers pointed out that the new album deals with social double-standards, so why not?)
•_I would be very curious to read your friend's assessment of Eminem. It would be fun, and educational.
and looking at the vma's its obvious eminem had no INTENTION to really act on what he said
Please see the
St. Augustine Record article included above, and then consider e-mailing Eminem's organization, since that particular libel would be one they can sue over in order to set the record straight.
it was more like static76 said trash talking then really something he said and was planning to do
O ... kay ...
there is a BIG difference between this
If you say so. In the meantime, please see the
St. Augustine Record and then notify Eminem's organization about the libel committed against him.
and if it was really a threat of violence, than according to your theory (because you said eminem should have taken moby to court about the things moby said about eminem to proove him wrong), moby should have filed a complain with the police and let the judge see if it actually was a threat
If Eminem's posse got hold of him, he probably would have. In the meantime, Eminem got booed for his words, and that seems to be enough so far.
and knowing that the judge would see that eminem didnt act on his threat, because the little girl kept booing…and still eminem didnt go in the audience to hit the man with glasses..and that he just went on with his speech obviously not serious about the ‘threat’ he made, because he didnt show any intention, i doubt if the judge will think its a threat
I await your response, then, to the horrible libel printed in the
St. Augustine Record.
dont you think i will make a great lawyer when i finished my law study
Frankly, no. Respond to the apparent libel printed in the
St. Augustine Record and we'll see.
im not justifying the thing eminem said, i think it was stupid of him, and better left unsaid...i just dont see it as a real serious threat of violence like you do
Well, I'm not a big-time pop star. If I say those things to people in this town, I get arrested.
Maybe the rules do change when you get famous, eh?
Once again, just for kicks:
The bad blood between Eminem and Moby almost turned violent at the recent MTV Video Music Awards when the best-video winner's posse chased Moby during a commercial break, according to The New York Post.
Moby ran and jumped into a chair in the audience at Radio City Music Hall when Eminem's army approached him, a source told the paper.
"They were pointing fingers at him and saying stuff like, -- We're going to get you after the show,' " says a witness. "Moby ran and jumped into the seat in front of us to get away."
When Eminem accepted his award for Best Male Video for "Without Me," a song in which he ridiculed Moby, he took another potshot at the bespectacled techno titan. "I don't know what to say, that little Moby girl threw me out of my game," Eminem said to a chorus of boos.
"Keep booing, little girl. I will hit a man with glasses." (
St. Augustine Record, 9.02.2002)
thanx,
Tiassa
