Purpose of Life

Delusions

Not all atheists or materialists fear death. The idea that the end of life is the end of all experience isn't necessarily anything to worry about.
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You´re right, the song is only a reflection a point of view to think. The song have some different interpretations, since the pure scaried athetist until atheist scaried to feel ghost bewteen worlds colliding. Also there´s religious one´s who fear death:p .

I don´t know why we are here and i think nobody knows, none eskeptic or scientific or most religious man in this planet, none of them. Until last human will disssapear will be thousand of opinions about that, i only know that we are here, apparently without reason. I think that someday we must return to nothing, to the eternal darkness in the void, but i think that state really free 'us' from everything (if anything like 'us' or 'i' exist) leaving 'us' in a state of eternal peace, an eternal unconscience. I think that every one of us decide his own reason to exists, every one of us decide his own purpouse in life, we´re here to probe, believe, feel, see, hear, be happy, be worried, no matter if i believe in that or these, we spend our lifes discussing about religions and beliefs:confused: , while we could be living, seeing the sun, running or swimming with our friends:D.
 
Lucysnow said:
Hermann: Thanks for the response it has raised more questions. You speak of regained freedom after the soul has left the body or disconnected from the brain, what is your definition of 'soul'? What is it made of? What purpose is this new 'freedom' and what does the 'soul' do after death? Does it go to heaven? Is it forced into reincarnation? Or does it simply float around watching over old friends and family? Oh yes and what about animals not to mention flora and fauna do they also have this soul thing?
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I regard my soul as the essence of myself. It consists of not detectable matter or not detectable energy, which does not worry me – we also don’t know the true nature of gravitation or corresponding theories are at least not proved yet. I think, if a soul has reached consciousness, it will keep its individuality on the way of its endless development. This development goes through reincarnations and beyond. After death or between lives the restrictions given by the brain will disappear and you will have all possibilities of communication with other free souls. You remember everything of your past experiences and you may be able to do many things you want to do just driven by thoughts. But all that is difficult to imagine or do describe.
I think our biggest mistake is, that we strongly overestimate the capabilities of the brain, The brain is a tool only – never the origin of something. We know e.g. where musical performance is located in the brain allowing to perform the voice or operating an instrument, but the music itself has not its origin there. The creative origin of everything is within the soul, which is captured and restricted by the brain, but free again after death. For more details I have to refer to my small booklet, which I made freely accessible for online reading at: http://books.google.com/books?q="Hermann+Raith"&btnG=Search+Books&as_brr=1
 
Lordofkammos I like your style. Very well said.

Hermann: "I think, if a soul has reached consciousness, it will keep its individuality on the way of its endless development. This development goes through reincarnations and beyond. After death or between lives the restrictions given by the brain will disappear and you will have all possibilities of communication with other free souls."

Individuality is linked to identity and personality, something that is formed through family, society and culture so how can one retain their individuality and go through reincarnation where it is assumed one is born a different living entity? Also how would these wandering souls communicate? Through what mechanism? And what would they have to say to each other being dead and all? And no I am not taking the piss I am being serious. If these free souls are having so much fun in the ether why bother being reincarnated? Would you agree that what we are discussing is religious belief (eastern in origin and new age by description) and not scientific knowledge? You play with an idea but it has no scientific relevance.

Oh yea and what do you think god the source of this process you describe?
 
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Hermann said:
I regard my soul as the essence of myself. It consists of not detectable matter or not detectable energy, which does not worry me – we also don’t know the true nature of gravitation or corresponding theories are at least not proved yet.
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Complete nonsense, gravity is detectable, the soul is not, how can you compare the two? Your credentials are in question here.

But all that is difficult to imagine or do describe.
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Yet, your overactive imagination is attempting to do so.

I think our biggest mistake is, that we strongly overestimate the capabilities of the brain, The brain is a tool only – never the origin of something. We know e.g. where musical performance is located in the brain allowing to perform the voice or operating an instrument, but the music itself has not its origin there. The creative origin of everything is within the soul, which is captured and restricted by the brain, but free again after death.
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So, something that hasn't been detected or shown to exist is the source for creativity? And the brain gets a pass on that one? Quite imaginative.
 
Lucysnow,

I agree that we are discussing now religious belief and not scientific knowledge. There seem to be worlds between science (on materialistic basis) and religious beliefs. I am quite familiar with both sides and at least for myself I could combine them. Therefore I am still deeply convinced about all I have written. But it makes no sense to discuss this further, if there is no common base – science alone is not sufficient.
 
Well Hermann thank you for your honesty. Since no-one can know for sure I guess we have to wait for the big moment. Personally I think its an exhausting proposition...the floating around after death business. Anyway do you believe in hell or is the afterlife all haha heehee?
 
Greetings Hermann

I agree our Real existence is within our soul. I have read your booklet and I see no real topic of disagreement.The various subject matters you have chosen are all logical analysis of the visable universe and its workings.
However it is the visable things , the constructed things that are as they are only due to the souls that do inhabit the pre-organized universe who collectively makes the analysis possible from the finites point of observation.To observe the workings of creation from the view of a time bound organized being , of man or beast will not through the natural senses reveal truth. Your point on the size of the human brain being not an evolutionary requirement is quite right. The brain like every other element is a created thing designed for a specific role in the drama of the soul once it is enhoused as the living soul of man or beast. The creative ability of the human being is no accident. The best I can do in words for this topic is to say ; The soul is Individual and there are No limits it would seem, on the numbers of souls. The Created material things big or small All exist within the same space as the souls. The souls , that is the condition that exists for the soul prior to birth in the flesh is a collection that is only governed by Individuality. No soul prior to birth can realize self-will in any meaningful way. They are all captive to reality. The Human drama is an illusionary reality. A reality constructed to Not reveal the condition of origin. It is Not very pleasant. The Faith in a God by the souls in time , that is those who are temporally enhoused is the souls attempt to realize as self-worth and at the same time hide the ugly truth.Thanks for your kind reply to my previous posting even though I know my post is not revealing and difficult of genuine understanding.

regards,
 
Segestan: "The soul is Individual and there are No limits it would seem, on the numbers of souls. The Created material things big or small All exist within the same space as the souls. The souls , that is the condition that exists for the soul prior to birth in the flesh is a collection that is only governed by Individuality. No soul prior to birth can realize self-will in any meaningful way. They are all captive to reality. The Human drama is an illusionary reality. A reality constructed to Not reveal the condition of origin. It is Not very pleasant. The Faith in a God by the souls in time..."

You really aren't helping his case at all with what reads like horse radish splattered over a mint-green canvas. At least Hermann attempts to bridge the gap between his beliefs and actual knowledge. What you have written is complete goobly-goop!
 
Segestan,
Thanks for your contribution. I agree with you, that the soul is the individual, but I disagree that there are any created material things – these are all the result of evolution.
Sorry for the late reply, but I did not visit this forum a long time. My view has still not been changed and is described in my homepage, now at http://members.westnet.com.au/hraith/rwe.htm
 
I just want to add, that the best description of my view is published in my booklet "A Rational Philosophy of Life" by Hermann Raith (ISBN 1-4196-1411-8), which can be read online via Google Books free of charge. If there is anything which needs to be explained in more detail, I would be happy to do that.
 
man the OP is one heck of a guy, wish we have more of his like around..
 
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Hermann said:
I am Hermann, a retired physicist, living in Australia.
I have spent a long time to make up my mind about the purpose of life. The result of my thoughts you will find on my website: www.users.bigpond.com/hermann.raith
It would be great to get some comments and to enter into an interesting discussion.
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Purpose is something that can only be assigned by a "purposer"... which requires a sapient life form at the very least. The only entities that will assign you purpose are human.
 
Hermann said:
Scientists are committed to explain everything on a materialistic basis, because materialism is a dogma in all sciences. Such explanations are possible, but the question is, whether they are convincing and satisfying.
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It doesn't really matter if something is convincing or satisfying. That is part of psychological satiation. What does matter is accuracy and truth.
 
Hermann said:
Gekkou, Water, Russ723,
Do you really believe that we and the whole universe exist only by chance – without any purpose behind?
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That's a flawed question; however, the correct answer is that the universe exists because of natural processes in reality (not by chance) AND no life form has created it (therefore it is absent of purpose).
 
Hello everyone,
I am now 80 and still alive. My world view has not been changed yet. My booklet "A Rational Philosophy of Life" is now available as free iBook and at Kindle for 1$. A short overview is given at:
http://rational-weltanschauung.blogspot.com.au/
Now I would be very much interested to learn what forum members think about Michael Raduga and "The Phase" (http://obe4u.com/)
At least Michael is claiming to be materialist!
 
Hermann said:
I regard my soul as the essence of myself. It consists of not detectable matter or not detectable energy, which does not worry me – we also don’t know the true nature of gravitation or corresponding theories are at least not proved yet. I think, if a soul has reached consciousness, it will keep its individuality on the way of its endless development. This development goes through reincarnations and beyond. After death or between lives the restrictions given by the brain will disappear and you will have all possibilities of communication with other free souls. You remember everything of your past experiences and you may be able to do many things you want to do just driven by thoughts. But all that is difficult to imagine or do describe.
I think our biggest mistake is, that we strongly overestimate the capabilities of the brain, The brain is a tool only – never the origin of something. We know e.g. where musical performance is located in the brain allowing to perform the voice or operating an instrument, but the music itself has not its origin there. The creative origin of everything is within the soul, which is captured and restricted by the brain, but free again after death. For more details I have to refer to my small booklet, which I made freely accessible for online reading at: http://books.google.com/books?q="Hermann Raith"&btnG=Search Books&as_brr=1
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There is no reason to think there is a soul. There is every reason to think that personality lies in the physical structures of the brain, since when the brain is damaged, we lose personality traits and cognitive skills. The mind doesn't exist at all, it's an illusion created by the brain.

Near death experiences should be called Not Dead Experiences. These people don't die. The reason science rejects the notion that NDEs represent an experience of a real transcendental afterlife is that there is no reliable evidence of it. Theoretically, such people should be able to return with information that they could not have otherwise known, such as a random number on a screen in the operating room. These experiences can be more parsimoniously explained as the result of the kind of chemicals the brain produces in times of stress, or just simply oxygen deprivation. It's the same with spiritualists. The dead should have information that the living could not know, and this could be verified. But it never has. Because it's nonsense born of the fear of death.

The fine tuning of cosmological constants doesn't necessarily imply a purpose. A God must also be fine-tuned to create the fine-tuned constants, so it doesn't really explain them. The multiverse also explains fine-tuning in that the constants could have infinite variation, and we happen to be in one that supports life. Alternatively, the constants could be derived from an as-yet undiscovered Theory of Everything. Also, some scientists have shown that so-called fine-tuning isn't so fine after all, and that you could vary some of them by up to 20% and still have a universe that would exist long enough for life to develop. I think we evolved to fit the universe, not the other way around.

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"Your experiencing structure cannot conceive of any event that it will not experience. It even expects to preside over its own dissolution, and so it wonders what death will feel like -- it tries to project the feeling of what it will be like not to feel. But in order to anticipate a future experience, your structure needs knowledge, a similar past experience it can call upon for reference. You cannot remember what it felt like not to exist before you were born, and you cannot remember your own birth, so you have no basis for projecting your future non- existence. As long as you have known life, you have known yourself, you have been there, so, to you, you have a feeling of eternity. To justify this feeling of eternity, your structure begins to convince itself that there will be a life after death for you -- heaven, reincarnation, transmigration of souls, or whatever. What is it that you think reincarnates? Where is that soul of yours? Can you taste it, touch it, show it to me? What is there inside of you that goes to heaven? What is there? There is nothing inside of you but fear. "

U.G. Krishnamurti
 
spidergost

Thank you for your detailed description of your materialistic view in contrast to my non-materialistic opinion.

Please look also at http://obe4u.com and check the opinion of the "materialist" Michael Raduga. Do you think "The Phase" exists and do you agree with Michael that this is also produced by the brain only?

I would appreciate your answer very much.
 
It would be trivial to test, so of course it's an incorrect interpretation of a natural brain function. I say that as someone who has lucid dreamed, and who has had close friends who claimed to be able to astral project. I suggest that we are capable of self hypnosis, and that this explains many forms of religious practice. Why not do a controlled experiment and collect a million dollars from James Randi?
 
Hermann said:
Hello everyone,
I am now 80 and still alive. My world view has not been changed yet. My booklet "A Rational Philosophy of Life" is now available as free iBook and at Kindle for 1$. A short overview is given at:
http://rational-weltanschauung.blogspot.com.au/
Now I would be very much interested to learn what forum members think about Michael Raduga and "The Phase" (http://obe4u.com/)
At least Michael is claiming to be materialist!
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Hi Hermann,
I agree with what you have said in this thread. I too believe that my soul is the essence of my being and I also believe in individual souls. I think that having conscious experiences through the physical embodiment, the garb of flesh and bones, is the purpose of this life. Through my experiences I see the spiritual realm as outside of creation. I see creation as the singularity of "The Mind", which gives rise to space and time and the manifest material forms.

I believe there is a One Mind, which is a universal platform through which we relate. And though relationship become entangled as to have direct mental perceptions. The personal minds are the collection of perceptions, ideas and beliefs, to which we have identified and through which we may have associated reactivity in the body. Thus the rise of personal self. This self disappears just before an enlightenment experience because the identification ceases to be with the activities of mind and returns to being identification with being (which might be called true self).

IMO the brain's function is to enable the consciousness, which is a quality of the soul or being, to be experience through the material form.
 
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