Pope calls for palestinian state...

[S.A.M.]

That is so completely unrated i thought it was a joke.

If they are still practicing Judaism theyre Jewish, if they not, theyre not. Depsite what the bible tells you...blah...blah...blah, it doesnt matter how much Jewish blood you have in you, if you don't practice you are not Jewish.

And really the whole rule where if your grandfather was Jewish means your Jewish only applies to the fact that you do not have to necessarily go through a conversion ceremony. Doesnt mean much else.

Are atheist Jews still practising Judaism? And isn't the rule based on the mother being Jewish? Since when is the grandfathers religion a factor?

 

[fedr808]

Are atheist Jews still practising Judaism? And isn't the rule based on the mother being Jewish? Since when is the grandfathers religion a factor?

Have you never taken the SAT? typically speaking it considers you to be Jewish(not anymore though)/Mexican, Asian, African American...etc. So long as you are 1/4 of that group.

And its not just Judaism its a rule that applies nearly everywhere.

 

[S.A.M.]

Have you never taken the SAT? typically speaking it considers you to be Jewish(not anymore though)/Mexican, Asian, African American...etc. So long as you are 1/4 of that group.

And its not just Judaism its a rule that applies nearly everywhere.

Not. If your grandfather is Christian/Muslim but you call yourself an atheist, you're an atheist, not a Christian or a Muslim. If your grandfather is Caucasian but your father is not, you would be Obama ie not Caucasian. Obama's maternal grandmother is Jewish, his mother and father were atheist and he is Christian.

If you're talking ethnicity then we're back to European Ashkenazi who have lived 2000 years in the west vs ethnic Jews who converted to some other religion.

 

[fedr808]

Not. If your grandfather is Christian/Muslim but you call yourself an atheist, you're an atheist, not a Christian or a Muslim. If your grandfather is Caucasian but your father is not, you would be Obama ie not Caucasian. Obama's maternal grandmother is Jewish, his mother and father were atheist and he is Christian.

If you're talking ethnicity then we're back to European Ashkenazi who have lived 2000 years in the west vs ethnic Jews who converted to some other religion.

If you have a problem with it whine to the guys that make the SAT. Not me.

 

[pjdude1219]

Gaza isnt a ghetto, it's your soverign country

May I ask what makes you say that? because by any definition I can think of gaza is not sovereign

 

[S.A.M.]

A first person account from Gaza:

First Day:

I listen to Cat Stevens’s “Wild World” and smile, knowing that my friend, Smadar Perry, will soon be listening to the same tune. Smadar is a journalist at Yediot Ahronot, the Tel Aviv-based daily. She called on Friday, asking for my favorite song, because she was to be a guest at 11 a.m. on a radio station there and wanted to talk to her listeners about our friendship, and to play the music. But at a traffic light I switch to Mamma Mia!—a soundtrack for a faster and more determined pace. At 11:15 a.m., Israeli bombs begin falling, close by; bombardment is suddenly the new norm.

For a second I am frozen, then ask loudly: “Where are they bombing?” Nobody knows. And nobody knows which building will be hit next. I ask a couple, “Is there any Hamas leader living in this building?” “No!,” they reply. I run toward a cloud of smoke. One-way streets become two-way; parents run into schools to collect their kids. I jump into a taxi that is headed toward the main hospital, and ask the driver why he is going in that direction when everyone else is heading the other way. His son is a policeman, he explains. He wants to see if he is okay. “Israel is launching a war against Hamas—do you blame Hamas?” I ask him. The driver’s answer is to begin to sob.

The moment I step out of the car, something hits my head: it is the body of a policeman being carried by two men toward the emergency room. His legs are deeply cut. Another car stops with two more policemen, both missing their legs. I run to the emergency room but am blocked by what seems like dozens of bodies on the floor near the entrance—brains out, legs gone, no signs of life—all in civil police uniforms. In the corner I see a policeman who is injured but alive, and step over bodies to reach him. Several Hamas security members rise up, shouting at me to get out. I say, “You have a job to do and I have a job, too.” They leave me alone.

I’m lucky that I passed by that police station before it was bombed, I tell myself. I’m lucky, too, that I didn’t arrange to meet with the head of the police that day, since I am staring at his body. I head to the morgue, where more than a hundred bodies are laid out—I see an infant and a dead child in a school uniform—and where families are coming to search for loved ones. At these moments, you don’t want to ask questions; you just observe and write down the words that come from people’s mouths.
http://www.cjr.org/feature/the_smell_of_paradise.php?page=all

Its a day by day account, for anyone who is interested

 

[ElectricFetus]

So youve provided us with 3 maps asking where is Palestine. 2 maps clearly show Palestine or Filistin in 1. The other is from around the first century, where obviously the names of the nations still corresponded to the Bible and or the Torah. Fact is that that area has been invaded lots of times and fact is that the Jews that stayed there, were the progenitors of what we now call the Palestinians. Yes, thats right, the Palestinians are the descendents of the ancient Jews living in that area.

SAM disagrees, also some jews remained jewish and there always was a Jewish presence in palatine since Moses savagely took over. The maps clearly show Judaea was thee too. More importantly what value is a land if the people keep changing, its like saying that America has always been there so the US should hold claim to it, which is retarded because the US has only been there ~300 years and before that the natives.

Lucysnow,

I was not arguing israel should get the land back just because they were there 2000 years ago. So you just wasted a whole post jerking out copy and paste for no good reason other then to relieve your sexual tension.

DiamondHearts,

By the same logic Palestinians don't know they are killing other Palestinians.

 

[fedr808]

May I ask what makes you say that? because by any definition I can think of gaza is not sovereign

They have their own government. Hamas?

A screwed up government maybe, but it still counts.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

Lucysnow,

I was not arguing israel should get the land back just because they were there 2000 years ago. So you just wasted a whole post jerking out copy and paste for no good reason other then to relieve your sexual tension.

Sexual tension? I guess I'm to supposed to think you jack off your jizm in this thread for lack of a sex life. Or maybe the that flaccid scab hanging off you is what has you so hostile.

 

[fedr808]

Wow,

the first thing I accepted when joining this scientific forum was the fact that you guys have the suckiest insults known to man. Seriously, get some real insults.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

He loves to provoke when he cannot argue. But maybe you would prefer this response:

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it." Hillel, Talmud, Shabbat 31a.

 

[pjdude1219]

They have their own government. Hamas?

A screwed up government maybe, but it still counts.

yeah a government that isn't allowed to control its own borders and control its revenue. Thats not being sovereign that being a puppet. Just because it has a government doesn't make it sovereign

 

[ElectricFetus]

Sexual tension? I guess I'm to supposed to think you jack off your jizm in this thread for lack of a sex life. Or maybe the that flaccid scab hanging off you is what has you so hostile.

Oh my sex life is varied I just jerk off to anything for the fun of it

 

[fedr808]

yeah a government that isn't allowed to control its own borders and control its revenue. Thats not being sovereign that being a puppet. Just because it has a government doesn't make it sovereign

It can control it's own borders and revunue whenever it likes.

But it pissed off the people that gave them the land, so now they are blockaded. Once Hamas apologizes and says they wont ever do that again, Israel will leave.

I can garuntee you that fact 100%

 

[fedr808]

He loves to provoke when he cannot argue. But maybe you would prefer this response:

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. This is whole Torah; all the rest is commentary. Go and learn it." Hillel, Talmud, Shabbat 31a.

Heh, I may be Jewish, but that does not mean i follow the torah word for word. Neither do most Jews.

We take it as guidance.

 

[S.A.M.]

It can control it's own borders and revunue whenever it likes.

But it pissed off the people that gave them the land, so now they are blockaded. Once Hamas apologizes and says they wont ever do that again, Israel will leave.

I can garuntee you that fact 100%

Its their land. You can't give them their own land. Thats like a thief stealing all your money and "giving" back 2% of it to you. And expecting you to be grateful for this "favor".

 

[fedr808]

Its their land. You can't give them their own land. Thats like a thief stealing all your money and "giving" back 2% of it to you. And expecting you to be grateful for this "favor".

We'll take the two percent back if you like

 

[Arsalan]

We'll take the two percent back if you like

Ah, so youd rather just be a thief then

 

[fedr808]

Ah, so youd rather just be a thief then

This reminds me of a story I heard.

A Jewish man lived and owned his own bakery in Poland 1930's

The Holocaust came around and the man and his friends and family were removed at gunpoint from their homes, loaded 80 people onto cattle cars. Went into concentration camps. Managed to survive 5 years of gas chambers, Nazis, typhus, and poor nutrition. And when he came back to what had been his families bakery for many years, a Polish man was living in his bakery, punched him in the face and killed him.

Only difference with the above and Israel is that Israel did not put up with that bullshit and punched back. And won, several times over.

The Palestinians occupied our homes and lands for our forced 2,000 year exile, now were back to make our land prosper again and so it has. And we granted you the right to stay in our country and to live in a prospering country where it used to be a wasteland. And you have the enrve to tell us to get out of what has been ours for 5,000 years?

You must be crazy if you think we are going to walk away.

 

[Arsalan]

This reminds me of a story I heard.

A Jewish man lived and owned his own bakery in Poland 1930's

The Holocaust came around and the man and his friends and family were removed at gunpoint from their homes, loaded 80 people onto cattle cars. Went into concentration camps. Managed to survive 5 years of gas chambers, Nazis, typhus, and poor nutrition. And when he came back to what had been his families bakery for many years, a Polish man was living in his bakery, punched him in the face and killed him.

Only difference with the above and Israel is that Israel did not put up with that bullshit and punched back. And won, several times over.

The Palestinians occupied our homes and lands for our forced 2,000 year exile, now were back to make our land prosper again and so it has. And we granted you the right to stay in our country and to live in a prospering country where it used to be a wasteland. And you have the enrve to tell us to get out of what has been ours for 5,000 years?

You must be crazy if you think we are going to walk away.

Except ofcourse the Jews bound to that area by their ancestury, not religion since anyone can be converted, were already back in that area for the most part and living with the Arabs, peacefully. Every time Europe kicked out the Jews, the Arabs welcomed them back and they lived there peacefully for many centuries. The exile argument does not stand up to history. The problem is the creation of a state by powers on the other side of the world, without taking into account the wishes of the people actually living on that land and who were promised self determiantion after the war.