Ocean Colonization

Status
Not open for further replies.
J

Jaster Mereel

Hostis Humani Generis
Registered Senior Member
I wasn't sure which section to put this discussion in, since it covers several sciences, as well as sociology and history (I consider projecting into the future to be a form of historical study, since one cannot know the future without the past; sounds cliche but I think it's true anyway).

Basically, I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on how it would happen (let's assume that it's a motivation people have in the future; primarily for economic exploitation of the ocean floor), the types of technologies involved, the the ramifications for international politics and law (What happens to the Law of the Sea if Nation-States fund and have jurisdiction over these ventures?), etc. I kind of have a vague idea, but it's not highly formed and I was wondering if it would catch anyone's interest.

References to science fiction are ok as examples, but I mean for this question to provoke realistic responses (again assuming that people actually want to and are willing to invest significant time and effort in doing so, primarily for economic exploitation of the ocean floor). Shoot.
 
Extremely high initial costs and substantial upkeep costs with little payoff. Massive risks to inhabitants with little payoff. Only a good idea for exploration and scientific discoveries and not as an Atlantis-style mode of life.

Saltwater is rough on the technology needed to support human life below the sea. Oxygen extraction (or pumping from the surface) is a major weak-point and danger. The bends are a massive danger as citizens move back and forth (if they stayed below for long periods of time, the depressurization process at the surface could take months!). Growth on all surfaces would be a major hassle, keeping mechanical systems free and viewports clear. Most of the energy in the ocean can be found closer to the chaotic surface than at the bottom, but weather and major sea conditions make this a poor idea as well.

The best way to harbor the ocean is fish farming, which we should increase, while decreasing the amount of "fishing" that we do. It is pretty bizarre that we have this imbalance today. It would be as if we got most of our terrestrial meat from hunting rather than from raising and slaughtering. The former is vastly more costly than the latter.
 
Ever heard of the massive natural gas reserves at the ocean floor before? That was actually the industry I was initially thinking of as the kick-starter for this whole thing (as I said I wasn't considering whether people would want to, but rather taking it for granted and was wondering how the engineering would work, both the technical and the social), so it may not be attractive to the more eco-conscious among us.

Also, does every submarine crew have to go through depressurization when they've been deep under for weeks or months at a time? Are the bends a really common issue whenever a high endurance boomer comes up to resupply after 3 months at sea, the vast majority of which is spent at depths great enough to require depressurization, unless I am wrong... Am I? Is this usually a problem? I must admit my knowledge of seacraft and submarining is vastly inferior to even my knowledge of space travel (I must admit I've spent more of my reading and thinking of such subjects concentrating on space rather than learning about our own planet).
 
It would be much more economical to expand over the surface. There is at least one major ship you can buy a room or two in and use as your only home. (Never go ashore if you do not wish.)

John von Newman, many years ago, made a reasonably detailed and serious study of self-reproducing ocean going robots "farming the ocean" for metals. I.e. a form of artificial live that used solar energy and stored information to collect mainly aluminium and make a second copy of its self to do the same. etc. Man could in a few centuries, beging to harvest them for their metal content. He was mainly interested in the AI & AL aspects of the plan.
 
Billy T said:
It would be much more economical to expand over the surface. There is at least one major ship you can buy a room or two in and use as your only home. (Never go ashore if you do not wish.)
...
Click to expand...

I've heard about people retiring like that. It would be a dream come true for my husband.
 
swivel said:
Saltwater is rough on the technology needed to support human life below the sea.
Click to expand...
Water in general is the greatest enemy of our technology and saltwater is even worse. Look at the percentage of our artifacts whose primary purpose is to protect the rest of our artifacts from water! The service life of a modern building, I've been told, is about sixty years. It will be considerably less if broken windows are not replaced.
Jaster Mereel said:
Also, does every submarine crew have to go through depressurization when they've been deep under for weeks or months at a time?
Click to expand...
Submarines have the same cabin pressurization technology as airliners, they just pump the air in the opposite direction. On military deployment, for tactical reasons, a submarine may have to dive and/or surface as fast as its engines can make it move, so the crew has to be able to endure that.
Are the bends a really common issue whenever a high endurance boomer comes up to resupply after 3 months at sea, the vast majority of which is spent at depths great enough to require depressurization, unless I am wrong... Am I? Is this usually a problem?
Click to expand...
What I wonder is whether there's a limit to the pressure a human body can withstand, regardless of how gently it's allowed to adjust. Will all of our tissues maintain their integrity? Will all of our systems keep functioning properly?

If both the air in our lungs and the blood in our capillaries become massively denser, will the osmosis of oxygen and carbon dioxide take place at the correct level?
 
Orleander said:
I've heard about people retiring like that. It would be a dream come true for my husband.
Click to expand...
Un-embalmed burial at sea is very ecological too.

I sort of like the idea of being good shark food, instead of poising some hungry worms* with formaldehyde. When I am 30 minutes dead, just cut my juggler vein and toss me overboard.

If enough people think as I do, there may be a demand for a terminal patient hospice ship. Anyone want to invest in my just founded TPHS company?
The company slogan is: "Life came from the sea. - Give something back."

----------------
*and eventually the aquifers.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fraggle Rocker said:
... If both the air in our lungs and the blood in our capillaries become massively denser, will the osmosis of oxygen and carbon dioxide take place at the correct level?
Click to expand...
You could replace the N2 with He and go a lot deeper with no increase in blood density I am almost sure. It would depend on the relative solubility of course, but I am betting He being an inert closed outer shell atom does not have much binding to the water like CO2 does. Probably He just “sneaks in between" the bigger molecules.

A mix of He with a tiny percent (but still plenty of O2 due to pressure) only ought to let you go quite deep. I suspect that the limit is really set by the CO2 you are making (and remaining in high concentration in your blood due to the pressure) and its effect on Ph.* Also the heart may have a problem if blood becomes more viscous, which I bet it does as CO2 & H2O form larger quasi bond molecules. They might even block the smallest capillaries - local gang-green.

Rats can breath under water, but the work done pumping the water in and out of their lungs exhausts them in 10 or 15 minutes, as I recall.** Perhaps humans equipped with mechanical ventilators to avoid exhaustion could live by breathing oxygen saturated water, but constantly feeling like you are drowning does not seem very attractive. (CIA may have some information on this.)

But this is all just speculation. Surely someone can search and find the facts.
--------------
*Probably acidic as carbonic acid or some such thing.

**I doubt if the PETA people approve of testing this now.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jaster Mereel said:
Ever heard of the massive natural gas reserves at the ocean floor before? That was actually the industry I was initially thinking of as the kick-starter for this whole thing (as I said I wasn't considering whether people would want to, but rather taking it for granted and was wondering how the engineering would work, both the technical and the social), so it may not be attractive to the more eco-conscious among us.

Also, does every submarine crew have to go through depressurization when they've been deep under for weeks or months at a time? Are the bends a really common issue whenever a high endurance boomer comes up to resupply after 3 months at sea, the vast majority of which is spent at depths great enough to require depressurization, unless I am wrong... Am I? Is this usually a problem? I must admit my knowledge of seacraft and submarining is vastly inferior to even my knowledge of space travel (I must admit I've spent more of my reading and thinking of such subjects concentrating on space rather than learning about our own planet).
Click to expand...

I believe "the bends" is not an issue for most submarines, for the simple reason that the interior is maintained at one atm. The hull has to resist the pressure, so most subs (boomers for example) do not go terribly deep, certainly not to the deep ocean floor. Some deep sea manned research vehicles do have "bends" related issues, helium is used as already mentioned.

My 2 cents on the original question posed, as to when the ocean (meaning the ocean floor) will be colonized. Never. It will be far easier to access deep sea natural resources by remotely piloted vehicles and robots. There will be very little incentive for humans to go there.
 
I think it'd be correct to say that the technologies involved would make it easier to genetically engineer mere-people then to try to put thousands of average joes in an engineered bubble thousands of feet underwater.

I'm not REALLY suggesting we make mere-people, just trying to make a point here. :D
 
1. Put floating solar power plant somewhere on the ocean.
2. Put wires through water
3. Grow CaCO3 on wires with electricity from solar.
4. Making island out of produced CaCO3
5. Repeat.
 
Roman said:
It seems like it would be faster to just dump all of America's trash in the ocean and build on that.
Click to expand...
The largest trash dump on earth--in fact it's actually the largest human construction in all history, which is rather humbling--is the Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island. It's been collecting New York City's trash for about half a century and is a two-mile square 200 feet tall. That gives it a volume of about thirty billion cubic feet, equivalent to a cube about half a mile on a side. At that rate we're not going to get a foundation very fast.:)
 
Could just mash the trillions of empty plastic soda bottles together and make a gigantic island-sized raft that, give it's size and extreme buoyancy, might even withstand harsh storms with ease.

The only thing better then an island is a mobile island! Might even make a little dough off the idea by marketing it as a cruise ship. Think about it, a cruise ship large enough to have it's own airstrip on deck, yet has a primary structure made entierly out of recycled plastic.

Hell, I wonder if anyone's made even a reasonably sized boat with such a method...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top