Scientists Find More Abiotic Oil

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OilIsMastery

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Russian scientists have discovered oil seeping from bedrock aka volcanic igneous rock. This means there is no sedimentary so-called "source rock."

NOVOSIBIRSK, August 7 (RIA Novosti) - Scientists have located a crack in the bedrock of Siberia's Lake Baikal from which crude oil seeps into the lake, and have discovered a range of organisms living in the oil, an expedition member said on Thursday.

Researchers, who are currently examining the processes through which microbes in the world's deepest lake digest petroleum that naturally enters the water, conducted deep water dives on Monday and Wednesday to locate the oil source.

Dr. Mikhail Grachyov, an expert on the molecular evolution of Baikal's animal and plant life, said the source was found at a depth of around 850 meters (2,800 feet) to the south of Barguzin Bay, and that samples of the oil had been taken.

"It turns out that a large number of organisms live in this oil. This will require a huge amount of study," he told RIA Novosti.

"We will study everything - the oil, the means through which it is broken down, the microbes, physical characteristics, and so on. This is necessary both for fundamental science and for practical goals."

Research into Baikal's oil may provide new insights into the origins of petroleum, he said.

The consensus view among scientists is that crude oil is formed by decayed plant matter accumulating on the bed of a body of water and being subjected to heat and compression under heavy sediment over a period of millions of years.

However, several Russian scientists going back as far as Dmitry Mendeleyev have suggested an 'abiogenic hypothesis,' according to which petroleum was formed from carbon deposits originating deep in the Earth's mantle.

Baikal is the world's oldest lake, with an age estimated at 25 million years. Scientists taking part in the current expedition, during which 160 deep water dives are planned over the next two years, have stressed that research is not aimed at exploiting possible oil and gas reserves, but at protecting Baikal's unique ecosystem. ...

Baikal, a UNESCO World Heritage site, holds around 20% of the planet's freshwater.
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spidergoat said:
This has by no means been confirmed scientifically.
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Yes it has.

"It’s at least plausible that the 3.2 billion year old oil we found did in fact have an abiotic origin." -- Roger Buick, 2008

"Formation of higher hydrocarbons in the upper layers of the Earth's crust occurs only as the result of Fischer-Tropsch-type reactions in the presence of hydrogen gas but is otherwise not possible on thermodynamic grounds." -- Geoffrey P. Glasby, 2006

"Examples of the occurance of abiogenically-derived hydrocarbons have been recorded." -- Geoffrey P. Glasby, 2006

"It is possible to convert methane into a complex mixture of higher alkanes and alkenes at high pressures and temperatures but not carbohydrates, the fundamental building blocks of plants." -- Geoffrey P. Glasby, 2006

"It is generally recognized that the first pre-biotic organic molecules on earth and elsewhere in the solar system must have been formed by abiogenic reactions." -- Barbara Sherwood Lollar, 2006

"No one doubts that inorganic hydrocarbons may occur in association with hydrothermal systems." -- Michael D. Lewan, 2005

"Abiogenic gasses are a clear fact. I can make them on the lab bench today." -- Barbara Sherwood Lollar, 2005

"We’ve barely tapped, from the exploration point of view, the hydrocarbon potential that’s out there on this planet." -- Stanley B. Keith, 2005

"The methane is not that strongly fractionated but they still think it might be biological. At Lost City, you can't figure out if it's biological or not by the isotopes." -- James F. Kasting, 2005

"Most geologists resisted for several generations the idea that is now a key paradigm of their science, the theory of plate tectonics championed by Alfred Wegener (Oreskes 1999)" -- Vaclav Smil, 2003

"The subject of organic chemistry was wrongly taken by petroleum geologists long ago to mean chemistry of biologic origins. You can still have a book of organic chemistry that has nothing to do with organisms at all." -- Thomas Gold, 2002

"I don't think anybody's arguing that gas couldn't be generated from the mantle." -- Barry J. Katz, 2002

"I don't think anybody has ever doubted that there is an inorganic source of hydrocarbons." -- Michael D. Lewan, 2002

"There has not been any 'debate' about the origin of hydrocarbons for over a century. Competent physicists, chemists, chemical engineers and men knowledgeable of thermodynamics have known that natural petroleum does not evolve from biological material since the last quarter of the 19th century." -- Jack F. Kenney, 2002

"Natural petroleum has no connection with biological matter." -- Jack F. Kenney, 2001

"Even though the biogenic origin theory leads to many inconsistencies, it is nevertheless now impossible in the Western world to conduct any research in petroleum geology that implies a questioning of this accepted position." -- Thomas Gold, 1999

"The industry will never run out of oil, not in 10,000 years. Some day, it may run out of customers. Every mineral industry is a perpetual tug-of-war, between diminishing returns and increasing knowledge." -- Morris A. Adelman, 1997

"Neither we, nor our grandchildren, nor their grandchildren will live to see the end of the oil era." -- Karl-Heinz Schult-Bornemann, 1997

"The modern Russian-Ukrainian theory of deep, abiotic petroleum origins is not controversial nor presently a matter of academic debate. The period of debate about this extensive body of knowledge has been over for approximately two decades (Simakov 1986)." -- Jack F. Kenney, 1996

"The human mind is a lot like the human egg, and the human egg has a shut-off device. When o*ne sperm gets in, it shuts down so the next o*ne can't get in. The human mind has a big tendency of the same sort. And here again, it doesn't just catch ordinary mortals; it catches the deans of physics. According to Max Planck, the really innovative, important new physics was never really accepted by the old guard. Instead a new guard came along that was less brain-blocked by its previous conclusions. And if Max Planck's crowd had this consistency and commitment tendency that kept their old conclusions intact in spite of disconfirming evidence, you can imagine what the crowd that you and I are part of behaves like." -- Charles T. Munger, 1995

"Stable carbon isotopes are not a reliable criterion for distinguishing biogenic from non-biogenic petroleum." -- A.A. Giardini and Charles E. Melton, 1991

"The general concept of petroleum formation by biogenic mechanisms has been firmly entrenched for a long time, but there has been no accumulation of convincing experimental evidence in support of this belief." -- Charles E. Melton and A.A. Giardini, 1983

"The suggestion that petroleum might have arisen from some transformation of squashed fish or biological detritus is surely the silliest notion to have been entertained by substantial numbers of persons over an extended period of time." -- Fred Hoyle, 1982

"Next to nothing is known about the sources of the volatile components of magmas or how they are distributed and transported between the mantle and the shallow levels of the crust." -- Howel Williams, 1979

"Geology is the prisoner of several dogmas that have had widespread influence on the development of scientific thought." -- William R. Corliss, 1975

“Ideas are the life blood of the science of petroleum.” -- Hollis D. Hedberg, 1969

"Statistical thermodynamic analysis has established clearly that hydrocarbon molecules which comprise petroleum require very high pressures for their spontaneous formation, comparable to the pressures required for the same of diamond. In that sense, hydrocarbon molecules are the high-pressure polymorphs of the reduced carbon system as is diamond of elemental carbon. Any notion which might suggest that hydrocarbon molecules spontaneously evolve in the regimes of temperature and pressure characterized by the near-surface of the Earth, which are the regimes of methane creation and hydrocarbon destruction, does not even deserve consideration." -- Emmanuil B. Chekaliuk, 1968

"Geologists engaged in the search for oil and gas fields ought now to begin reappraising the facts at their disposal and analyzing them from positions of crustal fault tectonics." -- Ivan I. Chebanenko, 1966

"Actually it cannot be too strongly emphasized that petroleum does not present the composition picture expected from modified biogenic products, and all the arguments from the constituents of ancient oils fit equally well, or better, with the conception of a primordial hydrocarbon mixture to which bio-products have been added." -- Sir Robert Robinson, 1963

“Several times in the past we have thought we were running out of oil whereas actually we were only running out of ideas.” -- Parke A. Dickey, 1958

"The overwhelming preponderance of geological evidence compels the conclusion that crude oil and natural petroleum gas have no intrinsic connection with biological matter originating near the surface of the Earth. They are primordial materials which have been erupted from great depths." -- Vladimir B. Porfir'yev, 1956

"Volcanology is one of the oldest branches of geology; it is also one of the least developed." -- Howel Williams, 1953

"Oil is the creature of direct action of common earth forces on common earth materials." -- Wallace E. Pratt, 1942

"All the petroleum, natural gas, and bituminous fields or deposits cannot be regarded as anything else but the products of solfotaric volcanic emanations condensed and held in their passage upward in the porous tanks of all ages of the crust of the earth from the Archaean rocks to the Quaternary. Nothing is so simple and therefore nothing so natural as this origin, and we will see that it can be abundantly proven." -- Eugene Coste, 1903

"It is a singular and notable fact that, while most other branches of science have emancipated themselves from the trammels of metaphysical reasoning, the science of geology still remains imprisoned in 'a priori' theories." -- Sir Henry H. Howorth, 1895

"It is obvious that the total amount of petroleum in the rocks underlying the surface ... is large beyond computation." -- Edward Orton, 1888

"The capital fact to note is that petroleum was born in the depths of the Earth, and it is only there that we must seek its origin." -- Dmitri Mendeleyev, 1877

"It may be supposed that naphta was produced by the action of water penetrating through the crevices of the strata during the upheaval of mountain chains because water with iron carbide ought to give iron oxide and hydrocarbons." -- Dmitri Mendeleyev, 1877

"Whether naphta was formed by organic matter is very doubtful, as it is found in the most ancient Silurian [Ordovician] strata which correspond with the epochs of the earth's existence when there was very little organic matter; it could not penetrate from the higher to the lower (more ancient) strata as it floats on water (and water penetrates through all strata)." -- Dmitri Mendeleyev, 1877

"Petroleum is the product of a distillation from great depth and issues from the primitive rocks beneath which the forces of all volcanic action lie." -- Alexander Von Humboldt, 1804
 
So we can buy as much petrol as we like, then?

When are they going to make it freely available, since there's an infinite supply?
 
OilIsMastery said:
All oil is abiotic. See quotes above.
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If oil can form from carbon, why can't it form from biological sources of carbon? I already acknowledged the possibility of abiotic oil, where is your sense of scientific objectivity? I think you are blinded by ideological concerns or something.
 
spidergoat said:
If oil can form from carbon, why can't it form from biological sources of carbon?
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The Second Law of Thermodynamics: http://www.gasresources.net/ThrmcCnstrnts.htm

I already acknowledged the possibility of abiotic oil
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Congratulations. Welcome to 2008.

where is your sense of scientific objectivity?
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Scientific objectivity does not involve religious fundamentalist belief in invalid 18th century hypotheses.

I think you are blinded by ideological concerns or something.
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You're right. I'm blinded by my ideology, namely philosophy and reason.
 
It's not one or the other. There could be some limited abiotic oil forming, but since carbon is accumulated in much larger concentrations where biological organisms accumulated, that's where it forms the most. Therefore, the abiotic oil phenomenon is not relevent to the practical subject of our energy policies. Remember, in the formal debate on the subject you were crushed.
 
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spidergoat said:
It's not one or the other. There could be some limited abiotic oil forming, but since carbon is accumulated in much larger concentrations where biological organisms accumulated, that's where is forms the most.
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FYI the mantle is bigger than the crust. All of the carbon on earth and in the crust came from the mantle and volcanoes.

Therefore, the abiotic oil phenomenon is not relevent to the practical subject of our energy policies. Remember, in the formal debate on the subject you were crushed.
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LOL. I won the debate before I even responded.
 
OilIsMastery said:
No I'm an abiogenic theorist. Biogenic theorists believe in miracles and magic because that's the only way you can create complex hydrocarbons in the earth's crust with biological organisms.
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I am talking about your religion.
 
That's right, abiotic oil is his religion. It enables him to believe there is no energy crisis, that Democrats and mainstream scientists are all wrong, that there is no justification for environmentalism or sustainable energy research. All we need to do is keep on keepin' on, no sacrifice, no change- which is probably a comfortable worldview.
 
spidergoat said:
That's right, abiotic oil is his religion. It enables him to believe there is no energy crisis, that Democrats and mainstream scientists are all wrong, that there is no justification for environmentalism or sustainable energy research. All we need to do is keep on keepin' on, no sacrifice, no change- which is probably a comfortable worldview.
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Comfortable for someone that's completely ignorant..
His theories fit perfectly with Creation Theory.. and since he's religious.. :shrug:
 
Yup, the world was made for man, so of course God must have thought of providing us with all the energy we could desire.
 
The word for it is cornucopian. 50 years of cheap oil gives people this sense of hubris and entitlement.
 
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