"Regime Change"

[robsaunders]

I take the points: sure, we should be beyond biodeterminism; sure, my expression is pessimistic in the extreme in places; sure, absolutely it is to be hoped that these are still the early growing pangs, look at how short a time we have really been around.

But, is it fair to say we have come so far.

At the back of it all, two thirds of the worlds population (4 billion who have the same mitochondrial DNA as you) exist in nightmarish conditions. Even while the air of LA is slowly clearing of smog. No offence, but well it might. Do you know what the GNP of California is like relative to the continent of Africa?

Come sit in the shanties on the outskirts of Sao Paulo and see how long your view lasts.

I could ask how many children have died of starvation while we write. Do you think their fathers think we have come far.

While the majority of the world is starving to death, when we have never been so equipped with the sciences and understandings we now have, it is my humble opinion that we have come no distance at all.

 

[cyborgrrl]

Originally posted by robsaunders
At the back of it all, two thirds of the worlds population (4 billion who have the same mitochondrial DNA as you) exist in nightmarish conditions. Even while the air of LA is slowly clearing of smog. No offence, but well it might. Do you know what the GNP of California is like relative to the continent of Africa?

You're dead right about that, rob. I didn't mean to say that I thought we'd 'progressed' or come any kind of distance. I just meant that blaming biology for "the way were are" is kind of a cop-out, in my opinion.

 

[cyborgrrl]

pessimism

(unfortunately) rob, pessimism tends to be a sign of intelligence

if only the really intelligent people, like you, would focus their energies on something constructive, rather than on deconstruction



-cyborg girl

 

[Salty]

Your "interest groups" are also a major problem. I'm a big supporter of gay rights, feminism, anti-racism, and I do quite a bit of work in those arenas, so please don't take what I'm about to say the wrong way. Identity politics are a really big problem. Because politics become specialized and personalized, they become like clothes you wear - and they become ineffectual. Dividing gays rights people from feminists from anti-racists from environmentalists only divides the efforts of the masses and makes the ruling class stronger. We "divide and conquer" ourselves! For example, a black woman is supposed to decide which cause she wants to support - anti-racism, or feminism. Imagine how powerful it would be if anti-racists, feminists, etc., etc. all worked together with the same goals in mind! But no - instead, we separate into our own little specialized groups and accomplish, really, nothing.

This is why PACs support a party (ie. democrats, republicans)

This next part you kinda contradict yourself

That's why I was involved with socialists for a while. Anti-racism, feminism, gay rights, etc. were inherent in the definition of being a socialist. So was internationalism, in the group I was with - and nationalism is an UGLY force in America right now. While other groups were squabbling about who got their name plastered on the posters of an anti-war event, the socialists I was with were just concerned with getting everyone together. Like, there were times when two different groups had planned competing anti-war protests for the same day in different locations, and the International Socialist Organization would be like, "Come on guys, this is dumb. It's much more effective to have one BIG protest than some scattered little ones that are disconnected" - and they usually got people to work together.

The Right is not pro-racism or anything they just really on the other institutions to solve problems. Socialist just realy on the goverment to cause these changes. It confuses me that you find such detest for our goverments inability and coruption then you say your a socialist. PACs dont go away in a socialist society even if they are made illegal. Like drugs they go underground. Which is a really bad thing. :bugeye:

You know, our ancestors struggled on the plains of Africa. Our original home. (and look what we did to that as payback) They struggled to survive. They struggled to eat, they struggled to drink, they struggled to find shelter, they struggled to find heat.

This is because of british french and portugese colonialism. the US was a colony also back in the day to but we had good leadership we put to practice the greatest sociology experiment.

Things aren't the same as they always were. There is a much greater disparity between the rich and powerful and the impoverished and oppressed. It's easy to imagine that it's the same, because we're used to thinking in binary terms - rich is just "rich" and poor is just "poor". We're led to believe that America is pretty much mostly middle class, and that is SO far from the truth. Everyone is taught to think of themselves as middle class, even if they're struggling because their job doesn't quite pay enough for them to make their bills and they don't have any health insurance - they'll still max out their credit card to buy an SUV to FEEL like they're middle class.

Actually in the United States there it is not that bad as alot of other countries. You only have to make something like 124,000 a year to be in the top 10% of the united states. So thates like good doctors and lawyers. The reason why there is alot people not in that group is because there are people like me just starting out, imigrants, children, sutdents, hermits, and derilics.

Leave aside this 'war' for the moment. Your discussion regarding PAC's indicate an incisive mind, aware of the complexities of the structures needed for the organisation of civilised society. What then is your opinion on the long-term consequences of every International Treaty of consequence being torn up or disregarded by the present administration. If Iraq never existed, I can assure you that the feelings and opinions of many of the world's people would not be very much different.

Treaties are worthless. Trade is what keeps the peace. You can write on a paper that I won't attack you but if im not making money there is no reason for me to follow it.

And finally, I feel angered by your dismissive tone regarding the parlimentary process. The arrogance you suggest with your tone does you no justice!

Parlimentary goverment is not nearly as good of a safe guard against tyranny. Instead of 3 branches with checks and balaces to safe guard each other parliment has only 1 branch and a Prime Minister. It does not have any thing like the Judicial Branch so public opinions can be more dangerous then a tyrrant ruler.'

I think alot your concerns in this thread would be solved if Federalism was stronger in the United States like it was when it was founded. Then local and state goverments would have more power and there would be more parties to choose.

 

[fireguy_31]

of 3 branches with checks and balaces to safe guard each other parliment has only 1 branch and a Prime Minister. It does not have any thing like the Judicial Branch so public opinions can be more dangerous then a tyrrant ruler.'

Salty, I'm sorry but your analysis of the parliamentary system, and its safeguards, is inaccurate. The supreme power lies with the Governer General, the supreme judiciary has powers to influence legislation, and a government can be removed fairly easily if warranted.

 

[Salty]

Originally posted by fireguy_31
Salty, I'm sorry but your analysis of the parliamentary system, and its safeguards, is inaccurate. The supreme power lies with the Governer General, the supreme judiciary has powers to influence legislation, and a government can be removed fairly easily if warranted.

Thats the bad part you dont want a pure democracy. It still dose not nearly have the checks and balances of the 3 branch system of the united states.

 

[spookz]

Re: pessimism

Originally posted by cyborgrrl
(unfortunately) rob, pessimism tends to be a sign of intelligence

if only the really intelligent people, like you, would focus their energies on something constructive, rather than on deconstruction



-cyborg girl

ahh spunky youth
i applaud you guys. an excellent crop this time around i must say

 

[spookz]

robsaunders

But, is it fair to say we have come so far.

nope i see no need to indulge in self congralulatory pats on the back when it is obvious so much more that could have been done, was abandoned or put off for another time

Do you know what the GNP of California is like relative to the continent of Africa?

hmm. it is impossible for me to defend the status quo as far as africa is concerned.

Come sit in the shanties on the outskirts of Sao Paulo and see how long your view lasts

closest i got to a favela was watching "city of god". perhaps you would like elaborate on what you would like to be done here. should i go beat their leaders for turning an "almost first world nation" into shit? how much responsibilty do you want others to take for decisions that they make? how much blame do the industrialized countries have to bear on this?

I could ask how many children have died of starvation while we write. Do you think their fathers think we have come far.

cheap shot: stop fucking dad! you live in a hovel, cant afford to feed yourself and you get the missus pregnant?

look the way i see it is to make sure that adequate funding is available for npo's and other int orgs to do their job. everything is already on paper, the plans have been drawn up and are awaiting implementation. the battle to be fought is at the local level.

dilemma dilemma, a new weapons system or feed the starving. feed the starving or a new weapons system

 

[hypewaders]

Let's flip a coin. But don't use Dick Chedey's- it's got a chickenhawk on both sides.