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Questions about differences in atoms?
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Jocce said:I'm sure that you, yourself, already pasted the following from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics in one of the forums we've had this discussion:
"Thermodynamics (from the Greek thermos meaning heat and dynamis meaning power) is a branch of physics that studies the effects of changes in temperature, pressure, and volume on physical systems at the macroscopic scale by analyzing the collective motion of their particles using statistics. "
Bolding mine to make it easier for kumar to pick out the relevant words.
Yes thanks, as that also tells a collective motion.
"Macroscopic is commonly used to describe physical objects that are measurable and observable by the naked eye. When applied to phenomena and abstract objects, it describes existence in the world as we perceive it. The term macroscopic may also refer to a "larger view", namely a view only available from a large perspective.
Examples
A macroscopic view of a ball is just that: a ball. A microscopic view could reveal a thick round skin seemingly composed entirely of puckered cracks and fissures (as viewed through a microscope) or, further down in scale, a collection of molecules in the rough shape of a sphere.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macroscopic "
Collective motion is made up of aggregate of individual motions and can be dependent on individual motions of all its constituent atoms, molecules or particles.
The starting point for most thermodynamic considerations are the laws of thermodynamics, which postulate that energy can be exchanged between physical systems as heat or work. They also postulate the existence of a quantity named entropy, which can be defined for any system. In thermodynamics, interactions between large ensembles of objects are studied and categorized. Central to this are the concepts of system and surroundings. A system is composed of particles, whose average motions define its properties, which in turn are related to one another through equations of state. Properties can be combined to express internal energy and thermodynamic potentials are useful for determining conditions for equilibrium and spontaneous processes.
With these tools, thermodynamics describes how systems respond to changes in their surroundings.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermodynamics
jocce, I am not very much technical, but does above quote not indicate enerything?
Nawww...you don't say?Kumar said:jocce, I am not very much technical
No, it does not indicate everything (if that is what you mean). Whatever it is you mean.Kumar said:but does above quote not indicate enerything?
The interesting thing kumar, is that it has come to a point where one can be 100% certain that whatever you say is complete and utter nonsense.
Furthermore one can be completely sure that however much energy one spends on trying to explain the simplest concepts to you, you will inevitably find a way to misinterpret and misuse it outside the proper context.
You are turning into a natural law in your own right.
jocce, it is cleary defined in that quote:-
"A system is composed of particles, whose average motions define its properties, which in turn are related to one another through equations of state. Properties can be combined to express internal energy and thermodynamic potentials are useful for determining conditions for equilibrium and spontaneous processes.With these tools, thermodynamics describes how systems respond to changes in their surroundings"
How can you say that individual motions, their equation of states and response to changes in their surroundings is not relevant?
"A system is composed of particles, whose average motions define its properties, which in turn are related to one another through equations of state. Properties can be combined to express internal energy and thermodynamic potentials are useful for determining conditions for equilibrium and spontaneous processes.With these tools, thermodynamics describes how systems respond to changes in their surroundings"
How can you say that individual motions, their equation of states and response to changes in their surroundings is not relevant?
I don't say that. What I have been trying to explain to you numerous times now is that the resultant state will be a function of the TEMPERATURE OF THE ROOM, not on how you shake the bottle. Move the bottle to another room and it changes again.
You are trying to find something that cause persistant change. Shaking a bottle doesn't do that. That you don't understand that is truly amazing.
You are trying to find something that cause persistant change. Shaking a bottle doesn't do that. That you don't understand that is truly amazing.
Jocce said:What happens is exactly the same as when this is done for other purposes than make homeopathic snakeoil. It is well understood.
I don't know, what for you are asking. Whatever may be the motive, is ir not to know in science?
CANGAS said:Kumar:
Begging is when the questioner never proposes a position, but always asks anyone for the answer.
If you are writing your theory, then WRITE YOUR OWN THEORY. Don't beg me or anyone else to do it for you.
Well, I can only speak for myself. Anyone else can write a theory for Kumar all they want to.
Kumar, Sayonara. CANGAS has left your building.
Many people are asking questions here. Do you say and claim that all those are beggers? I may have to clear it with all who are asking questions here and who are replying here, in a seprate topic as most asking questions may not like to be called as beggers?
Kumar, here's a suggestion.Kumar said:I don't know, what for you are asking. Whatever may be the motive, is ir not to know in science?
Make a major effort to state clearly where you are trying to go with all this. You've wandered all around various aspects of atoms/molecules and their energy levels. Can you possibly come directly to the crux of it?
Hello Light,
Central to the Thermodynamic are the concepts of system and surroundings. System can be where to or more entities are integral parts of that system--may it be two joined fundamental forces, two elementary particle, matter and energy, a thing or a being. Except one prime force nothing can be said as absolute microscopic. Right?
Surrounding is defined as the surroundings, or environment, are anything not part of the system. They are separated from the system by a real or imaginary boundary. Together with the system, they make up the Universe.The surroundings do not contain any processes of interest. However, they can usually exchange energy and sometimes even matter with the system, influencing the processes that occur there.
I have a question anout energy exchange on moleculer interactions by
contacts:-
M.W of NaCl =58.443
M.W. of H2O=18.015
M.W of C6H12O6=180.157
In view of E=mc^2,
E of NaCl = 58.443 c^2
E of H2O = 18.015 c^2
E of C6H12O6= 180.157 c^2
Since energy and matter can be converted into each other, molecules can be considered as a concentrated or complex form ofenergy AND energy as a diluted or simple form of matter, In view of this and of above system and surrounding interpretations and of energy balance and energy tend to move from higher level to lower level and there can be some "equibilirium tendancy" or exchange of energy, when any of these molecules come into close contacts with each other.
As energy exchange looks to be quite logical and possible, my simple question is:-
What such "equibilirium tendancy" between two molecules on coming them
in very close contact to each other can cause and change in molecules
of each other?
Central to the Thermodynamic are the concepts of system and surroundings. System can be where to or more entities are integral parts of that system--may it be two joined fundamental forces, two elementary particle, matter and energy, a thing or a being. Except one prime force nothing can be said as absolute microscopic. Right?
Surrounding is defined as the surroundings, or environment, are anything not part of the system. They are separated from the system by a real or imaginary boundary. Together with the system, they make up the Universe.The surroundings do not contain any processes of interest. However, they can usually exchange energy and sometimes even matter with the system, influencing the processes that occur there.
I have a question anout energy exchange on moleculer interactions by
contacts:-
M.W of NaCl =58.443
M.W. of H2O=18.015
M.W of C6H12O6=180.157
In view of E=mc^2,
E of NaCl = 58.443 c^2
E of H2O = 18.015 c^2
E of C6H12O6= 180.157 c^2
Since energy and matter can be converted into each other, molecules can be considered as a concentrated or complex form ofenergy AND energy as a diluted or simple form of matter, In view of this and of above system and surrounding interpretations and of energy balance and energy tend to move from higher level to lower level and there can be some "equibilirium tendancy" or exchange of energy, when any of these molecules come into close contacts with each other.
As energy exchange looks to be quite logical and possible, my simple question is:-
What such "equibilirium tendancy" between two molecules on coming them
in very close contact to each other can cause and change in molecules
of each other?
Very well. Here's a simple, direct and accurate answer to your question. Aside from a nuclear reaction (as when two lighter atoms fuse or, in the case of fission where a neutron uses some of it's kinetic energy to split a nucleus) there is only one form of energy that is transferable - thermal. It can be done by either direct contact (conductance) or by radiation. (Convection is often mentioned but it is really just a form on conductance.)Kumar said:Hello Light,
Central to the Thermodynamic are the concepts of system and surroundings. System can be where to or more entities are integral parts of that system--may it be two joined fundamental forces, two elementary particle, matter and energy, a thing or a being. Except one prime force nothing can be said as absolute microscopic. Right?
Surrounding is defined as the surroundings, or environment, are anything not part of the system. They are separated from the system by a real or imaginary boundary. Together with the system, they make up the Universe.The surroundings do not contain any processes of interest. However, they can usually exchange energy and sometimes even matter with the system, influencing the processes that occur there.
I have a question anout energy exchange on moleculer interactions by
contacts:-
M.W of NaCl =58.443
M.W. of H2O=18.015
M.W of C6H12O6=180.157
In view of E=mc^2,
E of NaCl = 58.443 c^2
E of H2O = 18.015 c^2
E of C6H12O6= 180.157 c^2
Since energy and matter can be converted into each other, molecules can be considered as a concentrated or complex form ofenergy AND energy as a diluted or simple form of matter, In view of this and of above system and surrounding interpretations and of energy balance and energy tend to move from higher level to lower level and there can be some "equibilirium tendancy" or exchange of energy, when any of these molecules come into close contacts with each other.
As energy exchange looks to be quite logical and possible, my simple question is:-
What such "equibilirium tendancy" between two molecules on coming them
in very close contact to each other can cause and change in molecules
of each other?
And while there certainly are chemical reactions that are both exothermic (release energy) and endothermic (absorb energy), they do not seem to fit within what you are asking.
So we are left with simple thermal energy which will always transfer from a higher level (hotter) to a lower level (cooler) unless acted upon by some external process. (And eventually, it will happen anyway.)
Jocce said:What happens is exactly the same as when this is done for other purposes than make homeopathic snakeoil. It is well understood.
Jocce,
When anyone from other than from CAMs ommunity interfere or resist in any way in "trying to know science of any unclear but mass existing concept as homeopathy or other CAMs", it looks quite childish and idiocy to me on his pert. I just feel that he is illitrate in that as unable to evaluate its impact when such science is made clear. It may greatly benefit to humanity and modern pharmacies AND add to science knowledges. To me, it is for satisfying the curiosity, to get thei advanced, deep and systematic knowledges, and for mass benefit to humanity. However, it may never benefit to homeopathic and other CAMs's comminities, as if clear in science, these will be diciplined in systematic manner and will be hijected by modern pharmacies and people of conventional system instantly. Cosider position of farmers on grabing of land of farmers by city developers. Is it not the real/dynamic evaluation to this????
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Kumar said:Jocce, When anyone from other than from CAMs community interfere or resist in any way in "trying to know science of any unclear but mass existing concept as homeopathy or other CAMs", it looks quite childish and idiocy to me on his pert.
Well..I don't know what you mean by CAM and the rest of the paragraph is gobbeldygook to me. I don't understand.
Kumar said:I just feel that he is illitrate in that as unable to evaluate its impact when such science is made clear. It may greatly benefit to humanity and modern pharmacies AND add to science knowledges. To me, it is for satisfying the curiosity, to get thei advanced, deep and systematic knowledges, and for mass benefit to humanity.
Whenever you ask a question about some concept I try to explain what contemporary science has to say about it. The problem is that our conversation goes like this:
Jocce: Well, as far as we know it's blue
Kumar: I see, it's green then?
Jocce: No, no it's blue. I just told you
Kumar: And blue mixing with yellow makes green correct?
Jocce: yeah...but you don't have any yellow.
Kumar: Well, I doubt that, I'm now certin it is red.
Jocce: ehh...huh...mm...ehh...how?!?!
As an example, the other day you posted: "While considering atoms, pls do consider thermodynamics within nucleus also". You still don't find anything weird with that sentence?
Kumar said:However, it may never benefit to homeopathic and other CAMs's comminities, as if clear in science, these will be diciplined in systematic manner and will be hijected by modern pharmacies and people of conventional system instantly. Cosider position of farmers on grabing of land of farmers by city developers. Is it not the real/dynamic evaluation to this????
You will NOT find any misses and weaknesses in "science".
You will NOT find the scientific explanation for homeopathy.
All you will do is to continue to google for unrelated fragments of scientific concepts that you don't bother to try to understand. Well, it's a hobby as good as any I guess.
Light said:Very well. Here's a simple, direct and accurate answer to your question. Aside from a nuclear reaction (as when two lighter atoms fuse or, in the case of fission where a neutron uses some of it's kinetic energy to split a nucleus) there is only one form of energy that is transferable - thermal. It can be done by either direct contact (conductance) or by radiation. (Convection is often mentioned but it is really just a form on conductance.)
And while there certainly are chemical reactions that are both exothermic (release energy) and endothermic (absorb energy), they do not seem to fit within what you are asking.
So we are left with simple thermal energy which will always transfer from a higher level (hotter) to a lower level (cooler) unless acted upon by some external process. (And eventually, it will happen anyway.)
Light, thanks.
Yes, but whether such transfer of thermal energy due to thermal equiblirium will persit in these two substances till they remain in contact persitently? Will motion in molecules/atoms change due to thermal differences?
Jocce, nothing to overreact. Ask and discuss as Light has asked and replied. Don't be preconcieved that, homeopathy or other CAMs(Complementry and alternative medicines) are your or people's enemy or fake and cheatings are going on intentionally. All those observe and experiance effects truely with lesser adversities, but bit unclear and mild in comparisn to conventional system.
What do you say, if these CAMs and homeopathy is cleared in science and made systematic, will it not benefit to humanity, Conventional pharmacies and people, to science and lose to their communities? Think deeply and truely.
What do you say, if these CAMs and homeopathy is cleared in science and made systematic, will it not benefit to humanity, Conventional pharmacies and people, to science and lose to their communities? Think deeply and truely.
Kumar said:Light, thanks.
Yes, but whether such transfer of thermal energy due to thermal equiblirium will persit in these two substances till they remain in contact persitently?
No, it's a temporary condition and it changes each time the surrounding temperature changes. I told you this already?
Kumar said:Jocce, nothing to overreact. Ask and discuss as Light has asked and replied.
I have been doing exactly that for over a year. Now you prove to me that you have learned anything at all. I repeat, do you find anything strange with this sentence that you wrote?:
"While considering atoms, pls do consider thermodynamics within nucleus also"
First, a minor correction - the transfer will persist UNTIL equilibrium is reached. It is the difference in temperature (not being in equilibrium) that drives the transfer. And they need not be in direct contact since the transfer can take place through radiation.Kumar said:Light, thanks.
Yes, but whether such transfer of thermal energy due to thermal equiblirium will persit in these two substances till they remain in contact persitently? Will motion in molecules/atoms change due to thermal differences?
Certainly there is a change due to temperature differences. An atom/molecule at a higher temperature vibrates faster DUE to it's higher temperature. And if some of that thermal energy is transfered away, it's rate of vibration decreases.
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