Russian Jets Buzz US Destroyer

[timojin]

I don't think you understood, that isn't the point. But our weapons are better in every respect. I'll reiterate once again for your edification. At what point to you draw the line? As long as there are no consequences for misbehavior, Mother Putina will continue to misbehave. He will continue to push the line. It's what fascist dictators do. It's what Hitler did. Unless you are willing to throw down our advanced and more abundant weaponry and just surrender, a line needs to be drawn. And every delay in drawing that line weakens your credibility. The Allied Powers did that with Hitler and the result was WWII. That's the point.

In addition to that, we do have better weapons and defense systems. We do have a bigger and better military. Why do we have them if we are just going to surrender to whomever has a nuclear weapon? Why don't we surrender to China or to India or Pakistan? They have nukes too. If you want to live in any of those countries, you should move there. You should live there.

Yeah, I have seen the destruction warfare can bring. I served during the Vietnam War. I know what war is. I lived through the Cold War and the Cuban Missile Crisis. As I told you before and explained why, one needs to draw lines in life, and this is one of them. We should learn from history.

PS: I have a son serving in the military. I have cousins who have served and have children serving in the military. My cousins and their children have served in Afghanistan and Iraq. So that dog won't hunt.

You are missing the point. Unless you are willing to surrender to anyone who has a nuclear weapon just because they have a nuclear weapon, a line needs to be drawn and it needs to be drawn early, because Mother Putina will not respect that line if we don't. Delay destroys our credibility.

Here is the question Who pushes the line , we or the Russian ? What business do we have to interfere in the case of Ukraina ? Since Gorbachow or relationship have constantly have grown with Russia , than we tried to introduce our homosexual policy into the east and it was shown at the winter olympics in Shuchi . Let East be the East and West be West. The line was drawn in the 15 th century along Roman Church and the defender of the Greek orthodox church . Napoleon invaded Russia, The Ottoman , invaded Russia , Hitler invaded Russia ,and now USA is intending to break down Russia .
I am sure the European can live and they lived with their neighbor for over 70 years , why do we have to meddle with their internal problem , We are over 7000 miles away, ( except in Alaska ) Lets do business like the defeated Japan or Germany , Did we succeeded militarily in Vietnam ? No. but after we stopped by pushing our policy . Now we are doing business.
The military man only things on his weapon , and so he is a parasite on his own society . In the name of defence he rippes off the budget . Newer mind I stop here .

 

[pjdude1219]

If you don't show that you aren't afraid of them then you are looking like a real loser.

just because we didn't end the world with our last game of brinkmanship doesn't mean it was a good idea. there is a difference between showing strength and escalating things.

hows the saying go... just because it worked doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid idea.

 

[joepistole]

Here is the question Who pushes the line , we or the Russian ? What business do we have to interfere in the case of Ukraina ? Since Gorbachow or relationship have constantly have grown with Russia , than we tried to introduce our homosexual policy into the east and it was shown at the winter olympics in Shuchi . Let East be the East and West be West. The line was drawn in the 15 th century along Roman Church and the defender of the Greek orthodox church . Napoleon invaded Russia, The Ottoman , invaded Russia , Hitler invaded Russia ,and now USA is intending to break down Russia .
I am sure the European can live and they lived with their neighbor for over 70 years , why do we have to meddle with their internal problem , We are over 7000 miles away, ( except in Alaska ) Lets do business like the defeated Japan or Germany , Did we succeeded militarily in Vietnam ? No. but after we stopped by pushing our policy . Now we are doing business.

I take it history isn't your strong point. Who illegally invaded, occupied and annexed the lands of its neighbors? Who has failed to abide by international law? The answer to those questions are very clear, definitive, and very simple. Beloved Mother Russia did those things and it used the same excuses Hitler used when he illegally invaded, occupied and annexed the lands of his neighbors.

This may come as a surprise to you, but there is something called international law. Just as domestic laws help us live together in peace, international laws help countries live together in peace. Your beloved Mother Russia has chosen not to live by those laws and that is a problem for all countries. Do you have any evidence the US tried to "push our homosexual policies in Mother Russia"? What the US and others did was to insist that homosexuals attending the Olympics not be harassed and persecuted while attending the event. If Russia wants to host the Olympics then it needs to accommodate the needs of its guests.

And just what did the US do to provoke the incident in question? It did absolutely nothing to provoke that dangerous display. The American commander would have been well within his rights to have shot down those warplanes. And in my view, he should have.

Yes there has been 70 years of peace in Europe thanks to NATO and American troops stationed in Europe. You keep forgetting all those inconvenient facts. Coincidentally, the American naval vessel in question was there participating in a joint operation with a NATO member. As for Vietnam, the US did succeed militarily in Vietnam. But it failed politically, and that has nothing to do with the issue here.

The military man only things on his weapon , and so he is a parasite on his own society . In the name of defence he rippes off the budget . Newer mind I stop here .

LOL....and you know this how? A "military man only things on his weapon".....what the hell does that mean? So you think the founding fathers were parasites on society do you? You think all those men and women who fought in WWII were parasites. Those "parasites" exist to protect your freedoms and American commerce.

Additionally, the military doesn't fund itself. Congress funds the military. It's that constitution thingy. You should read it some time. The military doesn't fix its budget, congress does. Congress tells the US military how much to spend and how it will be spent. And every dollar spent is audited by the inspector general. The bottom line here is your ignorance is showing.

I guess you believe the US should just surrender to the first nuclear power who demands it do so. We could surrender to Mother Russia as you think we should do. But then that doesn't stop nuclear war, because Mother Russia still wouldn't be the only nuclear power. The United Kingdom, Israel, China, India, Pakistan are all nuclear powers. It just makes it more horrific and probably much more likely. And somehow, I just don't think those other nuclear powers would be as willing to surrender to Mother Putina as you are.

As I have said several times now, we should learn from history. We shouldn't mindlessly repeat the mistakes of the past. The US was an isolationist country prior to WWI and WWII. It didn't work.

 

[timojin]

I take it history isn't your strong point. Who illegally invaded, occupied and annexed the lands of its neighbors? Who has failed to abide by international law? The answer to those questions are very clear, definitive, and very simple. Beloved Mother Russia did those things and it used the same excuses Hitler used when he illegally invaded, occupied and annexed the lands of his neighbors.

This may come as a surprise to you, but there is something called international law. Just as domestic laws help us live together in peace, international laws help countries live together in peace. Your beloved Mother Russia has chosen not to live by those laws and that is a problem for all countries. Do you have any evidence the US tried to "push our homosexual policies in Mother Russia"? What the US and others did was to insist that homosexuals attending the Olympics not be harassed and persecuted while attending the event. If Russia wants to host the Olympics then it needs to accommodate the needs of its guests.

And just what did the US do to provoke the incident in question? It did absolutely nothing to provoke that dangerous display. The American commander would have been well within his rights to have shot down those warplanes. And in my view, he should have.

Yes there has been 70 years of peace in Europe thanks to NATO and American troops stationed in Europe. You keep forgetting all those inconvenient facts. Coincidentally, the American naval vessel in question was there participating in a joint operation with a NATO member. As for Vietnam, the US did succeed militarily in Vietnam. But it failed politically, and that has nothing to do with the issue here.



LOL....and you know this how? A "military man only things on his weapon".....what the hell does that mean? So you think the founding fathers were parasites on society do you? You think all those men and women who fought in WWII were parasites. Those "parasites" exist to protect your freedoms and American commerce.

Additionally, the military doesn't fund itself. Congress funds the military. It's that constitution thingy. You should read it some time. The military doesn't fix its budget, congress does. Congress tells the US military how much to spend and how it will be spent. And every dollar spent is audited by the inspector general. The bottom line here is your ignorance is showing.

I guess you believe the US should just surrender to the first nuclear power who demands it do so. We could surrender to Mother Russia as you think we should do. But then that doesn't stop nuclear war, because Mother Russia still wouldn't be the only nuclear power. The United Kingdom, Israel, China, India, Pakistan are all nuclear powers. It just makes it more horrific and probably much more likely. And somehow, I just don't think those other nuclear powers would be as willing to surrender to Mother Putina as you are.

As I have said several times now, we should learn from history. We shouldn't mindlessly repeat the mistakes of the past. The US was an isolationist country prior to WWI and WWII. It didn't work.

Before anything take out of your mind , Russia is not my beloved mother land . You are starting to talk like a fascist. Next let keep in mind when the International law went in effect .
Let's clear about Vietnam : Why did we go into Vietnam, How did we treat the "GOOKS " Was your military victory of any value of over 50000 America soldiers dead and over 120000 wounded and millions of gooks killed . Now that the invaders ( France and American ) are out . Let the local people decide their course of life .( Is it not that the American Philosophy )
You are silly " the military doesn't fund itself. Congress funds the military." Who comes with budget . ( 1/3 ) or total national budged
Please don't wrap yourself withe the flag. You want to discuss so let discus , I am an American, probable live in this land longer the you are alive.
Yes we should have learned from history , So why did we got into Iraq, Afghanistan , Yemen , Eritrea, Syria, Georgia, Ukraina , Panama , Cuba , Granada. What next ?
There no one is saying to surrender . I would protect my shores , that is what the Navy is fore
" And every dollar spent is audited by the inspector general. The bottom line here is your ignorance is showing." yes I am ignorant , when a toilet seat will cost over thousand dollars and you are smart because you approve that.
Next NATO since are so well informed . When was nato created and what was the objective ?
The world Communism ended with Gorbachev , why do we need it for.
Keep on talking there are more dirty underwear, that can be brought to light
I think it is wrong to provoke one superpower the other . Take history why did the USA got into WWII,

 

[joepistole]

Before anything take out of your mind , Russia is not my beloved mother land . You are starting to talk like a fascist. Next let keep in mind when the International law went in effect .

Oh no Mother Russia isn't your beloved motherland, you just love to support fascists. I got it. What do you mean "when international law went into effect". The invasion, occupation and annexation of the lands of your neighbors as Mother Russia has done has long been held to be a violation on international law. Do you not know we have an international judicial system or a set of international laws?

Let's clear about Vietnam : Why did we go into Vietnam, How did we treat the "GOOKS " Was your military victory of any value of over 50000 America soldiers dead and over 120000 wounded and millions of gooks killed . Now that the invaders ( France and American ) are out . Let the local people decide their course of life .( Is it not that the American Philosophy )

Yes, let's be clear about Vietnam. Vietnam has nothing to do with Mother Russia's aggression and violation of international laws.

You are silly " the military doesn't fund itself. Congress funds the military." Who comes with budget . ( 1/3 ) or total national budged
Please don't wrap yourself withe the flag. You want to discuss so let discus , I am an American, probable live in this land longer the you are alive.

Well, the US Constitution isn't silly. Congress funds the military. If you are an American, I suggest you read the US Constitution. So your assertions to the contrary are nonsensical and ignorant.

Yes we should have learned from history , So why did we got into Iraq, Afghanistan , Yemen , Eritrea, Syria, Georgia, Ukraina , Panama , Cuba , Granada. What next ?

What do you mean "got into"? For starters the US doesn't have troops in Eritrea, Yemen, Granada, Cuba, Panama, and Ukraine. As previously pointed out to you the US has commercial interests all over the globe. The US uses its military to further its diplomatic and commercial interests. It's what world powers do. Countries with vast commercial interests do have military forces to protect its foreign interests.

And if you have lived as long as you claim to have lived, you should know why the US invaded Afghanistan and Iraq. It invaded Afghanistan to seek out and destroy Bin Ladin because he launched multiple attacks on America and killed thousands of Americans. Iraq was invaded in order to enforce UN sanctions against Iraq.

Like it or not, as previously stated, isolationism doesn't work. It didn't prevent WWI or WWII.

There no one is saying to surrender . I would protect my shores , that is what the Navy is fore

Oh, you just want us to do whatever Mother Russia wants us to do because, you know, they have nuclear weapons and they might use them. But you don't want to call that a surrender. You just want us to become a vassal state.

Additionally, that's not what he Navy is for. That's what the Army is for. If the enemy is showing up on our shores that's far too late for the US Navy to become involved. That's what the US Coast Guard is for, to defend the US Coastal areas. That's why it is called the Coast Guard.

As previously pointed out to you isolationism didn't work. It was tried, and it didn't prevent WWI or WWII.

" And every dollar spent is audited by the inspector general. The bottom line here is your ignorance is showing." yes I am ignorant , when a toilet seat will cost over thousand dollars and you are smart because you approve that.

Hmm...and how do you think we learned about that thousand dollar toilet seat? By the way, I'd didn't approve that. Fraud is quite common in private industry as well. Early on in my career, I worked as an auditor for a Fortune 500 company. It happens more than most people realize. And it happens in government too. But that doesn't mean government and private companies shouldn't do what they do. It doesn't make government or private industry parasites as you had alleged.

Next NATO since are so well informed . When was nato created and what was the objective ?
The world Communism ended with Gorbachev , why do we need it for.
Keep on talking there are more dirty underwear, that can be brought to light
I think it is wrong to provoke one superpower the other . Take history why did the USA got into WWII,

Dirty underwear.....? I'd be satisfied with some reasoned fact based discussion. We got into WWII because Nazi Germany declared war on the US and Japan attacked Hawaii. Now if you want to rationalize and attempt to offer excuses for Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan, fine. I expect it given your love of fascism. But that doesn't change the facts or history.

NATO was created to prevent another world war in Europe, and to that end it has been successful. After two world wars beginning in Europe, it was time to put in place measures which would prevent or inhibit another world war. And to that end, NATO has been very successful.

Yes, the Soviet Union ended. But unfortunately, the threat hasn't as evidenced by Putin's repeated invasions, occupation and annexations of lands of his neighbors - repeating everything Hitler did and which led to WWII even down to the excuses he offers for his transgressions. Thank God, those facts have not been lost on Europe or North America.

Here is something else for you to think about, there is only one superpower in the world today and that is the US. The Soviet Union no longer exists and Mother Russia is no super power. It is a shadow of its former self. It is out-maned and out gunned. It's weapons are better than what they were, but so are those of the US and its allies.

As much as you dislike it, the US and Western powers were right to sanction Mother Russia for its illegal invasions, occupation and annexation of neighboring states. It was right to terminate Russia's access to Western technologies which would allow it to continue developing its military. That's what history tells us. If the West had acted earlier to prevent Hitler from invading, occupying and annexing the lands of his neighbors, there may not have been a WWII. Appeasement doesn't work.

The US hasn't provoked Mother Russia. The American naval vessel was in international waters. It was Russian fighters who buzzed the American warship. Russian warplanes have been routinely violating the airspace of NATO nations. Russian warplanes have endangered commercial aircraft. Those are some of that "dirty laundry" you don't want to excuse or ignore.