The Marquis
The question I have for you, Tiasa, is this. In the interests of a fair hearing, and giving credit to the fact the most western ethics have their roots in Judaic religion anyway, how can we possibly disregard their input?
In all honesty, you cannot disregard their input. But in an ethical consideration I would hope they could argue something about the real process of what the religion instructs.
I suppose that to me its the difference between exploring
why God might say, "Thou shall not kill" as opposed to screaming that God says it, that makes it an ethical device. There needs to be some reason in ethics, and shouting
a priori declarations is merely a starting point, and does not, imho, represent a coherent argument. That God abhors homosexuality, for instance, is clear in the Bible. But then again, that Law was handed down while the Jews were wandering about in the desert. Alongside Laws against sodomy, God also put a number of restrictions on casual sex and other wastes of seed. When you're in the desert for forty years, reproducton and sanitation are important. It makes logical sense in its context.
As a counterpoint, Leviticus 21 includes a scathing tantrum by God about the handicapped. The end result is that they shall not profane what the Lord has made holy. We obviously don't hold to the Bible on that count because it's kind of an absurd notion that only makes sense in the context that God wills their handicap, and some viewed disability as the manifestation of God's wrath and punishment of the future generations as prescribed elsewhere in the Bible. In the modern day, though, compassion is the rule of thumb, and beyond Jesus' forgiveness the only way Christians can argue against homosexuality is to raid the Pauline evangelism and hold this preacher's word up as if it was the Law of God.
We cannot avoid religion as a dimension of ethics, but religion cannot claim an ethical perspective without some reason or logic. Otherwise, it's merely a circular chain of assumptions that have nothing to do with the reasons for ethics.
"Homosexual laws" (closed) is one of the questionable topics, and I invite anyone to peruse it and help me figure out where the logic and reasoning of the Biblical ethic is in that topic.
I think there's a tremendous difference between those aspects of religion that we cannot avoid in ethical considerations, and those present in said topic.
And welcome to your new identity. I shall bear in mind that you have a prior history. As to T1, Ekimklaw and others, though, I think their
a priori religious assertions really didn't add up to a tremendous amount of ethical logic.
I remember one person telling people angrily that they didn't understand the Bible and therefore shouldn't comment on it. To the other, he also wrote once, "Who says I'm a Christian?" Despite his numerous assertions of what the Bible really means, he could never explain where he got this insight. In the end, his meltdown was not pretty in any sense.
thanx much,
Tiassa
