On faith

Discussion in 'Religion' started by Magical Realist, Jun 22, 2016.

  1. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    That's a semantic argument for God, one I haven't heard before, probably because it fails instantly. The definition of words (which you got wrong) are not arguments in favor of the objects of those words existing. Theists are "with" God in the sense that they hold the opinion (even the faith) that he exists. Atheists are without it in that they don't hold the opinion it exists. Theism isn't a restatement of a fact that God exists, that's a theological position. But that's a typical approach you take, using definitions instead of arguments.
    YES! If your idea isn't falsifiable, you've admitted that it's illogical. I think you do admit that your position is unsupportable by logic, reason, or science, so you lose the debate, by any reasonable measure. At least be honest and assert that you hold your beliefs with conviction for reasons compelling only to you and perhaps other theists.
     
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  3. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    You're the one who said God is all there is - not me. How arrogant of you!

    The universe is "all there is". So by your definition, the universe is God & God is the universe. The word for that is pantheism.
     
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  5. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I ask my mom one time why she believed in God... an she said that she had never told anyone befor... but it was because when she gave birth to my sister she had a veil over her face an didnt breath as soon as she shoud have... an mom prayed real hard to God for the child to live an it did... an thats what sealed the deal for her belief in God.!!!

    Maybe Jan has a simular story but dont want to tell it... cause... kinda like the superstition -- if you tell you'r birthday wish it wont come true... i.e... if you tell you'r God belief story you'r belief coud get messed up.???
     
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  7. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Google it.

    What would be the evidence?

    God isn't categorised as 'things.'
    https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=ms-android-h3g-gb&hl=en-GB&ei=dGzIV-S0O4_b6QTy-4KwAg&q=everything definition&oq=everything d&gs_l=mobile-gws-serp.1.1.0i20k1j0l4.10957.11631.0.13396.3.3.0.0.0.0.199.371.0j2.2.0....0...1.1.64.mobile-gws-serp..1.2.370...0i67k1.Vkkd0bvwFOU

    I don't know why you should. That's something you have to work out.

    I told you already. God is.
    There's nothing more to say to you.

    Is there any current evidence, argument, explanation, or idea that will make you accept God?

    I'm not sure that it's possible to believe thusly. Do you know of anything which people believe in without evidence?

    Deal with the issues of physical evidence for God's existence, in an appropriate thread. I'm not dealing with it on this thread.

    One word. ATheos.

    You have no idea of what evidence of God should be, yet you ask for evidence. You're not even prepared to google evidence, probably because you think you know that nothing is evidence. Yet you can't even explain what would be regarded as evidence.
    Please yourself. That's what you do anyway.

    I don't believe you.

    Atheist =ATheos. Do you think it is possible that you are actually without God?

    There are lots of evidences for God. I'm not going to discuss them in this thread.

    How would you know that what I or anyone (google) showed you, would be the thing you request?
    Do you even know the actuality of what you request?

    That is your concern.

    It's all about yooooooo!

    Jan.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2016
  8. Jan Ardena OM!!! Valued Senior Member

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    That is the definition of God, so I don't see how I'm being arrogant.

    My definition says nothing of the sort.
    Stop paraphrasing.

    Jan.
     
  9. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    I think he has, I'm having trouble remembering the details.
     
  10. spidergoat pubic diorama Valued Senior Member

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    It's one definition that you like, because it seems to be an argument.
     
  11. Tiassa Let us not launch the boat ... Valued Senior Member

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    Functionally speaking, the application is more panentheistic; I can either make it sound really complicated or simply suggest it's an inevitable result of infinitude and totality.
     
  12. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    After he told it the discussion prolly led to his feelins gettin hurt an he wont discuss it anymore.???

    I woud thank that stayin in the closet (so to speek) an not discussin you'r views woud be even more hurtful.!!!
    Personaly... im confident in myself an open wit my beliefs an it feels grate.!!!
     
  13. Baldeee Valued Senior Member

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    2,226
    Okay.
    Why do you find Jesus appearing on a tortilla as evidence of God rather than simply an example of pareidolia?
    I don't know.
    Do you?
    Hence my clarification of how I was using the term "everything".
    I have worked it out: I don't.
    And so much for honest discussion.
    What is it, the questions too taxing?
    None that I am aware of, but that is not to say that none exist.
    But this discussion is not about me accepting God or not; we have established and agree that you believe in God and I do not.
    This discussion is about why people believe, why they have faith.
    You seem quite comfortable with your understanding of why atheists lack belief in the existence of God, but you seem reluctant to explore your side.
    You know, the ones who actually have faith in God?
    From my perspective, yes.
    They claim they have evidence but can't reproduce it, can't explain it, and seem unwilling to discuss it.
    It is appropriate for this thread in as much, as explained, that the identification and treatment of such speak to the difference between those who have faith (the thread subject) and those that don't.
    You were happy to discuss the issue of evidence when it suited you, and now you are refusing.
    So much for honest discussion.
    Your point being?
    No, I ask for examples of what you take as evidence.
    Then we can perhaps discuss it.
    Seems I have to in any attempted discussion with you, as you seem decidedly unhelpful.
    Yet you won't even try to see if it's not true.
    I think it entirely possible that everyone is without God, even those who claim to be otherwise.
    Why not?
    It is relevant to the discussion.
    Yes, I'm asking you to provide example of what you consider evidence to be, so that we can then discuss why it is that some people do not see it as reasonable evidence for God, if indeed anyone does.
    Would what you showed me be actual evidence of God?
    You might believe so (even though you have previously said that there is no physical evidence of God, right?) but until you show me the example I can not say what I think it is reasonable evidence of.
    So you really aren't here to discuss, honestly or otherwise.
    Why are you here, Jan?
    Doesn't seem to be, Jan.
    Seems to be all about you refusing to discuss anything.
     
  14. gmilam Valued Senior Member

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    3,527
    Can you remember your own posts?

    You said, "God is all there is."
    I replied, "If God is all there is, that's is pantheism."

    You replied, "That's what you think it is. How arrogant you are that you believe your perception "is all there is"".

    I feed your definition back to you and you call me arrogant.

    Idiot.
     
  15. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    I'm afraid he's got you there, Jan.

    Your insistence that he "Google it" is an implicit assertion that anything he finds is evidence, in your books.

    Surely you knew being coy about your assertions was going to backfire eventually.
     
    cluelusshusbund likes this.
  16. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    18,959
    See, that's the thing. Evidence should stand on its own merit. It does if it's objective evidence. But when it's personal evidence, it tends to be fragile - not robust enough for anyone else to kick its doors and slam its tires.
     
  17. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Speaking of splendor of God is not preaching. If I say he is formless yet he is formful, how is that preaching? If I say its there all around but he is nowhere, how is that preaching? If I say he is there in you and there in me, then how is that preaching? If I say he is there in life and he is there in death, then how is that preaching?

    Pl do understand, an atheist will not understand it, even my objective brain does not understand it. But then who can claim that he has understood the God completely, well it may create further issues but the objective of life is to attain him to understand him completely, to reach to him, to find him.
     
  18. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    I talked to a Muslim guy one time who said he tried realy hard to find God... but he didnt find him.!!!
    Im almost 70 an i have never even thout about/had any desire to look for a God... any idea why you thank that is.???
     
  19. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    Because you're a godless heathen?

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    I found Jesus.

    He was behind the couch the whole time!
     
  20. The God Valued Senior Member

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    No idea.
    You know what happens, if you achieve a set target. To continue you will set a higher target, but there is no higher objective after you find the God. Thats the end. Confused? I am not.
     
  21. The God Valued Senior Member

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    Well you start again with your venom..
     
  22. cluelusshusbund + Public Dilemma + Valued Senior Member

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    Well i guess so... but i wonder if i was just born bad... or had a bad influence along the way that kept me from findin God.???

    I dont understand how somone can search for somptin they dont believe exists???... is that what you did.???
     
  23. DaveC426913 Valued Senior Member

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    18,959
    What make you think I was searching?

    I'm a godless heathen like you.
     

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