On "Cancel Culture"

[billvon]

No, I wouldn't

So you support cancel culture as well. Thank you for the honest response.

 

[Vociferous]

So you support cancel culture as well. Thank you for the honest response.

No, but as usual, you can only manage to take quotes completely out of context. Your intellectual dishonesty demonstrably knows no bounds. Does that transparent lack of integrity actually make you feel good, like you've made a real point? If so, chalk it up to Dunning-Kruger.

 

[pjdude1219]

You're being disingenuous if you're pretending that leftists do not self-identify as Democrats.

they don't. most true left wing people in the states loathe the democratic party.

No, there's clear evidence that the far left is increasingly taking over the Democrat party and that every supposed "slippery slope" has proven to eventually come true.

no there isn't. there is no far left in the united states.

There are leftists, leftists who lie about how left they are, leftists who merely condone far leftism, Democrats who are oblivious to either how far left their party has moved or politics in general, and Blue Dog Democrats who are a dying breed, increasingly being driven from their own party.

just no. none of that is true. quit watching fox news OAN and learn what the actual spectrum is

Just because the Overton window moves with the left, due to the ubiquity of left-leaning media, doesn't mean the Democrat party is not moving left. But, I wouldn't expect you to recognize that.

considering the Overton window in the states allows for the literal support of rightwing domestic terrorist by elected officials while anything the slightest bit to the left of center is derided as communist you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

LOL! A net negative illegal immigration doesn't mean there's no illegal immigration. And border counties are currently showing very high spikes in Covid cases.

but that wasn't your argument. your argument was that the southern border is especially porous, its not, immigration across the southern border has been decreasing steadily since the obama administration both legal and illegal, and that people coming would be directly causing hot spots which isn't the case. the surge in cases is probably more about the general ineffectual response by republican leadership than illegal immigration. you are trying to absolve republican leadership of refusing to protect public health and trying to blame it on mexico.


so you really cant help yourself but seem pathologically dependent on racism in your posts.


and billvon isn't being intellectually dishonest you are.

 

[pjdude1219]

Fallacy, straw man: "single-handedly sowed distrust in the media".



Fallacy: The poll asks Democrats. You should probably check in with actual leftists, sometime, on how they feel about mainstream media. The Gallup Mass Media Poll, for instance, isn't really considering, say, a Democrat's trust in the World Socialist Web Site, or any number of leftist newspapers that leftists distribute because they don't trust corporate media.

One reason conservatives are so often alarmed about radical leftist Democrats is because they have no idea what real leftism is. They're doing it to themselves. And, really, it's not a new problem; these days, there isn't really any excuse for mistaking Democrats as leftists.

you have to remember anything to the left of george wallace for people like him are the same thing as communists.

 

[Vociferous]

they don't. most true left wing people in the states loathe the democratic party.

Yet they still reliably vote Democrat. Try that argument again when the Democrat party has lost all those votes.

no there isn't. there is no far left in the united states. just no. none of that is true. quit watching fox news OAN and learn what the actual spectrum is considering the Overton window in the states allows for the literal support of rightwing domestic terrorist by elected officials while anything the slightest bit to the left of center is derided as communist you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

No, you're just ignorant of how the Overton window has moved. The median left is now further left from Obama, in his first term, than Obama was from the median right, at the time. And since I never watch Fox News nor OAN, your accusations are just further evidence that you're a completely out of touch bubble-dweller. You just keep throwing genetic fallacies at straw caricatures in your head.

but that wasn't your argument. your argument was that the southern border is especially porous, its not, immigration across the southern border has been decreasing steadily since the obama administration both legal and illegal, and that people coming would be directly causing hot spots which isn't the case. the surge in cases is probably more about the general ineffectual response by republican leadership than illegal immigration. you are trying to absolve republican leadership of refusing to protect public health and trying to blame it on mexico.

Decreasing is not mutually exclusive with porous (never said nor implied "especially porous", that's your straw man). Illegal immigration can both be decreasing while a border is still porous. Illegal immigration would actually have to stop altogether for a border to no longer be porous. Get how simple reason works?

So a red state, like Texas, somehow has especially bad Republican leadership, only along the border? That doesn't follow unless you have some reason or evidence that border leaders would be especially bad. Some specific policy difference from elsewhere in the state. Unless or until you've got some, Occam's razor dictates the simplest answer.

so you really cant help yourself but seem pathologically dependent on racism in your posts.

It's actually only you implying that any of this somehow adheres specifically to race, which makes you the clear racist. I'm saying, as articles I've cited show, that different policies have different outcomes. Get that? You're making the racist assumptions, by presuming that those different responses are somehow due to race. As if they are inherent to race. I assure all racists, like you, that is not the case.

and billvon isn't being intellectually dishonest you are.

If you can't clearly see him quoting out of context, that's on you, or your parents and/or education.

you have to remember anything to the left of george wallace for people like him are the same thing as communists.

I'm sure that's what you have to tell yourself.

 

[iceaura]

Trump said the Obama administration left him with a "stockpile with a cupboard that was bare."

That's called "lying". Trump does that a lot, and always has. Surely you don't still believe him, after the past four years?

In one specific way, he has a point: N95 masks were depleted after the H1N1 outbreak in 2009, and experts warned years ago that the supply should have been replenished.

Trump destroyed the ability of the US Federal government to replenish them.

The Trump administration disbanded the “pandemic response” team, but some of the team members were reassigned to roles that included pandemic response

According to your link, none of the members of the disbanded pandemic response team (or the other three or four related agencies that Trump demolished) were reassigned to a pandemic response team. According to your link, the ones that were not fired from government altogether were "reassigned" to underling roles in bioweapons and biowarfare response - that is not at all the same as leading roles in pandemic response, and the differences proved crucial when the latest virus outbreak showed up and the US Federal government was unable to respond as it had in past administrations (including Obama's).

You're being disingenuous if you're pretending that leftists do not self-identify as Democrats.

You clearly don't know any actual leftists. (They mostly don't "self-identify" as Democrats.)

And you need to pay attention to the direction of implication - you keep getting things backwards: here the question was whether Democrats are leftists - not the other way around.

btw: You could make a better argument that way. Considering that the majority of Americans (70% or more) hold overall socioeconomic positions to the left of both major Parties (and more libertarian than either), it's quite likely that most Democrats are also "leftists" in that technical sense - as are most Republicans, probably. You could definitely argue the case, with evidence. But you can't easily argue that they "self-identify" as leftists - they don't.

There is a substantial fraction of self-identified leftists who are in fact Democrats - they have registered as Democrats for political purposes. But not even those folks "self-identify" as Democrats.

No, there's clear evidence that the far left is increasingly taking over the Democrat party

No, there is not. The most you can say is that the fifty year slide to the right has been held up, at least temporarily - but even that is a bit dubious, given the nomination of Joe Biden and the isolation of Elizabeth Warren.

The Democratic Party currently occupies approximately the left/right political position the Republican Party occupied during Eisenhower's presidency. Its current Presidential nominee, for example, has been trying to cut back Social Security, "privatize" a variety of governmental functions, and deregulate the US credit and banking system in various ways - major political positions well to the right of Eisenhower/Nixon. The far left has yet to recover even the minority influence it had under Roosevelt - recall that FDR was not a "far left" politician, but obviously farther left than any Democratic presidential nominee since.

The reason you don't know this, btw, is that you don't know what "left" is - you have no idea what a leftist thinks, or what political positions they hold that identify them as leftist.

 

[paddoboy]

The reason you don't know this, btw, is that you don't know what "left" is - you have no idea what a leftist thinks, or what political positions they hold that identify them as leftist.

But, but, but, how can that be??? I'm so so shocked!!! He mentions left, lefties, lefty in every post! Surely he knows what he is talking about???*nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

 

[iceaura]

The median left is now further left from Obama, in his first term, than Obama was from the median right, at the time.

Obama was well to the right of the median American.

So a red state, like Texas, somehow has especially bad Republican leadership, only along the border?

Texas's especially bad Republican leadership especially harms the border regions, yep. That's primarily because of racism - the border regions are less white.

 

[pjdude1219]

Yet they still reliably vote Democrat. Try that argument again when the Democrat party has lost all those votes.

no they don't

No, you're just ignorant of how the Overton window has moved. The median left is now further left from Obama, in his first term, than Obama was from the median right, at the time.

the fact you used the phrases median right and median left shows you are ignorant of what the overton window actually is.

And since I never watch Fox News nor OAN, your accusations are just further evidence that you're a completely out of touch bubble-dweller.

and yet your talking points are lifted from them completely.

You just keep throwing genetic fallacies at straw caricatures in your head.

funny how thats its always a strawman when someone calls you on your bullshit.

Decreasing is not mutually exclusive with porous (never said nor implied "especially porous", that's your straw man). Illegal immigration can both be decreasing while a border is still porous. Illegal immigration would actually have to stop altogether for a border to no longer be porous. Get how simple reason works?

considering a border is supposed to be permeable your reasoning is stupid. when referring to a national border as porous the implication is it is in the extreme. so no illegal immigration would not have to stop for the border to not be porous. also your whining about the southern border shows you don't actually understand how illegal immigrants get into this country.

So a red state, like Texas, somehow has especially bad Republican leadership, only along the border?

no texas has bad republican leadership everywhere. the border just has a conflux of conditions that help covid.

That doesn't follow unless you have some reason or evidence that border leaders would be especially bad. Some specific policy difference from elsewhere in the state. Unless or until you've got some, Occam's razor dictates the simplest answer.

you meran the idea that labeling the pandemic a hoax would have negative outcomes.

It's actually only you implying that any of this somehow adheres specifically to race, which makes you the clear racist.

brazen and stupid i see. really you can't see how suggesting other ethnic groups would bring in disease when their is no evidence of them doing so is racist?

I'm saying, as articles I've cited show, that different policies have different outcomes. Get that?

considering your article suggested should we should be listening to democrats are you sure you read it?

You're making the racist assumptions, by presuming that those different responses are somehow due to race.

don't push your racist bullshit on me. you are the one who claimed the reason the for hotspots on the border was do to hispanics not me.

As if they are inherent to race. I assure all racists, like you, that is not the case.

please quit pushing your racist beliefs on me. and seriously i grow tired of your childish pushing every criticism of you onto everyone else. own you shit.

If you can't clearly see him quoting out of context, that's on you, or your parents and/or education.

no your just lying like you always do. you refuse to admit trump is saying what he is saying. this is exactly like you lying about the WHO

I'm sure that's what you have to tell yourself.

its the truth. you have no fucking clue where things lie on the political spectrum nor understand just how rightwing american politicians are(the voting population is not). the shit that you ignorantly claim is "far left" in most cases is barely cener left and in some cases center right in other countries. you have no idea what actually constitutes far left. given your open support of trumps fascist tendencies im not surprised your ignorant of such things.

 

[Tiassa]

No, you just failed to follow the whole discussion.
That started from Q saying: "Trump is trying to intimidate critical media organizations, stop the publication of books that he doesn’t like, and purge the executive branch of anyone who disagrees with him." - [link]
IOW, in case you still can't manage to follow, it was about Trump's treatment of the media, from the start.

That one might participate in something does not translate to "single-handedly".

You're being disingenuous if you're pretending that leftists do not self-identify as Democrats.

Cory Doctorow↱ recently posted a thread on the point "that 'liberals' are not leftists, and that while we on the left might sometimes ally with liberals, we are not on the same side"; it runs thirty-nine tweets, so, yeah, have fun. Recalling that Democrats who ran away from universal healthcare in order to oblige people to private-sector insurance books are, in the minds of many who supported the individaul mandate when it was the Heritage Foundation or Mitt Romney, radical leftists for bringing the policy to bear at a federal level, it's easy enough to understand why a right-winger given to ahistorical potsherd narratives might show confusion about what the left actually is.
____________________

Notes:

@doctorow. "Back in 2016, @thomasfrank_'s 'Listen, Liberal!' forcefully explained that 'liberals' are not leftists, and that while we on the left might sometimes ally with liberals, we are not on the same side." Twitter. 1 August 2020. Twitter.com. 2 August 2020. https://bit.ly/33h4sCQ

 

[Vociferous]

Yet they still reliably vote Democrat. Try that argument again when the Democrat party has lost all those votes.

no they don't

Then leftists either vote third party, siphoning erstwhile Democrat votes, or they don't vote at all, and are completely irrelevant.
Either way, the Democrat party is doomed.

No, you're just ignorant of how the Overton window has moved. The median left is now further left from Obama, in his first term, than Obama was from the median right, at the time.

the fact you used the phrases median right and median left shows you are ignorant of what the overton window actually is.

I never said the Overton window was a function of the left and right medians. You're just ignorant of how leftists are over-represented in the media, skewing the Overton window.

And since I never watch Fox News nor OAN, your accusations are just further evidence that you're a completely out of touch bubble-dweller.

and yet your talking points are lifted from them completely.

So you watch Fox News and OAN?
Otherwise, how would you know?

funny how thats its always a strawman when someone calls you on your bullshit.

When I don't think either Hillary nor Biden are communists, that literally makes your claim that "anything the slightest bit to the left of center is derided as communist" a straw man.

considering a border is supposed to be permeable your reasoning is stupid. when referring to a national border as porous the implication is it is in the extreme. so no illegal immigration would not have to stop for the border to not be porous. also your whining about the southern border shows you don't actually understand how illegal immigrants get into this country.

No, I used porous specifically in the context of illegal immigration. You know, permeable beyond immigration law and control, like screening for illness.
Porous borders are those that are more permeable than border controls otherwise allow. An extremely porous border would be an open border, with little or no border control at all.

And yes, I know all about people overstaying their visas. That has nothing to do with the disproportionate spike in Covid cases along the border.

no texas has bad republican leadership everywhere. the border just has a conflux of conditions that help covid.

What "conflux of conditions"? You know, besides being on the border.

you meran the idea that labeling the pandemic a hoax would have negative outcomes.

Even if true, why would that have a disproportionate affect in the border counties? Eventually you're going to have to make a supported argument of your own, rather than just repeatedly denying mine with mere bare assertions.

brazen and stupid i see. really you can't see how suggesting other ethnic groups would bring in disease when their is no evidence of them doing so is racist?

I agree, it is brazen, stupid, and racist of you to imply that some ethnic group would be especially predisposed to spreading disease. Especially when no one, but you, has implied that ethnicity has anything to do with it. The Mexican politicians responding worse to the pandemic than the US has nothing to do with their ethnicity. You're the only one here who has presumed it does.

considering your article suggested should we should be listening to democrats are you sure you read it?

Now you're just lying (or didn't bother reading it yourself, and thus projecting), as neither article mentions Democrats.

don't push your racist bullshit on me. you are the one who claimed the reason the for hotspots on the border was do to hispanics not me.

If you really don't like racist assumptions, quit making them. I never said anything about Hispanics. You made that racist presumption all on your own. Go look for yourself. I dare you.

please quit pushing your racist beliefs on me. and seriously i grow tired of your childish pushing every criticism of you onto everyone else. own you shit.

Quit projecting your racism on me. You just keep reading your own racist presumptions in between the lines of anything I actually say. Since you're the one demonstrably seeing race where I've not mentioned it at all, you're clearly the racist one here. And all you have to do is stop making those assumptions. If you can.

no your just lying like you always do. you refuse to admit trump is saying what he is saying.

No, that's just you ignorantly presuming everything Trump says is 100% serious.

its the truth. you have no fucking clue where things lie on the political spectrum nor understand just how rightwing american politicians are(the voting population is not). the shit that you ignorantly claim is "far left" in most cases is barely cener left and in some cases center right in other countries. you have no idea what actually constitutes far left. given your open support of trumps fascist tendencies im not surprised your ignorant of such things.

You sound like you're as deluded as ice aura, claiming Hillary and CNN are right-wing, and AOC in centrist. If that's the case, you'll be joining him on my iggy.
What's center-right in other countries has nothing to do with the US, as right and left in the US do not correspond to those elsewhere. I'm not the least bit surprise that you're ignorant of that too.

 

[Vociferous]

That one might participate in something does not translate to "single-handedly".

You ignoring the context of the discussion does not mean you're making a meaningful contribution to it.

Cory Doctorow↱ recently posted a thread on the point "that 'liberals' are not leftists, and that while we on the left might sometimes ally with liberals, we are not on the same side"; it runs thirty-nine tweets, so, yeah, have fun. Recalling that Democrats who ran away from universal healthcare in order to oblige people to private-sector insurance books are, in the minds of many who supported the individaul mandate when it was the Heritage Foundation or Mitt Romney, radical leftists for bringing the policy to bear at a federal level, it's easy enough to understand why a right-winger given to ahistorical potsherd narratives might show confusion about what the left actually is.

And again, you show your ignorance of the difference between the Obama and Heritage individual mandates.

I've never said all liberals are leftists. It's a valid distinction.

 

[billvon]

No, but as usual, you can only manage to take quotes completely out of context.

Once again, Angry Ape falls back on the "you're taking it OUT OF CONTEXT!" dodge when backed into a corner.

Again, thank you for admitting that you would refuse to shop at a store that advocates for something you disagree with. You can now return to calling people who do that the "thought police," and blame them for prioritizing political correctness and orthodoxy over people's businesses and jobs.

 

[Vociferous]

Once again, Angry Ape falls back on the "you're taking it OUT OF CONTEXT!" dodge when backed into a corner.

Again, thank you for admitting that you would refuse to shop at a store that advocates for something you disagree with. You can now return to calling people who do that the "thought police," and blame them for prioritizing political correctness and orthodoxy over people's businesses and jobs.

It's not a dodge when you literally take only part of a sentence to imply it says the complete opposite of what it actually did. That's either you lying or you demonstrating your inability to read/comprehend English. Take your pick.

And you're still lying about it. Does that really make you feel good or righteous? Or just trolling?

 

[RainbowSingularity]

Recalling that Democrats who ran away from universal healthcare in order to oblige people to private-sector insurance books

... !
and they harpooned(in the back) bernies public wave of support to do so
which had they come together would have likely put him in real contention

what a legacy that would have been to follow on from the ACA and create a new level of economic stability
but that is not how capitalism thinks
now the entire USA health system is running like a old push kart down hill with wobbly wheels about to fall off and no steering wheel

funny how elon brought that to the media attention with his questions about hospital bed occupancy rates

its fat billy bunter in the corner of the house made of candy eating the main supports screaming that everyone is against him(the American is Veruca Salt mixed with Augustus Gloop)

 

[billvon]

And you're still lying about it. Does that really make you feel good or righteous? Or just trolling?

Having you claim I am lying is like Ghislaine Maxwell calling me immoral. Makes me think I'm doing something right.

 

[Vociferous]

Having you claim I am lying is like Ghislaine Maxwell calling me immoral. Makes me think I'm doing something right.

Considering you seem to be implying that I lie and Maxwell would most certainly know immorality, at least admitting you're a liar is the first step. Now you know what to work on.

 

[iceaura]

I've never said all liberals are leftists. It's a valid distinction.

It's a distinction you have failed to make, repeatedly. That's partly because you don't know what the labels "leftist" or "liberal" mean.

You did say that leftists are self-described Democrats, and that the Democratic Party is a leftwing Party.
You did claim that there is a leftwing media bubble in the US, and identified it by its supposedly favorable treatment of Democratic Party politicians and policies - which are by assumption leftwing and vice versa - according to you.
And you explicitly refused to amend those false (obviously false, even silly) claims after repeatedly seeing the evidence and arguments against them, without refuting those arguments or recognizing that evidence.

Which brings us once again to this:

Considering you seem to be implying that I lie

As always with "conservative" attack dogging on these forums, in which every argument pivots to personal attack immediately upon resistance or challenge, the question becomes: Are they lying, or are they stupid?

The basis of that question is not an "implication", but a direct claim ( normally here an explicit preliminary one). And to forestall the immediate reaction: it's a claim made after, not before, carefully distinguishing innocent ignorance from stupidity.

It maintains willful ignorance, of course, as a category of stupidity - it's possible, and common, to be stupid on purpose. It's an important psychological factor in political disputes - the likely origin of the pivot to personal attack we see in every single rightwing "conservative" poster on this forum, with their obvious roots in the rightwing corporate authoritarian media bubble (which does exist, with influence approaching dominance in the US news and information media). The moral and ethical implications of that rest on the willfulness, not the ignorance.

 

[pjdude1219]

Then leftists either vote third party, siphoning erstwhile Democrat votes, or they don't vote at all, and are completely irrelevant.
Either way, the Democrat party is doomed.

so now you claim there are no right wing center right centrist and center left people in the country? it just jumps from far right to leftist?

I never said the Overton window was a function of the left and right medians.

and i never said you did. i said that talking about a median left or median right in the context of the overton window shows ignorance of what it is.

You're just ignorant of how leftists are over-represented in the media, skewing the Overton window.

there you go making shit up again. the overton window in the US is skewed right. considering the term was invented by a right winger to help push american policy to the right.

So you watch Fox News and OAN?
Otherwise, how would you know?

on occasion unlike you i try to understand what the other side is actually about. i don't do it for information nor do i enjoy it. it is how ever my civic duty to do so.

When I don't think either Hillary nor Biden are communists, that literally makes your claim that "anything the slightest bit to the left of center is derided as communist" a straw man.

for someone who defends trumps BS by saying he wasn't serious, your failure to recognize obvious hyperbole is kind of telling.

No, I used porous specifically in the context of illegal immigration. You know, permeable beyond immigration law and control, like screening for illness.

no you didn't. your trying to back peddle cause your racism got called out. also most illegal immigrants are screened for disease

Porous borders are those that are more permeable than border controls otherwise allow. An extremely porous border would be an open border, with little or no border control at all.

i love watching back peddle to cover your ass. no its not.

And yes, I know all about people overstaying their visas.

clearly no you don't if your trying to blame the spike on illegal immigration.

That has nothing to do with the disproportionate spike in Covid cases along the border.

true. first thing in this post.

What "conflux of conditions"? You know, besides being on the border.

republican leadership openly hostile to pandemic response, refusal to social distance, people actively trying to bring large groups of people together.

Even if true, why would that have a disproportionate affect in the border counties?

could be just random chance.

Eventually you're going to have to make a supported argument of your own, rather than just repeatedly denying mine with mere bare assertions.

considering your whole argument was brown people have disease i don't really need to refute it.

I agree, it is brazen, stupid, and racist of you to imply that some ethnic group would be especially predisposed to spreading disease.

i didn't you did you.

Especially when no one, but you, has implied that ethnicity has anything to do with it.

again it was you not me.

The Mexican politicians responding worse to the pandemic than the US has nothing to do with their ethnicity.

mexico has responded the same as the us. claiming its doing worse is showing your biases.

You're the only one here who has presumed it does.

look idf you really want to use i am to fucking stupid to understand the implications of my argument as a way to pretend your not racist thats on you. but that doesn't make me racist for seeing the clear racist implications of your argument.

Now you're just lying (or didn't bother reading it yourself, and thus projecting), as neither article mentions Democrats.

its called an implied premise.

If you really don't like racist assumptions, quit making them.

im not you are. please quit pretending me pointing out your reacism makes me racist

I never said anything about Hispanics.

of course not your not that stupid. you just leave it as an implied premise. your argument is based on that.

You made that racist presumption all on your own. Go look for yourself. I dare you.

i did as usual your lying. again your using the time honored right wing tactic of pretending your arguments don't mean what they do.

Quit projecting your racism on me.

im not your projecting your racism on to me.

You just keep reading your own racist presumptions in between the lines of anything I actually say.

again no. me seeing the clearly racist based implications of your argument doesn't make me racist. just like me calling out a sexism doesn't make me sexist.

Since you're the one demonstrably seeing race where I've not mentioned it at all, you're clearly the racist one here. And all you have to do is stop making those assumptions. If you can.

ok so here are your choices you admit your racism and we go from there or i treat you like the moron your claiming to be. seriously dude how childish are you. your entire defense against criticism is like that of a 6 year old. no im not you are.

No, that's just you ignorantly presuming everything Trump says is 100% serious.

funny how everything bad he says is a joke as far as your concerned. seriously your defense makes him look worse not better. a megalomaniac strongman who atrleast cares about the job is better than someone who treats as a joke. why are you so ok with him treating the highest office in the country like a joke. he is the president is it really to much to expect him to act with gravitas of the position

You sound like you're as deluded as ice aura, claiming Hillary and CNN are right-wing, and AOC in centrist.

i have my own issues with ice world views he is generally right. in that in the global scheme hillary and cnn are right wing and AOC however is one of the few true leftists in this country.

If that's the case, you'll be joining him on my iggy.

Nice to know you admit you lack the emotional maturity to be proven wrong

What's center-right in other countries has nothing to do with the US, as right and left in the US do not correspond to those elsewhere. I'm not the least bit surprise that you're ignorant of that too.

center right is center right. it doesn't magically become far left because people like you are ok with facism. again thats not how scales work. you can say something is to the left or to the right of something. but no facism isn't a center right idea simply because the us has a bunch of far right wackjobs in it. your argument is akin to claiming the milk in your fridge is a base because everything else in the fridge is more acidic. despite your attempts to claim center left and left ideas are extreme far left ideas doesn't change the fact that their not.

you literally have no idea of where the actual overton window is in the country. or more accurately you place it different places as your argument needs it to change. funny how you claim its so far left but at the same time things that would logically centrist are referred to you as "far left" how can anyone debate you if you cant even agree with your self what the definitions of terms are?

 

[Vociferous]

Then leftists either vote third party, siphoning erstwhile Democrat votes, or they don't vote at all, and are completely irrelevant.
Either way, the Democrat party is doomed.

so now you claim there are no right wing center right centrist and center left people in the country? it just jumps from far right to leftist?

No, it's typically the left who claim the whole right is far right. I know there's everything from violent fascist "antifa" black bloc (brownshirts), incrementalist socialists, establishment elitist Democrats increasingly pandering to the far left, left and right leaning centrists/swing voters/independents, classical liberals, libertarians, conservatives, the far right, and many shades in between. When the Democrat politicians are either pandering or outright identifying with the far left and ostracizing any socially conservative Democrats, the left-wing tent is shirking.

I assume from you avoiding what I actually said (in favor of your "just jumps from far right to leftist" straw man) that you don't disagree with my prognosis for the Democrat party.

and i never said you did. i said that talking about a median left or median right in the context of the overton window shows ignorance of what it is.

So just a bare assertion, with no supporting argument at all. Meh.

there you go making shit up again. the overton window in the US is skewed right. considering the term was invented by a right winger to help push american policy to the right.

No, you're just a conspiracy theorist, completely out of touch with reality.

Not to mention your little genetic fallacy there.

So you watch Fox News and OAN?
Otherwise, how would you know?

on occasion unlike you i try to understand what the other side is actually about. i don't do it for information nor do i enjoy it. it is how ever my civic duty to do so.

Then you watch Fox News and OAN more than I do, as I watch neither.
I regularly read CNN, NYT, WP, etc. and regularly cite them in my posts. So since I'm very familiar with the other side and don't watch sources you claim I've "lifted" "talking points" from, it simply stands to reason that I've come to similar conclusions by just having a wide variety of news sources.

When I don't think either Hillary nor Biden are communists, that literally makes your claim that "anything the slightest bit to the left of center is derided as communist" a straw man.

for someone who defends trumps BS by saying he wasn't serious, your failure to recognize obvious hyperbole is kind of telling.

Then I guess you've never heard of Poe's law.

No, I used porous specifically in the context of illegal immigration. You know, permeable beyond immigration law and control, like screening for illness.

no you didn't. your trying to back peddle cause your racism got called out. also most illegal immigrants are screened for disease

Look, you can either believe my intent or not. The principle of charity and intellectual honesty would predispose you to the former, but no has accused you of either.

i love watching back peddle to cover your ass. no its not.

Bare assertion, bereft of any substance.

clearly no you don't if your trying to blame the spike on illegal immigration.

Over stayed visas are not especially near the southern border, and illegal immigration still occurs.
You have yet to give any reasonable alternative explanation at all.

true. first thing in this post.

Yep, because over stayed visas are not generally along the southern border. Glad you could at least manage to understand that much.

republican leadership openly hostile to pandemic response, refusal to social distance, people actively trying to bring large groups of people together.

So, nothing that would explain the spike along the border.

could be just random chance.

Really? That's your whole argument? Random chance? But somehow especially along the border.
Here I'd hoped you would have something, anything, to back up your nonsense. Nope, I vastly overestimated you.

considering your whole argument was brown people have disease i don't really need to refute it.

No, that was your own racist presumption. Quit projecting. You're the one who made it about race. Don't believe me? Go check. I dare you to quote where I made it about race or ethnicity at all, aside from straightening out your racism.

i didn't you did you.

again it was you not me.

You're projecting.

mexico has responded the same as the us. claiming its doing worse is showing your biases.

I already cited an article saying otherwise. You denying facts is due to your bias.

look idf you really want to use i am to fucking stupid to understand the implications of my argument as a way to pretend your not racist thats on you. but that doesn't make me racist for seeing the clear racist implications of your argument.

I know the implications of my argument, and they're not the racist ones you keep inserting. That's on you. Just because you demand that everyone see everything in terms of race and ethnicity does not make anyone a racist but you. And as soon as you admit that, the sooner you can get to work overcoming it.

Now you're just lying (or didn't bother reading it yourself, and thus projecting), as neither article mentions Democrats.

its called an implied premise.

It's called imagining what is objectively not there. Some might call that delusion.

im not you are. please quit pretending me pointing out your reacism makes me racist

Then quit demanding its about race. That's literally what racists do, even when no has mentioned race at all. They're obsessed with it, as you seem to be.

of course not your not that stupid. you just leave it as an implied premise. your argument is based on that.

There you go imagining what's not there again. You seriously need to learn the difference between imply and infer. I never implied anything of the sort, but you inferred it nonetheless. That's on you.

i did as usual your lying. again your using the time honored right wing tactic of pretending your arguments don't mean what they do.

That's so cute. You claim I'm lying but have no quotes to support that claim. And you're (not "your") using the time honored left wing tactic of pretending you can read minds while projecting your own bs on others.

im not your projecting your racism on to me.

Yet you're the only one making it about race. You doth protest too much.

again no. me seeing the clearly racist based implications of your argument doesn't make me racist. just like me calling out a sexism doesn't make me sexist.

Again, your own inference, not my implications. When you insist that a spike in border illness is due to race, you are the racist. You're the only one drawing that conclusion. And if you call out sexism by insisting women can't be held accountable for their own decisions (implying that they lack agency), that would make you a sexist.

ok so here are your choices you admit your racism and we go from there or i treat you like the moron your claiming to be. seriously dude how childish are you. your entire defense against criticism is like that of a 6 year old. no im not you are.

The ultimatums of someone projecting racism on other are meaningless. When you instigate calling people names without any support, you invite the same in response. You're whining about your own lacking maturity. I'm just holding up a mirror.

funny how everything bad he says is a joke as far as your concerned. seriously your defense makes him look worse not better. a megalomaniac strongman who atrleast cares about the job is better than someone who treats as a joke. why are you so ok with him treating the highest office in the country like a joke. he is the president is it really to much to expect him to act with gravitas of the position

Again, you assuming it's all a joke is no less ignorant than assuming it all serious. Trump isn't a politician. And?

i have my own issues with ice world views he is generally right. in that in the global scheme hillary and cnn are right wing and AOC however is one of the few true leftists in this country.

And with that reality-defying nonsense, welcome to my iggy.

Nice to know you admit you lack the emotional maturity to be proven wrong

I've never seen you offer anything even vaguely resembling proof, evidence, or even just blather-headed support.

Buh-bye!