Simple method to transmit thoughts that always works.

[Sarkus]

Good contra!
Well at least I can see that you have understood my argument.
In all the research I have done on the P.E. I have not come across your version. If you have a link, please, would be great!
Is it worth noting that you date the publishing of the hoax as of later than 1953?

There is no account of the supposed experiment before c.1955.
A book was published in 1953 about UFOs, by Jessup, detailing possible propulsion systems they might use.
A guy called Carlos Allende (or Carl Allen - he went by a number of names) then got in touch with him to relate the story of the PE.
The original book has been expanded, I believe, to include those letters:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Case-UF...&qid=1370205567&sr=8-4&keywords=morris+jessup
There's no link to anything else that I'm aware of - as it seems to be fairly well accepted that this was the original source of the story that we are familiar with.

And given what was going on back in 1943, with degaussing experiments (which enables ships to be invisible to mines) it does not take much embellishment to change those to some fantastical experiments claiming invisibility to light (i.e. as in the ships disappearing from view).

Are you aware that the first popular/published contemporary UFO sighting was in 1947 by Kenneth Arnold [private pilot]?

It was an interesting time and I believe [ unsupported ] that it was during this time that the field of "Psychiatry" started to formalize it's diagnostic and treatment programs.
Taking advantage of your assessment, the P.E. most probably was an exercise in nasty science fiction using the "science of the day's" possibilities to fuel it. [As was the contemporary interest in UFO's]

I guess one could surmise that it was due to the rapid expansion in scientific understanding at the time [ Nuclear, QM, QED, Computing, Communications, etc ] that could have been fueling the imaginations at the time. >1953 but not necessarily 1943 which is the actual supposed date of the experiment.

I don't think the PE was any "nasty" exercise - just one man's misunderstanding that captured the imagination of others, including some that saw it as a cover-up etc, fuelled by the paranoia of the day (cold-war etc).

UFOs were (and still are) generally explained by rather mundane things.
The 1940s - including during WW2 - saw many designs of aircraft that would have appeared like flying saucers, with strange designs continuing as the aero-industry really took off (no pun intended).

And I believe the first "saucer" in the sky was reported back in the 19th century... and "foo-fighters" were reported throughout WW2.

But unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise, it is more reasonable to assume the explanation of anything is mundane rather than anything that might defy (our current understanding) physics, or involve ETs etc.

 

[Lakon]

agrees... thanks, you have helped greatly in ways you will probably never fathom as well.

I am very happy to hear that. One prescription I try to practice all the time is to subject my beliefs to regular scrutiny - even those I hold long term.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I am very happy to hear that. One prescription I try to practice all the time is to subject my beliefs to regular scrutiny - even those I hold long term.

Have you ever considered the distinction between that which is believed and that which is known? - I am sure you have as "critical" thinking requires this as one of it's foundations.
I asked myself the questions years ago and do so every day...
"What do I believe?"
"What do I believe I know?"
"What do I actually know?"

The answer is always: "I believe a hell of a lot more than I actually know" and "I actually know very little indeed."

"Belief is only a stepping stone on the path towards a truth that can never be discovered" - hence my "Life's A Tease" motto.
"The truth is always irrational to those who believe in a lie"

 

[Quantum Quack]

There is no account of the supposed experiment before c.1955.
A book was published in 1953 about UFOs, by Jessup, detailing possible propulsion systems they might use.
A guy called Carlos Allende (or Carl Allen - he went by a number of names) then got in touch with him to relate the story of the PE.
The original book has been expanded, I believe, to include those letters:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Case-UF...&qid=1370205567&sr=8-4&keywords=morris+jessup
There's no link to anything else that I'm aware of - as it seems to be fairly well accepted that this was the original source of the story that we are familiar with.

And given what was going on back in 1943, with degaussing experiments (which enables ships to be invisible to mines) it does not take much embellishment to change those to some fantastical experiments claiming invisibility to light (i.e. as in the ships disappearing from view).

I don't think the PE was any "nasty" exercise - just one man's misunderstanding that captured the imagination of others, including some that saw it as a cover-up etc, fuelled by the paranoia of the day (cold-war etc).

UFOs were (and still are) generally explained by rather mundane things.
The 1940s - including during WW2 - saw many designs of aircraft that would have appeared like flying saucers, with strange designs continuing as the aero-industry really took off (no pun intended).

And I believe the first "saucer" in the sky was reported back in the 19th century... and "foo-fighters" were reported throughout WW2.

But unless there is evidence to suggest otherwise, it is more reasonable to assume the explanation of anything is mundane rather than anything that might defy (our current understanding) physics, or involve ETs etc.

Thanks for clarifying this issue. The whole reason for my bringing this up was to use the PE as an example of how in 1943 the global imagination was vastly different to what it is today or even 10 years after the alleged event took place. However as you say there is no evidence that the event took place let alone that it took place in 1943. [Other than the "word" of a particular person of dubious reality]
I will need to use a different example in future when attempting to discuss the evolution of the global imagination [regarding fear based reactions] and any suggestions would be most welcome...

 

[Quantum Quack]

@Lakon,
As an observer of human behavior one could conclude evidence as being available by simply Googling for information about the details of the secret organizations inner rituals and practices and find that none are available.

On the face of it this seems to be silly but when you consider that this organizations size and years of existence in the thousands of years one can then invoke the human behavior aspect and ask how is it possible that the secret has been retained with so many members over thousands of years? [after all people are notoriously hopeless in keeping secrets over many generations are they not?]

It is well beyond the statistical norm to consider that not one person, family member, friend or associate of a member has "successfully" betrayed this organizations secrecy in 2000+ years of existence.

Maybe it is a secret organization that has no secrets to reveal. By golly!

Thinking:
"The secret ingredient of a famous culinary dish is in fact merely the belief that the secret ingredient exists"

worth a look!

[video=youtube_share;CO6NOx53SrU]http://youtu.be/CO6NOx53SrU[/video]

 

[Lakon]

Have you ever considered the distinction between that which is believed and that which is known? - I am sure you have as "critical" thinking requires this as one of it's foundations.
I asked myself the questions years ago and do so every day...
"What do I believe?"
"What do I believe I know?"
"What do I actually know?"

The answer is always: "I believe a hell of a lot more than I actually know" and "I actually know very little indeed."

"Belief is only a stepping stone on the path towards a truth that can never be discovered" - hence my "Life's A Tease" motto.
"The truth is always irrational to those who believe in a lie"

Yes, seeing is believing ?

Nah, morely likely, believing is seeing.

 

[Lakon]

@Lakon,
As an observer of human behavior one could conclude evidence as being available by simply Googling for information about the details of the secret organizations inner rituals and practices and find that none are available.

On the face of it this seems to be silly but when you consider that this organizations size and years of existence in the thousands of years one can then invoke the human behavior aspect and ask how is it possible that the secret has been retained with so many members over thousands of years? [after all people are notoriously hopeless in keeping secrets over many generations are they not?]

It is well beyond the statistical norm to consider that not one person, family member, friend or associate of a member has "successfully" betrayed this organizations secrecy in 2000+ years of existence.

Maybe it is a secret organization that has no secrets to reveal. By golly!

Thinking:
"The secret ingredient of a famous culinary dish is in fact merely the belief that the secret ingredient exists"

Yes, thinking it through, another question you would have to consider is if it was such a secret organisation whose onerous and deep secrets were never betrayed, how is it that you know about it and it's secrets ?

As I said earlier, do you think that this secret organisation (whichever one you have in mind) is the only one that has ever existed ? Men have formed secret organisations ever since they were in caves. There are some I've read about all the way back to the Old Egyptian kingdoms, that are supposed to be in existence still. I'm not losing any sleep over them.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Yes, thinking it through, another question you would have to consider is if it was such a secret organisation whose onerous and deep secrets were never betrayed, how is it that you know about it and it's secrets ?

You allude to why me? type grandures yes?
Well you know it all dates back to when I had that stroke 25 odd years ago and had to learn again how to think and see...blah blah blah... it just so happens I am very observant and can see certain spacial distortions that other can't see. And besides I don't think I have ever been born before to find out...and to be honest I am a pretty weird sort of guy after all...so why not? [ I also employed/employ a similar method to heal my self from the stroke 25 years ago]

and besides I am only extrapolating from the behavior of some of the members I have witnessed doing their thing on public transport [Victim interviews included]. The fact they all used the same method and belonged to the same organization may be just pure coincidence, but I would seriously doubt it.
see a duck, smell a duck, taste a duck, is a cat... is what you wish me to believe...and tell you what... I'll just believe that a duck is a cat as you wish me to, just to make you happy ...[deliberate lying is so much fun]

Add to all the above all the other information and evidence collected over many years and bingo the cat is.....(wait for it!)....... a dog instead!

"Oh where oh where has the little duck gone?"

 

[Lakon]

You allude to why me? type grandures yes?
Well you know it all dates back to when I had that stroke 25 odd years ago and had to learn again how to think and see...blah blah blah... it just so happens I am very observant and can see certain spacial distortions that other can't see. And besides I don't think I have ever been born before to find out...and to be honest I am a pretty weird sort of guy after all...so why not? [ I also employed/employ a similar method to heal my self from the stroke 25 years ago]

and besides I am only extrapolating from the behavior of some of the members I have witnessed doing their thing on public transport [Victim interviews included]. The fact they all used the same method and belonged to the same organization may be just pure coincidence, but I would seriously doubt it.
see a duck, smell a duck, taste a duck, is a cat... is what you wish me to believe...and tell you what... I'll just believe that a duck is a cat as you wish me to, just to make you happy ...[deliberate lying is so much fun]

Add to all the above all the other information and evidence collected over many years and bingo the cat is.....(wait for it!)....... a dog instead!

"Oh where oh where has the little duck gone?"

I allude to nothing. I was simply saying if the organisation is so secrect as you repeatedly stated how is it people (you for instance) know about it.

No matter. I withdraw the question. I'm glad you cured yourself of your stroke.

I'm done with this thread. I will not post in this thread again. Cheers.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I allude to nothing. I was simply saying if the organisation is so secrect as you repeatedly stated how is it people (you for instance) know about it.

uhm .... because maybe the organization itself is not secret but what it does and what goes on inside it's virtual walls is....and has been maintained as such for over 2000 years.[formally since the 1300's]...with out betrayal... eh! go fathom...!

Yes, thinking it through, another question you would have to consider is if it was such a secret organisation whose onerous and deep secrets were never betrayed, how is it that you know about it and it's secrets ?

As you can see above you did specify "me" that you are questioning. So is it fair and reasonable for me to accept that you are suggesting a state of deluded grandeur exits?

Personally, I thought was a far question given that I may be the only person who knows about their activities that doesn't fall under their control. If I was talking to some one like me I would be asking questions about delusions of grandeur as well.

A bit like I seem to be the only person who knows that the amount of energy in transit [propagating] universally if taken into account properly would blow most of currently held scientific belief in the photon and light/em effect out of the water.
and so on...

just a note:
The sheer fact that a well known "secret organization" can maintain it's secrecy in such absolute terms, regardless of management/membership changes over 2000 + years is very telling indeed. In fact this achievement alone is utterly staggering when you think on it.
The thing to realize, if we wish to accept even in abstraction, that psychic influence is occurring, is that the key ability of any psychic controller is the ability to block interest. The ability to apply stealth, the ability to block persons natural curiosity and inquisitiveness so that they can do their thing with out conscious witness.
basically if they kill the desire to question by blocking it then they can never be found out as it takes "questioning" to "acknowledge" that something exists. With out acknowledgement you are "blind" to what is happening.

"Unquestionable authority" = oppression of freewill = secret kept for over 2000 years.

If you feel you are being pressured to believe me simply because of what I have written and not apply critical thought you are being influenced in a way that is oppressing your freedom to question and apply sound reasoning.
because "authority" regardless of it's nature should always be open to questioning. Whether that be a President, a King or even God himself..... it doesn't matter.

 

[IncogNegro]

I prefer to think of psychic references an observation of behavior and surroundings just as much as an instinctual feeling as it does deserve it's secrecy. If it were truly understood the misappropriations of it in society could become detrimental to it's understanding.

Individuals leaving no options for another's thought often comes at a detriment to the individual displaying the ability. They want it but do not have the eyes to see or ask questions along the same cognitive terms, therefore the misunderstanding in the instance is not always for the targeted questioner to claim.

And once they are sufficiently lost they strive to regain their power instead of considering themselves in a lost state of Confucianism.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I prefer to think of psychic references an observation of behavior and surroundings just as much as an instinctual feeling as it does deserve it's secrecy. If it were truly understood the misappropriations of it in society could become detrimental to it's understanding.

Individuals leaving no options for another's thought often comes at a detriment to the individual displaying the ability. They want it but do not have the eyes to see or ask questions along the same cognitive terms, therefore the misunderstanding in the instance is not always for the targeted questioner to claim.

And once they are sufficiently lost they strive to regain their power instead of considering themselves in a lost state of Confucianism.

by "Confucianism" I take it you are referring to "A dog chasing it's tail" in endless futility..yes?
If so I totally agree...
The ancient Greek myth of the Sisyphus and his rock rolling comes to mind as well.
IMO the problem is both the target and the actor must deal with a fundamental paradox in a way that it can be managed if they wish to see themselves out of the "Taoist/Confucian-ist" cycle of perpetual self defeat.

 

[IncogNegro]

Wow. Me and my grandfather just had a long interesting discussion concerning just those topics.

I believe every compassionate person has trouble dealing with those types of individuals because they fail to regress these people back into their childhood, walk away, then later come back and resolve the issue fully. It seems to me if a person cycles in anger or a close emotion they are the most difficult and often need regression before they can progress. Aside from that pointing to an emotion and explaining an experience from our own wisdom is a great passive way to progress a persons emotional and physical balance.