Pirates and Colonies

caffeine_fubar

Dark Dementia is my name...
Registered Senior Member
What were the pirates and the colonies of the new world (north america) like?
Are the pirates that are featured in movies and stories today just like they were back then?

This was during the time period of Elizabeth in England. Can anyone give me some information on this? (I like asking here because google gives me a bunch of bullcrap too much!)

Thanks,
Off to research... thanks for your contribution!
 
I can give you a little bit of info. Some of the English pirates of the Elizabethan period, such as Sir Francis Drake and Sir Richard Hawkins, were privateers, private ship owners officially sanctioned by the government, and they raided Spanish ships and Spain's North American colonies for the Crown, for which they were handsomely rewarded. Their successes inspired what were called buccaneers, or freebooters. They preyed on Spanish possessions also, but they were not government sanctioned. The most famous English buccaneer was Sir Henry Morgan. Pirates were similar to buccaneers, except they didn't limit themselves to raiding Spanish possessions, but considered the possessions of any nation to be fair game.
 
caffeine_fubar said:
What were the pirates and the colonies of the new world (north america) like?
To appreciate the qualities of the colonies of the New World, you need to see them from the point of view of the colonists.

Europe, in particular England, the source of most of the early settlers of North America, was really crowded. Even by contemporary standards, cities like London were stinking, horrible places. The absolute stagnation of progress that was the legacy of the millennium of Christian theocracy known as the Dark Ages meant that the most basic trivial joys of living, such as bathing and street cleaning, were unknown in Europe. Once a year they'd run a herd of pigs through the streets of the cities, merely converting garbage into feces, while human excrement flowed untreated through the gutters.

Life wasn't quite so sullied by the ignorance of public health measures out in the country, but it was vapid and hopeless. Feudalism was the norm, farmers could not hope to keep much of the proceeds of their labor to enrich the lives of their huge, contraceptive-deprived families. "Nasty, brutish, and short" was an apt contemporary description of European life for all but the most fortunate aristocrats who managed not to die of simple ailments like influenza.

It's been argued in all seriousness that the lives of the people of 16th Century Europe were by most measures worse than those of their distant Neolithic hunter-gatherer ancestors. They worked harder and for longer hours. They had a less nutritious diet. Due to crowding, poor sanitation, and the execution of "witches" who remembered the herbal remedies and other common-sense medical care of the Stone Age, their health was no better, infant mortality was possibly worse, and their life expectancy was arguably about the same as it was in 25,000BCE, considerably shorter than that of the early civilized peoples.

So from that perspective, imagine what it was like for Europeans to set foot on a continent that was still in the Stone Age. The resources had not been depleted. The ground was clean. Human habitations were not crowded together for as far as the eye could see. The air didn't stink and the water was transparent. Game animals ran free, some in giant herds. There were plenty of trees to cut down to build sturdy houses, and more to burn to keep warm. The natives were, by European standards, funny looking and really odd, but at least they were not lords of the manor and did not expect to be obeyed.

Add to that the religious "freedom" of coming to a place where you could make your own version of Christianity the law, instead of having to sneak around hiding it from someone else who had already made theirs the law.

The New World was a paradise. It had little to do with the actual politics and logistics of establishing the colonies that are discussed to death in history books. It was a state of mind.

Mind you, this was the part of the New World that eventually became the USA. The Spaniards had a totally different experience in Central and South America. Civilizations had already been established there, the Aztec/Maya and Inca. Populations had swollen. Resources were strained; the downfall of the Mayas was in fact due to their stupidly cutting down all the trees and then wondering where to get more wood. The natives did not take kindly to being overrun by European technology and theology -- even less so than their Neolithic cousins north of the Rio Grande. They fought back and made the Spanish colonization a long, ghastly period of bloodshed -- perhaps no worse per capita than what was going on in the English and French colonies, but with a bit more dying on the European side and generally more natives to kill off before declaring the land conquered. In fact, if you ask the people of southern Mexico, the Spaniards have not yet conquered every last square kilometer of their part of the New World.
 
fraggle rocker, thats a bit biased about england in the 16th century. Ill get back to you on it.

Then remember the diseases of the new world and what happened to its inhabitants when they met the old worlds people and their diseases.
 
OK, ive remembered some more about elizabethan times:
Englands population was increasing noticeably, lots of young men needing gainful employment, but not much for them to do. Elizabeth also had, during the first part of her reign, the unenviable task of improving the currency, since her dad, Henry the 8th, had debased it so much by mixing the gold coins with cheaper metals. Hence, a good bit of Spanish gold would'nt go amiss.

Then think of the weaponry, cannons were just getting useful on ships, and the english I think had the best gunners and techniques.

PLus by this period navigation had improved tremendously, Kepler was at work, and Columbus etc voyages had made various things clear about the shape of the earth and what could be done where. So all these things were feeding into what was going on.

But on the other hand, I thought that the pirates seen in movies etc were mostly 18th century ones. They had bigger better ships, were outlaws completely, not gentlemen with letters of marque etc.
 
guthrie said:
fraggle rocker, thats a bit biased about england in the 16th century.
Yeah well, somebody has to remember history.

The "English" have been invading other people's countries, occupying them, running the original inhabitants out or killing them off, and claiming them for themselves, since the third or fourth century when the original Anglo-Saxon barbarians invaded the civilized Britannia that was abandoned by the collapsing Roman empire, ran the Celtic Britons out of their own country, and turned it into "Angle-Land."

The people who now cleverly call themselves "British" even though they speak a Saxon tongue, are nothing but a really lucky horde of Germanic pillagers who found a paradise for the taking.

It's been their M.O. ever since.
 
Yes, we English do pride ourselves on being bastards who interfere with everyone elses affairs, albeit quite subtley over the past few decades...

The reason that England had so many pirates etc. was because Spain, France, Portugal (espescially) and even the Netherlands were rich, and could afford large fleets. Whereas Britain was poor, and could hardly afford an army, let alone a navy. So the Queen began "endorsing" pirates with tasks, and subsidies to help England's sea power (and treasurey). The hospitable climate of legally protected piracy meant the practice flourished, and therefore all the English pirates.
 
Working Class Hero said:
Yes, we English do pride ourselves on being bastards who interfere with everyone elses affairs, albeit quite subtly over the past few decades...
Well, we Americans have done our damnedest to catch up with your 1,300 year head start. We're letting you have a bit of a rest while we take over and do it any way but "subtly." ^_^
 
"The "English" have been invading other people's countries, occupying them, running the original inhabitants out or killing them off, and claiming them for themselves, since the third or fourth century when the original Anglo-Saxon barbarians invaded the civilized Britannia that was abandoned by the collapsing Roman empire, ran the Celtic Britons out of their own country, and turned it into "Angle-Land.""

Ahh, imperialism at work. Sounds like rome, Persia, just about everywhere really.
 
Fraggle Rocker said:
Anglo-Saxon barbarians invaded the civilized Britannia that was abandoned by the collapsing Roman empire, ran the Celtic Britons out of their own country, and turned it into "Angle-Land."

The people who now cleverly call themselves "British" even though they speak a Saxon tongue, are nothing but a really lucky horde of Germanic pillagers who found a paradise for the taking.

It's been their M.O. ever since.

Yeah - and the British Government today says we gotta learn to be multicultural - fucking LOL! :D
 
Thats all sort of besides the point though, Britain hasnt faced a succesful invasion since 1066. All of those cultures combined to make the "English". There was no massacre of Britons when the Celts invaded, no massacre of Celts when the Romans invaded, no massacre of Romans when the Saxons invaded. All the cultures combined to make the culture of England. And those Germanic raiders, Saxons, were in turn diluted by Viking invaders.

Id go so far as to say most european nations are this way, the Spanish have Moorish history, the Italians have ancestory from barbarian tribes like the Goths and Alans. There are no nations that are pure, as it were.
 
c'mon everyone, all countries fught wars at some time, after a certain amount of time, it should actually become your land, who cares who owned England when it was first settled??
 
You could never seperate people back out into Celts, Saxons, Romans, Vikings, Britons, all the others now, because were all British. Thats the nationality.
 
Working Class Hero said:
You could never separate people back out into Celts, Saxons, Romans, Vikings, Britons, all the others now, because were all British. Thats the nationality.
We're taught that there is virtually no Celtic blood in the English people. The Britons were not occupied by the Angles and Saxons, but rather quite thoroughly driven out of what is now England. They survive in the corners into which they were chased: Wales, Cornwall, and Brittany. After being separated for so long, they have grown apart and evolved into separate cultures with distinct Celtic languages.
 
Yeah, but that was the first and only "drive out" really. From then on the conquerers were colonists, it just isnt economically viable to massacre the populations that will generate your wealth in a fuedal system.
 
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