Satori, enlightenment, awakening ...
- Thread starter G0D
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Yes, they exist.
Satori is the heart of Zen; an Awakening or Enlightenment. It is the Awakening to one's Original Face before one was born, to the ultimate reality of all. It is an Awakening of the Heart flowering into endless compassion for all beings.
Glimpses of truth, or satoris, are very common and are a natural state of being that all mature meditators experience for various durations. When a satori becomes permanent it is the first stage of enlightenment, the Self or Being is revealed and the ego dissolves.
Satoris are common; permanent awakening is much more rare.
Peace.
Satori is the heart of Zen; an Awakening or Enlightenment. It is the Awakening to one's Original Face before one was born, to the ultimate reality of all. It is an Awakening of the Heart flowering into endless compassion for all beings.
Glimpses of truth, or satoris, are very common and are a natural state of being that all mature meditators experience for various durations. When a satori becomes permanent it is the first stage of enlightenment, the Self or Being is revealed and the ego dissolves.
Satoris are common; permanent awakening is much more rare.
Peace.
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Hey! We agree on something right off.
There are enough anecdotal reports of experiences which closely resemble satori. Even more convincing is that these experiences are reported by ppl who were not meditating or trying for satori in the first place.
What I have trouble in accepting is the other stuff that comes along with accepting the concept of enlightenement. Stuff like -
karma - implying that retribution/justice exists.
rebirth - which implies a version of a "soul".
etc.
Yet, the "enlightened" have reported that these concepts exist, and that they are able to percieve them clearly.
What are your thoughts on these?
kmguru
Staff member
Attaining 'Satori' in mordern capitalistic world is difficult - especially while engaging in corporate accounting practices....if you can get off the rat race...the conditions are more favorable....
The grass does not grow on a well travelled path...
Biochemically, high amout of cortisol prevent such understanding...
The grass does not grow on a well travelled path...
Biochemically, high amout of cortisol prevent such understanding...
The concept of karma holds particular difficulty for many people, ecpecially Westerners. It's not easy for us to realize that we're the cause of our own pain, our own anger, that it's our responsibility to turn around our minds. Accepting karma means truly accepting responsibility for your own life, and today's cultural climate doesn't really encourage that.
Peace.
I hope you realise that you might as well just say "enlightenment", as that's what those other language words mean. Why not just use English words? And there is nothing about "Western" cultures which is less spitirual or whatever than romanticised impressions of "Eastern" cultures that some people hold. China, for example, was driven by feudal power, greed, and a rigid caste system, all VERY materialistic, for a very long time. To assume "Western" cultures are somehow not very spiritual is to completely ignore thousands of years of history.
That's a good way of describing karma, esp because it implies direct responsibility and not some sort of cosmic scorekeeping/scorekeeper. But the core of the problem is not addressed - ie. how does any "karmic debt" carry over into the "next life".
The key here is the rebirth/soul issue, I guess. I'm convinced (largely by reading posts here at sciforums
) that there is no such thing as a "soul" or anything which survives death. At the same time, I am equally convinced (from other sources) that satori exists. More precisely, a form of transcendance of our everyday mental states exists. It can come about spontaneously, or it could be brought about by meditation/etc.
The "enlightened" ppl report that they are able to "see" both karmic influence as well as re-birth. That would imply some sort of "soul". How could this be?
I did make that connection in my opening response. I stay with it as it was the word used in the topic. Additionally, satori is sometimes confused with Nibbana (Nirvana). Satoris are usually temporary while Nibbana is a permanent state of enlightenment, which ends the cycle of rebirth in samsara.
That is correct; I was not clear in my meaning. I was referring more to the inability of people (especially many in American society) to accept personal responsibility, as evidenced by the variety of legal defenses and ridiculous litigations that have become common in our court systems.
Peace.
For a report on a experience resembling satori, see RD Liang's "the politics of experience", where the author, who is a psychiatrist, describes the experiences of someone who "went crazy" for a period of 10 days.
Can anyone else suggest other sources for satori experiences? Preferably medically authenticated?
Can anyone else suggest other sources for satori experiences? Preferably medically authenticated?
Eastern Philosophy
Hmmm... I really don't think any of the following terms: "psychology, cognition, sociology, anthropology, archaeology" is applicable. (only in a very obscure or indirect way, maybe)
I suggest this discussion to be moved to Eastern Philosophy.
Hmmm... I really don't think any of the following terms: "psychology, cognition, sociology, anthropology, archaeology" is applicable. (only in a very obscure or indirect way, maybe)
I suggest this discussion to be moved to Eastern Philosophy.
Re: Re: Eastern Philosophy
My aim was to discuss alternate mental states [without] the baggage that religion might carry.
Goofyfish, you expressed an opinion that satori exists. What would you say induces it? Meditation?
Because some reports indicate that they happened to ppl spontaneously. Other reports indicate that the experiences induced by psychedelic drugs resemble satori.
IMO, there should be no difference in the quality of the experience if it was induced by drugs or if it was brought about by 10 years of meditation. Plus, a lot of time is saved.
I agree.Originally posted by goofyfish
Or we could stop haggling over location and just continue the discussion.
Peace.
My aim was to discuss alternate mental states [without] the baggage that religion might carry.
Goofyfish, you expressed an opinion that satori exists. What would you say induces it? Meditation?
Because some reports indicate that they happened to ppl spontaneously. Other reports indicate that the experiences induced by psychedelic drugs resemble satori.
IMO, there should be no difference in the quality of the experience if it was induced by drugs or if it was brought about by 10 years of meditation. Plus, a lot of time is saved.
goofyfish,
Why have you never told me that? I could have spoken to you using a more Eastern language...
That's why I blame so much capitalism...
It makes too hard to experience spiritual awakening...
Adam,
I don't see any spiritual history in US... do you...?
GOD,
Ok... I can do it... NO RELIGION. No dogma. Only interpretation...
ppl...?
They resemble satori... actually, you became temporarilly more aware using drugs... but you know what happen in the long run, don't you? Some ancient civilizations, like Mayas, used drugs with discipline to experience an state of awareness... but they had discipline for that.
Besides that, why do you think it takes years of meditation to increase your awareness (eventhough I took only about one year...)? You have to prepare your brain... Imagine if you born blind and suddenly start to see... You will become crazy!! Your brain will receive so much information at the same time that it won't be able to understand it without getting crazy! That's one of the effects of drugs. When you suddely get more awareness you get more confused because your brain was not prepared for that lenght of information.
What induces "satori"?
Meditation for Easterns...
Prayer for Westerns...
Depending on the Religion...
I succesfully attained an increased awareness using both of them. The second one happens when you pray for Peace and Love in the world. You can also make visualizations or affirmations. It works somewhat in the same way. Just think of "whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise".
Love,
Nelson
Why have you never told me that? I could have spoken to you using a more Eastern language...
That's why I blame so much capitalism...
It makes too hard to experience spiritual awakening...
Adam,
I don't see any spiritual history in US... do you...?
GOD,
Ok... I can do it... NO RELIGION. No dogma. Only interpretation...
ppl...?
They resemble satori... actually, you became temporarilly more aware using drugs... but you know what happen in the long run, don't you? Some ancient civilizations, like Mayas, used drugs with discipline to experience an state of awareness... but they had discipline for that.
Besides that, why do you think it takes years of meditation to increase your awareness (eventhough I took only about one year...)? You have to prepare your brain... Imagine if you born blind and suddenly start to see... You will become crazy!! Your brain will receive so much information at the same time that it won't be able to understand it without getting crazy! That's one of the effects of drugs. When you suddely get more awareness you get more confused because your brain was not prepared for that lenght of information.
What induces "satori"?
Meditation for Easterns...
Prayer for Westerns...
Depending on the Religion...
I succesfully attained an increased awareness using both of them. The second one happens when you pray for Peace and Love in the world. You can also make visualizations or affirmations. It works somewhat in the same way. Just think of "whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise".
Love,
Nelson
Originally posted by TruthSeeker
*"whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise".*
True!
It's all Karma!
Spoken as a woman from the West, meditating for years. Used to use drugs like LSD and the like. Prefer to go on my meditation. Become aware people. That it's only something for Eastern humans is BS.
Pity I found this thread just today. Oh well, I shall not bother you any longer.
Just one more point, how the hell can you even think Satori is to be found in the U$? Yes, now I'm living there, that's the difference.
Good Karma to you...
*"whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise".*
True!
It's all Karma!
Spoken as a woman from the West, meditating for years. Used to use drugs like LSD and the like. Prefer to go on my meditation. Become aware people. That it's only something for Eastern humans is BS.
Pity I found this thread just today. Oh well, I shall not bother you any longer.
Just one more point, how the hell can you even think Satori is to be found in the U$? Yes, now I'm living there, that's the difference.
Good Karma to you...
Banshee,
If you don't know... it's Philipians 4:8
Love,
Nelson
If you don't know... it's Philipians 4:8
Love,
Nelson
Nice the monks wrote it down in the bible Nelson. I don't really care where it's coming from. It is tue and the same message can be told by any person walking the Earth, without believing in god as a one man, only good, creator of mankind. (god did some rather cruel things in the old testament)
Buddhism does not have a one god almighty, they tell the story of real awareness and Love very perfect.
It are just other names, the same essence of words though.
Good Karma and Love to you...
Buddhism does not have a one god almighty, they tell the story of real awareness and Love very perfect.
It are just other names, the same essence of words though.
Good Karma and Love to you...