That's a good manager. Only 30% of CEO's qualify. Maybe 40% of department heads. Floor managers and shift foremen, nursing or haz-mat cleanup supervisor can't afford to be less than competent. There is nobody else to blame. Seems like, the farther one is from the nuts-and-bolts of any operation, the less skill and effort is demanded and more compensation given.
Presidential predictions for 2024?
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TheVat
Registered Senior Member
I agree. I might even add hyperbolic, as well as facile.
Really, I was just giving a small hoorah for unions and pushing back on the way relative values are assigned up and down corporate hierarchy. The lionizing of people in the boardroom, the cult of the CEO, seems a little much to me. Less hierarchical companies seem to do better not only with things like profit-sharing and worker loyalty but also in allowing good ideas and innovation to percolate up from smart people on the floor (they exist). Wish I had a cite handy - at the moment, I have a vaguely recalled article on some Scandinavian company which found that flatter structure and profit-sharing very successful.
TheVat
Registered Senior Member
My leaves are generally gracious, and I will also leave open the question of relative intellectual capacity (based on what little I remember of the Wodehouse oeuvre). Wooster is fortunate to have you bailing him out and quietly leading from behind.
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
I wouldn’t agree there. It’s certainly not true about the skill and effort. Most of these people work long hours and have a great deal of knowledge and experience.
What’s wrong, unnecessary and divisive is the telephone number salaries. It used not to be like this. Senior management salaries started taking off in the 1980s “greed is good” era and have never looked back. Before that they were far more reasonable.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
When it comes to the CEO, that is a shareholder matter. If the CEO is overpaid, it comes at the expense of the shareholders and not the workers. The workers are paid market wages. If the CEO makes more of less, it has no effect on worker pay.
It affects retained earnings that could go to shareholders. It also doesn't even have a great effect there in a major company because it's just one person and when divided by all the shareholders it's usually insignificant.
So, the CEO salary may "upset" some people but it really doesn't affect them one way or the other.
Even the people you are talking about. You feel that some managers make too much. Based on what? It's market based as is everyone else's pay. If a manager makes too much (to you) it doesn't affect you at all. It's a shareholder issue.
It affects retained earnings that could go to shareholders. It also doesn't even have a great effect there in a major company because it's just one person and when divided by all the shareholders it's usually insignificant.
So, the CEO salary may "upset" some people but it really doesn't affect them one way or the other.
Even the people you are talking about. You feel that some managers make too much. Based on what? It's market based as is everyone else's pay. If a manager makes too much (to you) it doesn't affect you at all. It's a shareholder issue.
Maybe it varies by industry. The executives I've seen close up were more akin to the Dilbert experience rather than yours.
and inflationary.... which is where I came in
exchemist
Valued Senior Member
I was really talking about the senior management - people like my late wife, who worked all hours. The ones in the middle, like me, were a mixed bunch admittedly.
Thoughts on Harris' pick for VP, Tim Walz, Governor of Minnesota? Will this give a bump to the Dems in the polls? Is it a safe pick? Would you have preferred one of the others?
I'm not sure she could have gone wrong with any of the top contenders, to be honest, but Walz was a surprise, as I thought Shapiro was the front-runner.
Looking forward to seeing him in action, so to speak.
I'm not sure she could have gone wrong with any of the top contenders, to be honest, but Walz was a surprise, as I thought Shapiro was the front-runner.
Looking forward to seeing him in action, so to speak.
TheVat
Registered Senior Member
I cannot easily undo the mental image of Kamala taking Walz out onto a dance floor and spinning around in 3/4 time. I think he is as safe as they get - a Midwest translator, a veteran, a centrist with considerable bipartisan skills, and some rural Yin (I know Valentine, NE and Chadron, NE, partly grew up near there) to her urban Yang. Other Minnesotans have been VP picks for similar reasons, like Humphrey and Mondale. California Kamala, that sharp San Francisco DA, needed someone who really knows how to talk to Main Street.
Yes. Two hours after the announcement, the phrase "happy warrior" was already bouncing around the broadcast news echo-chambers. Couldn't ask for a better label. And the trumpeting chorus has nothing on him. No names they can call him that would stick. He's liberal? Hell, yeah!
Yes, I think so. Not heavily committed to Israel, not pissed anyone off that I know of, solid record, calm, bluff, approachable demeanour. He'll look like a good counterweight. Right geography, too (and he should know).
My personal favourite is Buttigieg, but I didn't expect him to be picked. For one thing, I wouldn't want to hang a target on his family. Strategically, I think he'll do better as a mobile asset, free to cover whatever events or interviews most need an articulate, unflappable, steadfast champion.
I was hoping for Kelly. Ex-military, astronaut, very much into science.
Im assumin they made the best choice based on the facts they had... so I'm all in on Walz.!!!
Im guessing ther will be a bump... but even if thers a dip in the polls it might have been even lower if one of the others had been chosen
I thank Walz personality may have a better chance of connecting wit more of the undecided voters than Shapiro.!!!
Walz an Trump are kinda alike as in folksy "Tell it like it is" kind-of-guys... but Walz is sane an actually seems to like the human race... an democracy
...even the female half... maybe even the childless...
Walz an Trump are kinda alike as in folksy "Tell it like it is" kind-of-guys... but Walz is sane an actually seems to like the human race... an democracy
Yeah, I thought this was interesting. There are certain similarities, yet they're worlds apart. Apart from all the racist signalling and suchlike, Trump ins't really saying much of anything at all. He is kind of like a very bad deepfake, or crude and relatively primitive AI.
Seattle
Valued Senior Member
Trump is similar to the Jon Lovitz character on SNL (long ago) called "the liar". "I was at home the other day when Salma Hayek called me. She said you're the best looking guy I know. Yeah, that's the ticket, she wanted me to come over but I said I was busy. Yeah, that's the ticket..."
The way Lovitz portrayed that, it was like he was also convincing himself at the same time. And he just rolls with it. Trump also does this when he says the wrong word and follows this with an "and" and then the correct word, or when he blurts out a blatantly nonsensical idea and then fully expounds upon the nonsensical sentiment. He never backsteps or corrects himself.
I guess that's a unique skill of sorts. Not an admirable or desirable one really, but it projects confidence when it really ought to be doing the opposite.
That Lovitz character is similar to Kevin Nealon's Subliminal Man character, who is also a lot like Trump. It's like dog whistling, but it's more prescriptive or something.
I get the impression that nobody sees Trump as a person. He's a figurehead, a picture on a stupid sneaker, an idea, a touchstone, a punching-bag, a joke, a threat - yes, a huge threat, but that's not the man, that's what the Republican party has become in the shadow of this... hot-air balloon.
Everyone else in this mad American election movie is a three-dimensional character - even Vance, in all his incarnations, has some kind of recognizable human dimensions. Trump doesn't actually exist unless there is a camera recording him.
Everyone else in this mad American election movie is a three-dimensional character - even Vance, in all his incarnations, has some kind of recognizable human dimensions. Trump doesn't actually exist unless there is a camera recording him.
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Seattle
Valued Senior Member
I think Vance might be comparable to Dan Quayle. He was kind of creepy, not memorable in any way and just largely ignored.
Heck, even Vance is making a difference... by improving Harris' numbers.
From an overseas perspective, Dan Quayle is remembered for some wonderful gaffs while speaking, although they now seem mundane compared to Trump's...
"I was recently on a tour of Latin America, and the only regret I have was that I didn't study Latin harder in school so I could converse with those people."
"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure."
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is."
"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change."
"We don't want to go back to tomorrow, we want to go forward."
"I have made good judgements in the Past. I have made good judgements in the Future."
"The future will be better tomorrow."
"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world."
"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history."
"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made."
"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe."
"Public speaking is very easy."
"I am not part of the problem. I am a Republican."
"I love California, I practically grew up in Phoenix."
"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls."
"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur."
"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Dan Quayle may or may not make."
"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it."
(Vice President Dan Quayle)
"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system."
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