Reality check on Mars colonies

[Ken Fabian]

Hard to see the longterm appeal of any habitat that doesn't somewhat recreate a terrestrial environment. If you want a colony that's a cross section of humanity, from all walks of life, it would probably include a fair number who aren't interested in living underground all the time. The problem with Green's terraform scheme is not just gases, but the solar wind deflector. Another ex-NASA guy, David Hammen, estimated you would need a terawatt to maintain the magnetic shield at around Earth equivalent of 0.5 Gauss. Something like 50 Three Gorges Dams.

Well, it doesn't appeal to me, but clearly there are people who do find the prospect enticing. Could be good to visit - although even that looks un-enticing - but living there? No.

I think too much of the enthusiasm relies on false expectations. Whether Mr Musk is sincere in his Mars ambitions or not I am convinced he is not going to push SpaceX into bankruptcy with unworkable colony attempts; I suspect he would much prefer SpaceX do Mars missions as contractors to taxpayer funded missions, that SpaceX gets paid to do. I'm not convinced that being misleading about the prospects, to sustain popular support for taxpayer space programs that use contractors is entirely ethical. The principle commercial opportunities in space are all local to Earth, servicing Earth needs and Earth customers. Much of that is taxpayer funded contracts. Beyond that is ONLY taxpayer funded contracts.

If it is commercial potential we look for - and I think nothing less will kickstart anything in space that will be self-sustaining - then asteroid nickel-iron is the standout space commodity of value and interest. I'm not convinced the economics of space station living will be much better than Mars, but a mining/refining operation will likely make things like stockpiles of excess iron and nickel (leftover from extracting PGM's) as well as carbonaceous material, water ice, silicate rocks, sulphides, all that could be put to other uses. A space colony wouldn't be self supporting there either but with access to those it may have much reduced start up costs.

Actually, the moons of Mars have more appeal to me than Mars itself - combining ongoing study of Mars with studying objects that are, for all intents and purposes, asteroids. For a viable space economy the significance of planets may be for resources that are important but only occur in useful concentrations where hydro-thermally active planetary histories have occurred, ie Earth and possibly Mars. I suspect Uranium or other fissionable elements would be an example, ie asteroids may not have everything an advanced economy requires either.

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Send Elon to Mars as soon as possible

 

[Hercules Rockefeller]

I don’t disagree that the economics of Mars missions is dire. But there are tangible scientific benefits to space exploration, not just in aerospace but many scientific disciplines. NASA has its Spinoff publications as part of their Technology Transfer Program. I’ve found some interesting reading in there.

https://spinoff.nasa.gov/spinoff/archives

I don’t see why a Mars mission wouldn’t provide the same technology transfer benefits that Lunar, Earth orbit and robotic probe missions do.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Sometimes I think of gatekeepers. "You can't talk about that because it can't be done right now." I should have prefaced my post with "if you don't think this will work you don't HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT."

 

[Luchito]

I don't buy it, I simply don't.

It is not about money or instruments and spacecraft technologies, but about how well we survive in space. Just going to the space station means having a spherical heart, That is a lot. The body changes a lot. The astronauts return with a modified DNA, no they don't come converted as roaches, but their DNA suffered changes. Osteoporosis increases greatly, no matter if they do exercises, it is not their motion inside the spaceship but the no gravity what changes the game.

What about Mars gravity?

What about Mars climate?

I see President Trump looking for the robberies made with taxpayers' money. Also, how he appears to be against his best friend when giving more preference to gas fueled cars instead of electric ones like Tesla. And his friend Elon Musk happy as hell with it.

Something fishing here. In his first term, President Trump provided lots of funds to NASA, and what, what NASA returned in exchange? While China, Japan, India were sending spacecrafts to space, the Moon and etc, NASA in exchange was just taking pictures of the Universe, that surely are manipulated to be sold, otherwise nothing to learn over there. They said they discovered a planet like earth somewhere in another galaxy. sure NASA, sure, nobody can argue their lie, they own the telescope. And funnier, black holes were supposed to be detected solely with special instruments or lenses or whatever, but NASA says to have catch one with their "naked eye" telescope, a rare black hole*. If they don't lie they won't sale.
(*It was in one article of news appearing in my laptop when turning it on, perhaps one of those fake news that are posted usually by communication companies to fill up space in their pages).

NASA organized a competition for best Mars colony design for when astronauts reach Mars one day. Ha ha ha ha. What a joke, what a stupidity. But such a joke collected millions of dollars from the US treasure taxpayer money providing funds to NASA... Tell me about Zelensky doing the same with US treasure taxpayer money sent to Ukraine.

Elon Musk can't even reach the middle atmosphere with his best spacecrafts because these fall, but he is talking of traveling to Mars on year 2050.

30 years from now is a lot of years. Most of guys here are gone at that time. Elon Musk will be buried but his son will be the richest dude in the world thanks to the billions Trump and Musk will invest in such fraud called "traveling and colonizing planet Mars".

I'll tell you this, guys challenge Elon Musk to send astronauts to the Moon before Trump ends his presidential term. If Elon Musk can do that, then there is a possibility that this project on Mars is not fraud.

But, if such traveling to the Moon is not possible in a few years, then do not spend a single penny in a fraud.

Going to Mars is a giant step, so do the smaller step first... for the first time as well, I bet he won't take the challenge. He won't because he can't do what he says, the whole thing is fraud.

 

[billvon]

I don't buy it, I simply don't.

It is not about money or instruments and spacecraft technologies, but about how well we survive in space. Just going to the space station means having a spherical heart, That is a lot. The body changes a lot. The astronauts return with a modified DNA, no they don't come converted as roaches, but their DNA suffered changes. Osteoporosis increases greatly, no matter if they do exercises, it is not their motion inside the spaceship but the no gravity what changes the game.

What about Mars gravity?

What about Mars climate?

I see President Trump looking for the robberies made with taxpayers' money. Also, how he appears to be against his best friend when giving more preference to gas fueled cars instead of electric ones like Tesla. And his friend Elon Musk happy as hell with it.

Something fishing here. In his first term, President Trump provided lots of funds to NASA, and what, what NASA returned in exchange? While China, Japan, India were sending spacecrafts to space, the Moon and etc, NASA in exchange was just taking pictures of the Universe, that surely are manipulated to be sold, otherwise nothing to learn over there. They said they discovered a planet like earth somewhere in another galaxy. sure NASA, sure, nobody can argue their lie, they own the telescope. And funnier, black holes were supposed to be detected solely with special instruments or lenses or whatever, but NASA says to have catch one with their "naked eye" telescope, a rare black hole*. If they don't lie they won't sale.
(*It was in one article of news appearing in my laptop when turning it on, perhaps one of those fake news that are posted usually by communication companies to fill up space in their pages).

NASA organized a competition for best Mars colony design for when astronauts reach Mars one day. Ha ha ha ha. What a joke, what a stupidity. But such a joke collected millions of dollars from the US treasure taxpayer money providing funds to NASA... Tell me about Zelensky doing the same with US treasure taxpayer money sent to Ukraine.

Elon Musk can't even reach the middle atmosphere with his best spacecrafts because these fall, but he is talking of traveling to Mars on year 2050.

30 years from now is a lot of years. Most of guys here are gone at that time. Elon Musk will be buried but his son will be the richest dude in the world thanks to the billions Trump and Musk will invest in such fraud called "traveling and colonizing planet Mars".

I'll tell you this, guys challenge Elon Musk to send astronauts to the Moon before Trump ends his presidential term. If Elon Musk can do that, then there is a possibility that this project on Mars is not fraud.

But, if such traveling to the Moon is not possible in a few years, then do not spend a single penny in a fraud.

Going to Mars is a giant step, so do the smaller step first... for the first time as well, I bet he won't take the challenge. He won't because he can't do what he says, the whole thing is fraud.

A few things.

One, going to the Moon first is dumb (unless you want to go there for some other reason.) We know we can get there. We've done it. It's not easier to get to Mars after we go to the Moon. It's like saying you can't go to Antarctica unless you go to the North Pole first.

Two, yes, space changes you. That's what we learned from the Space Station, and that's invaluable information for a longer trip (like one to Mars.) We know, for example, that it's possible to re-adapt to the Earth's gravity after being in zero gravity for over a year. A Mars trip will be closer to six months and they will have to adapt to a lower gravity at the end of the trip. So there are no purely biological reasons that such a trip would not be doable.

Gravity is lower than Earth's, which is easier to adapt to. The climate is not compatible with human beings, so any surface excursion will have to use a pressure suit. It does, however, have an atmosphere, which provides both oxygen and radiation shielding for people there.

NASA DID detect a black hole, and even provided a picture of it. Google it.

" what NASA returned in exchange?" Invaluable scientific information. That information on long term living in space, for example. Some others, from the ISS alone:

-Research into Alzheimer’s Disease. Parkinson’s Disease. Cancer. Asthma. Heart Disease.
-Discovery of a new combustion mode ("cool combustion.")
-Better water purification systems.
-Protein crystallization for treatment of muscular dystrophy
-Production of the fifth state of matter (a BEC)
-Food growth in zero G

"Elon Musk can't even reach the middle atmosphere" No idea what that means. He has already sent spacecraft to Mars orbit.

" there is a possibility that this project on Mars is not fraud." You define "fraud" as "projects that can't be completed in four years?" The first government act to fund building a coast-to-coast highway was signed in 1916. The first coast-to-coast highway was completed in 1986. Is the US highway system a fraud?

"I see President Trump looking for the robberies" You think Trump is trying to "find robberies?" Bless your heart.

"his friend Elon Musk happy as hell with it." The government organization Musk controls just sent Musk a $38 billion dollar check. So yes, he's happy as hell about that money. Enough checks like that and he won't care one bit about whether Tesla tanks or not.