News from Gaza Part 2

[aaa]

Israel kicked out the English by using terrorism on them. You live by the sword you die by the sword.

some of the Jewish settlement used terrorism, such as the Lehi organization, but most of them tried to negotiate, something which the arabs at that time didn't take even to consider.

The reason the Palestinians are using rocks, rockets, and suicide bombs is because that is all they have for weapons.

humm, no. actually, they now have enough weapons to satisfy a small army, including light weapons, MGs, anti-tank missiles, grenades, etc. nothing compared to the Israeli side, yes, but still the image of the small Palestinian boy throwing a rock at an Israeli tank has passed.

They have a crummy standard of living compared to the Israelis and in large part because of the Israelis taking all the choice growing land and most of the potable water supplies in the area. It would be like if China took over America and moved all the Americans to the Mojave Desert, Utah, and Wyoming and said 'Why don't you be content and do something constructive with your freedom?' I think you know many Americans would not stand for that anymore than the Palestinians do.
Any workable plan has to include sharing water supplies and good growing land with the Palestinians. You have to give them something worth behaving for.

the conflict is much more complicated than you think. it wont be settled by that alone. what about east Jerusalem? the Right of Return and such Palestinian demands? as long as these terms are not fulfilled, Hamas will just keep its Jihad against Israel.

 

[desi]

some of the Jewish settlement used terrorism, such as the Lehi organization, but most of them tried to negotiate, something which the arabs at that time didn't take even to consider.

Most arabs aren't terrorists either these days but the US has several occupations going on in the name of fighting terrorism just the same.

humm, no. actually, they now have enough weapons to satisfy a small army, including light weapons, MGs, anti-tank missiles, grenades, etc. nothing compared to the Israeli side, yes, but still the image of the small Palestinian boy throwing a rock at an Israeli tank has passed.

They are getting slaughtered by the IDF. They might as well be using rocks.

the conflict is much more complicated than you think. it wont be settled by that alone. what about east Jerusalem? the Right of Return and such Palestinian demands? as long as these terms are not fulfilled, Hamas will just keep its Jihad against Israel.

Those things don't matter much compared to going to bed hungry and waking up thirsty. You are focusing on talking points made by Hamas leaders. If Israel unilaterally makes life better for the average Palestinians, Hamas will become persona non grata overnight.

 

[pjdude1219]

Israel kicked out the English by using terrorism on them.

The british not the english the british. It was all of the UK not just england.

 

[pjdude1219]

Hi pjdude1219,






Strange. Your posts seem rather angry to me for someone who has no connection to this conflict. I would like to work towards a "realistic" understanding of the origin of all your…uhm….“passion” in order to "put my mind at ease". To that end, which of a two state or a single binational state solution do you believe is more realistic?

Of course I am angry people are needlessly dying. Its pointless. I think single binational solution is more realistic but a two state solution would be better.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

so you thinking instead of the god.....maybe u r the god him self without i know ....!!!!

irony !!

When you have a Mad Dog, the time comes when you have to put it down, Hamas is a Mad Dog and the Time has come to put it down, out of the Palestinian's Misery.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Israel Rejects Cease Fire? How about Hamas?

Why is it the head lines read that Israel rejects cease fire, when all that has to happen is for Hamas to stop shooting rocket and the assault will end.

But I don't mean just for now, Hamas has to give up a lost war, and stop shooting completely, just as the Germans and Japanese had to when defeated in WWII.

A Cease Fire now will accomplish nothing unless the Palestinians move to peace and reconstruction of their shattered world.

But the Palestinians want to drive this to the bitter end, so I say end it now, enforce the loss of the war on them until they drink the absolute bitterest dregs of the cup of defeat, that seem to be the only way to make them understand that Peace is always better than war.

For 60 years the Palestinians have called down the Thunder so now let them Reap the Whirlwind, time and again they have deliberately broken cease fires and sent murder teams, suicide bombers, rockets, and mortar shell into Israel for no other reason than to kill.

The Palestinians rejected a Easy Peace, so now let them suffer a hard defeat.

So let the Tragedy play out, it will be the only way to end the violence.

 

[desi]

When you have a Mad Dog, the time comes when you have to put it down, Hamas is a Mad Dog and the Time has come to put it down, out of the Palestinian's Misery.

The Palestinian's voted them as their leaders. Do you really think making martyrs of Hamas in that part of the world will stop the conflict?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

The Palestinian's voted them as their leaders. Do you really think making martyrs of Hamas in that part of the world will stop the conflict?

No, finishing the war to the bitter end will.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Final human victims results, since savage attacks ...... "until now"

397 martyrs
2000 WOUNDED

397 fools

2000 lucky fools

 

[Mr.Spock]

isnt martyrs a good thing? :shrug:

 

[Buffalo Roam]

So retaliation is just, even when it is so grossly disproportionate? For example, if I shoot at you with a water gun, you would be justified in retaliating with a 1000 kilogram bomb? Okay then.

They aren't shooting at Israel with a water gun, they are sending explosives carried by Children as suicide bombers, they are launching rocket carrying high explosive warheads, they are shelling Israeli towns with mortars rounds full of explosives, they kidnapp Israelis and Murder Them, they Murder their own just for talking to a Israeli.

They have been doing this for 60 years, in pursuit of a war that was lost in 1948.

How much better off would they be today if all the money they had spent on weapons would have been put into Infrastructure and Industry?

Instead they pursued a war, and that is now what they have received, WAR, in all it's blood, death, horror, and destruction, they called this down on their heads by perusing it for 60 years.

Time the War is ended, and the only way to do that is to force complete and utter defeat on the Palestinians.

That is the only way that Gaza and the Palestinians will ever be able to build a Peaceful State.

The lessons of WWII have been forgotten, War is ended when the other side accept defeat, willingly or by force, that is when Peace can take hold and the rebuilding can begin.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

isnt martyrs a good thing? :shrug:

Yes, 72 virgins who look like Arafat.

 

[Z7575]

When you have a Mad Dog, the time comes when you have to put it down, Hamas is a Mad Dog and the Time has come to put it down, out of the Palestinian's Misery.

Who, where.........i don't see any one except u here ???
:shrug:

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Who, where.........i don't see any one except u here ???
:shrug:

The Mad Dog never see's, it is just a Mad Dog.

 

[iceaura]

as long as these terms are not fulfilled, Hamas will just keep its Jihad against Israel.

Let's have Israel keep its side of a ceasefire agreement or treaty, for long enough that people can see it is keeping it, past the comparatively trivial provocations that afflict all treaties and agreements and such,

for the first time ever,

and see what happens.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Let's have Israel keep its side of a ceasefire agreement or treaty, for long enough that people can see it is keeping it, past the comparatively trivial provocations that afflict all treaties and agreements and such,

for the first time ever,

and see what happens.

Israel has many times.

 

[iceaura]

Israel has many times.

Name one.

 

[Mr.Spock]

Never ever dare..

I'd suggest you read back into your own posting history before attempting to deny anything.



The guys you are touting as heros were actually terrorists. They targeted the UN (their assassination of the UN mediator, Folke Bernadotte) as well as British personnel, including a British Lord. They also attacked and murdered Palestinian Arabs. There is a reason why they disbanded immediately upon Israel's passing of their anti-terrorist laws and why the newly formed Israeli Government actually banned their organisation. I'll give you a hint, it was not because they were a peace loving group. It is because they were terrorists and would be deemed as such if they carried out similar attacks today. So your comments about their being some kind of heros who even wrote a song about their killings, is, in this light, stupidly ironic. People who send bombs by mail are terrorists, and the Lehi took part in that kind of action as well as assassinations and bombing infrastructure. And you refer to them as "activists" and then have the nerve to deny you even made the comment?

You know how they say your freedom fighters are someone else's terrorists? Funny that huh?

As for their Nazi connection. They did try to help the Nazi.. they wanted to work with the Nazi's to get the British out of Palestine while they helped the Nazi's in expelling the Jews from Europe... In short, they wanted to work with the Nazi's in removing and defeating the British in the Middle East and wanted to help the Nazi's win the war against the UK to accomplish that goal, and in return, they would help the Nazi's by removing the Jews.. so they basically wanted the Nazi's to help them establish a Jewish State while they helped the Nazi's beat the British. It is kind of common knowledge Spock.



The letter can be found here.

So yeah.. never dare Spock. And never deny and then dare. It could come back and bite you on your backside.

i suggest you read back as well, i never said they were heroes because they wrote songs which is what i dared PJ to do, but they were heroes never the less who scarified their life for others. their position unlike the hagana was an active fight against the british who denied access to jewish survivors of the holocaust, the same british who wanted to move the survivors to russia and them siberia. I commented before on that dubious document, that other then wiki there is no real authentication behind it. there are some things they did which as i said i do not fully agree with, but in the context of that conversation to affiliate them with treason by connections with the NAZIS goes against everything they stood for, and from that point of view, the people that made out the lehi were heroes who did everything to save the lives of their fellow brothers.

i know its sounds romantic to accuse them of that 60+ years later but it is simply isnt true. i know people from the lehi, irgun and even hagana. you cant convince me with that BS.

when you try to bite someone, make sure you have teeth to do it.

and ZAK, do me a favor and save me your bickering. you are not that clever.

 

[sly1]

Why is it the head lines read that Israel rejects cease fire, when all that has to happen is for Hamas to stop shooting rocket and the assault will end.

But I don't mean just for now, Hamas has to give up a lost war, and stop shooting completely, just as the Germans and Japanese had to when defeated in WWII.

A Cease Fire now will accomplish nothing unless the Palestinians move to peace and reconstruction of their shattered world.

But the Palestinians want to drive this to the bitter end, so I say end it now, enforce the loss of the war on them until they drink the absolute bitterest dregs of the cup of defeat, that seem to be the only way to make them understand that Peace is always better than war.

For 60 years the Palestinians have called down the Thunder so now let them Reap the Whirlwind, time and again they have deliberately broken cease fires and sent murder teams, suicide bombers, rockets, and mortar shell into Israel for no other reason than to kill.

The Palestinians rejected a Easy Peace, so now let them suffer a hard defeat.

So let the Tragedy play out, it will be the only way to end the violence.

I agree! let it not stop untill the world is but a circular crater of charred destruction. That.....is peace.

 

[Bells]

They aren't shooting at Israel with a water gun,

The term 'analogy' escapes you, doesn't it?

they are sending explosives carried by Children as suicide bombers, they are launching rocket carrying high explosive warheads, they are shelling Israeli towns with mortars rounds full of explosives, they kidnapp Israelis and Murder Them, they Murder their own just for talking to a Israeli.

And Israel has been encroaching on the little land they have left, building walls to keep them out of their own lands, refusing them the right to use roads, forcing them to go through checkpoints on a daily basis, taking their water and farms, invading them constantly, killing and shooting their children (even when they are playing or walking home from school). Tell me, if someone came and took all you owned, denied you the right to your basic human rights, killed members of your family, denied you the right to move freely, you'd nod and say "okay"? Ya right. Why do you think they shell Israeli towns Buffalo? Because they're bored? Or because they have been denied and refused their basic human rights and forced to live in refugee camps while the Israeli's exercise their right of return right onto Palestinian lands? Is it possibly because the Israeli's control the Palestinian borders, so much so that a family wanting to visit his family in the next town has to get Israeli permission and sit for hours on end at checkpoints, where soldiers continuously beat and harass civilians.

And you somehow think that the deaths of 4 Israeli's from those rockets somehow justifies the deaths of 390 people and 1900 injuries, many of whom are women and children? And you have the gall to call the victims of Israel's attacks, even the women and children, fools? You call a child killed by an Israeli soldier a fool? I wonder, if the 390 dead and the 1900 injured were Israeli's, whether you'd be calling them fools or victims. There are no words to even describe what I think of you at the moment.

They have been doing this for 60 years, in pursuit of a war that was lost in 1948.

How much better off would they be today if all the money they had spent on weapons would have been put into Infrastructure and Industry?

Are you kidding me?

How can they build infrastructure or industry when they are being constantly forced off their lands, where what little land they have left is being encroached upon by the Israeli's and taken from them? Not to mention the Israeli theft of their water and farm land. What Industry can people in refugee ghetto's have?

They pursued what you would have in their place. You always harp on about your right to arms to defend yourself against tyranny. Well guess what, Buffalo, the Palestinians are defending their right against tyranny and have been doing so for 60 years.

You carry on as if Israel has been innocent for the whole of the 60 years. Israel's actions for the past 60 years have been acts of war.

Time the War is ended, and the only way to do that is to force complete and utter defeat on the Palestinians.

That is the only way that Gaza and the Palestinians will ever be able to build a Peaceful State.

The lessons of WWII have been forgotten, War is ended when the other side accept defeat, willingly or by force, that is when Peace can take hold and the rebuilding can begin.

So to bring peace upon them is to kill them, kill the innocent women and children. Right? That's what you're saying, isn't it? So even as the Israeli's come and take more of their land, we need to expect them to simply lie down and take it.. move off gently and act peacefully. Right? You'd do that if it was done to you? Someone comes to your door and tells you that you have 30 minutes to pack your belongings and leave so that another family can take over your house and land, you'd hand over the keys, bend over and kiss their arse and simply let them have it.. peacefully? Right. Because that is what you expect the Palestinians to do.

The Palestinians will lose the war, not because they are wrong. But because they are outgunned by a State that has the full backing of the US. But here's the thing, the Palestinian civilians will win the moral war against the Israeli's and the hatred from the generations that are growing up will be even worse.