dansufc said:any religion i dont care which just prove to me that your god is real! thanks in advance
Have you considered that if you are oblivious to God's presence in your life that he is oblivous of yours in his?
Last edited:
dansufc said:any religion i dont care which just prove to me that your god is real! thanks in advance
why do you think people become atheists?John Mark E said:Your knowledge of it is useless without understanding.
only if the opposing, debater is using the same references, you have not been ask to defend the bible, just the aledged thing that spoke it. if your god is so real one micro instant of him will prove is existence, no need for forty books of fairy tales.John Mark E said:Then why was the founding question of this thread "prove to me that god is real any religion i dont care which just prove to me that your god is real! thanks in advance". While this statement may have been made by another atheist, this opens the floor for a Christian statement/defense. As the faith in the Christian God is included in this question, the use of The Bible as a reference point becomes valid.
we know what you believe, just by stating believer, anything from the bible, used as reference for truth without evidence is preaching.John Mark E said:No, this is not posted for debate, yet it was also not posted for preaching
purposes. These are simply statements which are made and being presented in order to state my beliefs.
there is no need, this so called "not understanding", you refer too is not one of ignorance, but surprise as to how many people cannot see the intolerence, contradictions, absurditys, injustice, and cruelty, in therir beliefs, again how do you think one becomes atheist, by understanding it far to well.John Mark E said:As for your stated lack of understanding of the Christian religion, I understand it, but I cannot explain it all to you.
And if you read my other posts, I have stated that the only way to physically prove that which is not physical is to attempt to prove that which is said to have been left to us by Him. Because of that, The Bible is still valid for evidence.geeser said:you have not been ask to defend the bible, just the aledged thing that spoke it.
You have shown your limited views, in that you are not even getting the right number of books. Try 66.no need for forty books of fairy tales.
If you would have taken a moment to note the link posted by 'Godless', you would see that the information I have given was in direct relation to that which was presented to me. The information listed at that link was directly from The Bible. Again, as such, this makes The Bible fully legitimate as a reference point, even by your definition, as both sides of the issue are using it.the rest of your post was complete preaching using a reference, that's invalid-namely the bible.
how so, the bible does'nt contain any evidence, using it as reference is invalid.John Mark E said:And if you read my other posts, I have stated that the only way to physically prove that which is not physical is to attempt to prove that which is said to have been left to us by Him. Because of that, The Bible is still valid for evidence.
yes, I'm sorry about that I'd just gave my brother forty pounds, so was'nt thinking straight, however if we wish to be correct we could mention the missing 28 books that are mentioned in scripture such asJohn Mark E said:You have shown your limited views, in that you are not even getting the right number of books. Try 66.
John Mark E said:If you would have taken a moment to note the link posted by 'Godless', you would see that the information I have given was in direct relation to that which was presented to me. The information listed at that link was directly from The Bible. Again, as such, this makes The Bible fully legitimate as a reference point, even by your definition, as both sides of the issue are using it.
God who?dansufc said:any religion i dont care which just prove to me that your god is real! thanks in advance
geeser said:how so, the bible does'nt contain any evidence, using it as reference is invalid. this is why you will be, knocked down at every turn.
but godless was refering to your preaching. was he not. else he would not of used it.
geeser, I apologize for my snap at this point. This is not how I like to respond to people.JME said:You have shown your limited views...
This is an interesting concept...except that it has been seen before.nova900 said:Neterianism
From my reading, Neterianism does believe in those other EgyptianDo I think the Egyptian gods/goddesses existed...no, they are just myths
In order to have a legitimate claim to judge, one must first have authority over the one being judged. Therefore, to make this claim, you have just told me that you claim to have authority over God. Therefore, even the Supreme God of Neterianism is under your authority. This does not seem to allow for the Supremacy of your God.I do have the right to judge God...
That is true...every person has the free-will to make this choice for themselves. That does not mean that those chosen paths are correct, nor that they will not have consequences. This is again saying that human beings are more powerful than God.Every person has the right to find their own spiritual path, or no path at all.
John Mark E said:Speaking of abominations...M*W, if the Hebrew God is nothing more than the sun, why, then, is sun worship referred to as one of these abominations? You can find that here:
Ezekiel 8:15,16,17 - Then said He unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these. And He brought me into the innter court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the alter, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east. Then He said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger:
But, then, what difference does it make if The Bible says that your theory is wrong. You do not believe The Bible anyways.
Exodus 32:14 - And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Judges 9:23 - Then God sent an evil spirit
2 Kings 6:33 ...Behold, this evil is of the LORD;
Micah 1:12 .... evil came down from the LORD
"Son of Man" is the Sun.
"turn thee yet again" means another night and daybreak, or the rising sun of another day.
"thou wilt see greater abominations than these" meaning there are worse things than sun worship as in the worship of animals as in the animals of the zodiac that were being worshipped instead of the sun.
"the inner court of the Lord's house..." refers to the signs of the zodiac which surround the sun.
"at the door of the temple of the Lord" refers to the sun signs.
"between the porch and the altar" refers to symbols of zodiac worship and animal sacrifice.
"about five and twenty men" refers to degrees in a particular sign of the zodiac. There are about 30 degrees in each sign. It is referring to one of the signs, I don't know offhand which one.
"with their backs toward the temple of the Lord and their faces to the east" means that time (degrees) were passing, the sun was setting in the west, and as time passed darkness arose in the east. This is not referring to real human beings, but an abomination against the sun.
"and they worshipped the sun in the east" implies waiting for the time that the sun will come up again.
"a light thing toward the house of Judah" means sun worship by the Jews. "House" is also a term used in astrology meaning "location."
"commit the abominations that they commit here" is a reference to the worship of the zodiac animals instead of the sun. They believed the sun was "provoked to anger."
"The Sign of Aries, the Ram, was the age of Abraham, Brahmin, which translates to "Ab" (father) "ra" (sunworship) "ham" "him" is plural many "ra" or sun gods."
John Mark E said:This was to be judgement for the acts being committed: pride, arrogance, idolatry, adultery. And this was shortly after they were miraculously delivered from the Egyptian army.
This was an accusation, which was shortly answered by the prophet. God did not make this statement.
"...for the transgressions of Israel were found in thee." Again, this is a means of judgement.
So you say. Yet, in these verses, "son of man" is the designation given to the author/writer/prophet, Ezekiel. Son of man is a title, because he is human.
turn...simply means "now, look over here...there is more"
This might be reasonable, if the previous verses had not already spoken of animal worship, and the worship of the sun on the temple grounds was the greater abomination.
Only if you are reading THAT much into it. Could it be that this was ACTUALLY the portion of the temple grounds referred to as the Inner Court???
Again, only if you are heavily reading into it. How about the ACUTAL door of the temple? Is that so hard to imagine?
Or that there was (which there was) a portion of the temple referred to as the Porch, and then the sacrificial Alter.
The specification that they had their backs toward the temple simply referred to the fact that they had turned their backs on God, and were participating in sun worship.
Sure, since the passage refers to the people worshipping the sun. Yet God is calling this an abomination.
house of Judah only means the family or tribe of Judah.
I think you read the part that I pasted in and then did your best to bend the words to fit what you want them to say. Only then would this idea that god=sun work. But even then, as with this last one, the explanations given, by you, don't even mesh with each other. You are simply trying to read stuff into the words that simply is not there.
M*W said:I deciphered every phrase according to my knowledge, and this is what I came up with...truthfull explanations of everything
M*W said:To hell with the likes of you!
Sun worship involved animal sacrifice, which was the greater abomination than sun worship.
I read into it what I believe
So, then, 25=30??? What happened to logic and scholarship?
There are 30 degrees in each sign of the Zodiac.
No, you're wrong. Their backs were to the west, and they were facing east toward the rising sun.
The words are there...
I didn't make this up...I interpreted it...
How on Earth can you be so stupid?
I interpreted it from extensive research.
John Mark E said:Are these explanations truthful when you have taken words and either tried to change their meanings or the order in which they appear? Or perhaps you are TRYING to find other meanings.
If Heaven and Hell do not exist, as you claim, then why should I worry if you try to send me there?
OK, how does this arguement make sense? If Yahway - God worship was sun worship, and animal sacrifice was a part of this, then how would either one be an abomination? The fact is that animal sacrifice was a major part of the Israelite belief-system, as it is written in The Bible.
That is the basis of your problem. This is not about what YOU believe, but rather what is written.
Maybe...just maybe, you will see just how messed up your "interpretations" are.
You have completely missed the point. The passage does not state 30. It says 25. By that alone, it states that your interpretation of these people being the signs of the Zodiac is incorrect. Otherwise, show how 25 people = 30 degrees.
I would be wrong IF they were not worshipping the sun. I already said that they were worshipping the sun. It was this act (of sun worship) that was the abomination.
If God-worship were actually SUN-worship, then this chapter, that was simply copied and pasted, so that no changes were made to it, would not state that the worship of the sun was an abomination.[/QUOTE
]
Yet it is stated fairly plainly that this was the case.
Yes, the words are there, and yet it does not seem that you are not reading them all. Either that, or you are deliberately twisting the words.
Does this not seem a contradiction in terms to you?
Must you actually stoop to insults, again? Are you that defeated in your own arguements that you must resort to this?
Romans 1:22 - Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
*************
M*W: Again, please read the link. There's no point in me repeating what I said before. I have provided you with a bibliography of researchers' evidence. I have explained how the bible stories were created from the ancients watching the skies. Many other members here have also posted links. The atheists on board have told you the fallacy of your beliefs. Now, I have made a time-consuming effort to show you the reason 'why.' The rest of the knowledge you acquire on this subject will have to come from your effort.
Novacane said:Only God can prove he's/she's real. We as humans can only verify it.
Medicine Woman said:*************
M*W: How can something that does not exist prove he/she is real? Therefore, how can humans "verify" the existence of this non-existent being if god itself cannot do it?
Novacane said:That's up to God.