On mystical atheists

Kittamaru said:
Allow me to toss an actual insult into the mix then:

You are so out of touch with reality as to think I have formed some sort of personal friendship/attachment to Balerion, the selfsame one who, not two weeks ago was cussing me out and otherwise out for my blood...
Pull... your head... out of your ass.

Seriously. You are like a prepubescent child - the slightest bit of conflict and you go crying to, well, anyone that listens really, desperate to have the "offender" removed from the conversation.

Ain't gonna fly here... in fact, at this point, I hazard to guess that most moderators see your name on a "reported post" email and immediately trash the damned thing.
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I experienced this same sort of hostility and bias from Syne when he was a mod. So spare me the drama and the overpersonalized insults. I'm used to being targeted here for whatever reason.
 
Magical Realist said:
I see. So now you're gonna tell ME what I believe. Was there something about the concept of mystical that you failed to grasp?
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I fail to understand how you can believe in some of the things you appear to believe in. Like the fairy's thread and the ring clouds thread... The desperate desire for there to be "something"..

Even when I gave you the correct scientific explanation, you still kept asking if it was possibly something 'more going on there'.. Otherworldly, mystical.. Perhaps instead of giving you the correct and scientific explanation, I should have asked you what else did you think it was or could be.

The latest is fairies and gnomes.. The videos you linked.. You cannot be even remotely serious. My favourite was the one of a gnome attack that you seemed to take seriously.. the video was supposedly from the US, the voices were Australian accents and really bad acting.. And you took it seriously and became offended when people laughed at it because you think people are rejecting actual evidence... of a garden gnome attack on police officers. It defies logic that you can fall for such fake things and believe them.. And then claim to be an atheist. You don't believe in God but you believe in fairies and gnomes? Do you think the unicorn and C'thulu is real as well?

No offense, but it is as if you are substituting one thing for the other. You appear to be so lost without a belief in something that you would apparently believe in anything, including violent garden gnomes and fairies.
 
Kittamaru said:
Oh sod off you. Someone had to say it



You're used to being targeted because you paint a bloody big target on your chest, pin a note to your back saying "Kick Me", and generally put up this front that everyone else is crazy for not believing everything you say. Guess what - the evidence, if you call it that, is quite severely lacking; if it weren't, as Balerion said, people would actually believe it and take it seriously.
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Actually 3 out 4 americans believe in the paranormal in some form. So if you're going to use the "you ain't on the bandwagon" argument, at least make sure you're on it first.

As for why Syne attacked me and infracted me, you don't have clue on that. He was a homophobe and I am gay. Nuff said there I think..
 
Balerion said:
Not the bit about trashing his reports. That's not cool.

Look, all I'm saying is, you better be British for all the British things you say. :p

"Cuz we're best frieeeeeends"
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Half British actually, from my fathers side. Ironically enough, my family tree traces back to a common lineage with Phil Collins - yes, that Phil Collins; splits around my great, great, great grandfather if memory serves (been a while since I've seen the actual paperwork on it... doubt I'll see it anytime soon since we sent my father back to England after my parents divorce heh)

Magical Realist said:
Actually 3 out 4 americans believe in the paranormal in some form. So if you're going to use the "you ain't on the bandwagon" argument, at least make sure you're on it first.
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I have my own beliefs in the "paranormal" mate... though I don't consider them paranormal, just normal and us simply lacking knowledge in the area. However, some things are beyond nuts without some kind of serious evidence... and I'm talking something like a body. (for example, if fairies and gnomes existed, why is it we haven't found any remains?)

Magical Realist said:
As for why Syne attacked me and infracted me, you don't have clue on that. He was a homophobe and I am gay. Nuff said there I think..
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Makes no difference to me if your straight, gay, bi, et al - long as you respect that I'm straight (not to mention married), I have no qualms with which way your "barn door swings", just don't swing it at me ;)

If memory serves, I was pushing to have Syne's trolling infraction reversed for ya... so, yeah.

For what it's worth, I'm sorry I snapped at ya - it was out of line. I don't know why I'm so put off right now, but that's no excuse.
 
Magical Realist said:
Actually 3 out 4 americans believe in the paranormal in some form. So if you're going to use the "you ain't on the bandwagon" argument, at least make sure you're on it first.
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I would venture that there's quite a gap between "in some form" and "literally anything anyone puts in front of me."
 
Kittamaru said:
Half British actually, from my fathers side. Ironically enough, my family tree traces back to a common lineage with Phil Collins - yes, that Phil Collins; splits around my great, great, great grandfather if memory serves (been a while since I've seen the actual paperwork on it... doubt I'll see it anytime soon since we sent my father back to England after my parents divorce heh)
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Fascinating! Especially the bit about you in the hit air balloon. And then when you swam with dolphins! Or was it sharks? Oh alright, I didn't read it.
 
The latest is fairies and gnomes.. The videos you linked.. You cannot be even remotely serious. My favourite was the one of a gnome attack that you seemed to take seriously.. the video was supposedly from the US, the voices were Australian accents and really bad acting.. And you took it seriously and became offended when people laughed at it because you think people are rejecting actual evidence... of a garden gnome attack on police officers. It defies logic that you can fall for such fake things and believe them.. And then claim to be an atheist. You don't believe in God but you believe in fairies and gnomes? Do you think the unicorn and C'thulu is real as well?
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That garden gnome attack video was a total joke. And I never took offense at anyone laughing. As for do I think these videos represent something real, I don't know. I think that if there is even the slimmest chance that things like this can happen, they are at least worth looking at.
 
Magical Realist said:
That garden gnome attack video was a total joke. And I never took offense at anyone laughing. As for do I think these videos represent something real, I don't know. I think that if there is even the slimmest chance that things like this can happen, they are at least worth looking at.
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Thank you for the clarification. It saved my wine coming out of my nose.

However these videos do not represent anything real. They are fake and are created to feed the need for people to believe in such things. It's a booming market and many vulnerable people make for easy pickings.
 
Balerion said:
Fascinating! Especially the bit about you in the hit air balloon. And then when you swam with dolphins! Or was it sharks? Oh alright, I didn't read it.
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A hot air balloon was forced to and in a field across from my house once after bird (believe it was a hawk?) tore the canopy up after quite literally flying into it. Never swam with dolphins though... would love to one day, but they have a nasty tendency to try and hump people...

We're rather off topic at this point though.
 
Kittamaru said:
A hot air balloon was forced to and in a field across from my house once after bird (believe it was a hawk?) tore the canopy up after quite literally flying into it. Never swam with dolphins though... would love to one day, but they have a nasty tendency to try and hump people...
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OMG, there's a sequel?? I could barely stay awake through the first one!

We're rather off topic at this point though.
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Quite so! Chip chip cheerio!
 
Oddly enough, nobody in England actually says that (at least not anymore)... you might get something along the lines of "Good show chaps, Cheerio!" nowadays. Oh, and the quote all the American films use is "Pip Pip Cheerio", not Chip Chip:

Wiktionary said:
pip pip
English[edit]
Interjection[edit]
pip pip

(UK, colloquial) general greeting, mostly used by the upper classes.
Pip pip! What's going on here?
(UK, colloquial) used to create enthusiasm, mostly by the upper classes.
Pip pip! Let's get out there and knock the stuffing out of 'em!
Usage notes[edit]
Very rarely used in North America and not likely to be understood, where it is most likely to be considered humorous and is often used in a parody of British English speakers, particularly in Pip pip, cheerio! or Pip pip, old chap!.
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Kittamaru said:
Oddly enough, nobody in England actually says that (at least not anymore)... you might get something along the lines of "Good show chaps, Cheerio!" nowadays. Oh, and the quote all the American films use is "Pip Pip Cheerio", not Chip Chip:
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Well, you'd know, being half-British, and all.
 
Magical Realist said:
Actually I "wish" paranormal phenomena DIDN'T occur.
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pi5pykeiB.png

Your wish is granted.
It doesn't.


I like your threads MR.
You post some of the best discussions on here.


Re Cheerio Pip Pip.
Could be old airforce slang.
The RAF were prolific inventors of new words. see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_slang
You only ever hear it now said as a joke, or in corny old war films.
 
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Tiassa said:
The challenge facing the "mystical atheist" is clear enough and simply stated: Show the reality of these "mystical" aspects.
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We all seem to agree that logic exists and that it's definitive of 'reason'. But what is logic, really? What kind of existence does it have? How do human beings like ourselves even know anything about it? Why does reality seemingly conform to it?

There are all kinds of similar questions regarding the 'laws of physics', mathematics and so on. What are they? How do humans learn about them? Why do real-life events seem to conform to them?

We all use language and speak about things. So, how exactly do words connect to whatever the words refer to? What connects 'table' to the table? Philosophers have produced many theories of reference, but the fact is that at present, nobody really knows.

There's time. What's the present exactly? It seems to be moving in a past --> future direction, how is that possible? (What kind of velocity does that movement have, hours per... what?) What's the ontological status of the future and the past? How does possibility factor in to all this?

What's up with causality? How does one event connect to another and even seem to necessitate it?

The truth (what's truth?) is that just about any aspect of human life experience kind of comes apart into a whole collection mysteries as soon as we start asking 'why' a few times. Everywhere that we look around us, we find ourselves at the frontiers of human knowledge in just a matter of moments.

So, what justification might there be for using the word 'mystical' to refer to this omnipresent mystery?

One possible definition of the word 'mystical' might be along the lines of (1) a direct, unmediated experience of (2) a reality or dimension of reality not ordinarily perceived, and (3) a cognitive awareness by the experiencer of the profundity of this experience. (Paraphrased from the Perennial Dictionary of World Religions p. 508).

I'll finish by reposting the quote of Einstein's that MR posted earlier in the thread:

"The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion. Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science. Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man. To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties — this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men."-- Albert Einstein
 
Magical Realist said:
No..I don't believe in God or intelligent design at all. I believe in Reality. Isn't that enough?
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Tiassa said:
As a static existence, sure. Anything else is up to you, and it doesn't really matter how much other people might laugh when you call yourself an atheist.
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A sense of what we might call the transcendence of the reality surrounding us (it certainly transcends our current understanding and it likely always will) needn't equate to a belief in theism or to a repudiation of atheism.
 
Magical Realist said:
Thanks. I like to think I keep things interesting here. If we all agreed on the same things, what a boring world it would be.
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*throws chairs and tables around*

Oh... we weren't going for mass chaos...? Damn.
 
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