Muskovite Birds of a Feather: Notes on the Great Twitterpation

On the subject of Musk, it seems that some members of the GOP are suggesting President Musk replace Johnson as the Speaker of the House. There's no legal requirement for the Speaker to be a member of the House, so if Musk wants the job he could almost certainly get it (a little word in co-President Trump's ear here, a threat of putting up money to oust anyone in the GOP who doesn't support him there etc).
An article on MSNBC's webtsite (https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc...e-speaker-republicans-debt-ceiling-rcna184884) suggests that if this is what the GOP want then the Dems should just sit back and let it happen, and be sure to let the GOP own the ensuing chaos. I'm not sure how serious the idea is, though. Would Musk even want the job, and all the minutiae that goes with it? Would there be enough support even in the House GOP membership? I doubt it.
If Musk is like his S African mate Peter Thiel, he will hold democratic process in contempt, in which case he won’t want to become part of the system he would like to destroy. He’d also be a disaster as Speaker, the essence of which is cajoling and persuading people. He’d just antagonise everybody.

I expect Musk and Trump to fall out before long. I’ll be surprised if he’s still in this advisory job a year from now.
 
I was wondering about companies competing for NASA contracts when Elon is the person checking value for government money, so to speak.
Same person leading SpaceX and the Department of Government Efficiency (Doge), seems, sorry about this, dodgy to me?
 
I was wondering about companies competing for NASA contracts when Elon is the person checking value for government money, so to speak.
Same person leading SpaceX and the Department of Government Efficiency (Doge), seems, sorry about this, dodgy to me?
Yup, Peter Thiel's Palantir already has "classified" contracts with the Pentagon and I read in yesterday's FT the "Paypal Mafia" are looking to displace the traditional Defence suppliers (Lockheed, Raytheon et al) as prime contractors, on the basis of drone technology, AI and all that shit.

So we face the prospect of the future military capability of the USA being in the hands of people who not only have overt aspirations to political power but actually despise democracy. And they also have extensive surveillance capability on the habits and beliefs of the populace too. Good plan, eh?
 
If Musk is like his S African mate Peter Thiel, he will hold democratic process in contempt, in which case he won’t want to become part of the system he would like to destroy. He’d also be a disaster as Speaker, the essence of which is cajoling and persuading people. He’d just antagonise everybody.

I expect Musk and Trump to fall out before long. I’ll be surprised if he’s still in this advisory job a year from now.
I had actually forgotten about Thiel's own South African history. Of course, I think it's fair to say that Musk has a much deeper "investment" in the Afrikaner mindset, given the first couple of decades of his life.

The fact that Musk has never addressed any of this has always been a huge red flag. And as a person of around the same age as Musk, it's pretty freakin' mind-blowing, to be honest. In the late 80s/early 90s, Apartheid was a prominent topic amongst high school and college kids with any sort of awareness: if you simply remained, uh, neutral--as did Musk, to all indications--then you were a pretty suspect character.

Liekwise, mainstream media in the US has long ignored this aspect of Musk's history, and this facet of his character.
 
I had actually forgotten about Thiel's own South African history. Of course, I think it's fair to say that Musk has a much deeper "investment" in the Afrikaner mindset, given the first couple of decades of his life.

The fact that Musk has never addressed any of this has always been a huge red flag. And as a person of around the same age as Musk, it's pretty freakin' mind-blowing, to be honest. In the late 80s/early 90s, Apartheid was a prominent topic amongst high school and college kids with any sort of awareness: if you simply remained, uh, neutral--as did Musk, to all indications--then you were a pretty suspect character.

Liekwise, mainstream media in the US has long ignored this aspect of Musk's history, and this facet of his character.
I have no idea whether either Musk or Thiel is a white supremacist. But they are mates from a long way back and will no doubt scratch one another's backs. Actually Thiel was born in Germany and lived in the US before going to S Africa, so I was wrong to say he was actally S African. He just did some of his growing up there.

But Thiel is on record as saying he has little time for democracy. He also has built himself a bunker in New Zealand, in case it all goes wrong in the USA.
 
I have no idea whether either Musk or Thiel is a white supremacist. But they are mates from a long way back and will no doubt scratch one another's backs. Actually Thiel was born in Germany and lived in the US before going to S Africa, so I was wrong to say he was actally S African. He just did some of his growing up there.

But Thiel is on record as saying he has little time for democracy. He also has built himself a bunker in New Zealand, in case it all goes wrong in the USA.
Musk has said and endorsed a lot of racist stuff in the past, but I think his brand has always been more a form of elitism which prioritizes wealth and ability over everything else. He's long been an advocate of longtermism, a rather extreme sort of consequentialist ethics and philosophy which is entirely dependent upon it's adherents having a whole lotta blind spots. IOW it's all well and good when you've literally got a bunker you can retreat to when the shit hits the fan!

I mentioned that generational aspect previously because Musk has always reminded me of one of those guys who reads, say, Arthur C Clarke's Childhood's End, and somehow misses the point entirely. Take any cultural reference point or touchstone, and Musk's takeaway is guaranteed to be a head scratcher. That said, Musk's takeaways do make a sort of sense in consideration of his upbringing.

You don't fault a person for reading Plato's Republic and thinking, "Well, that kinda makes sense": it's an intellectual exercise, and there's a part in all of us, or most of us, that can appreciate the appeal of fascism and totalitarianism when we're at the top. But when you go about implementing those principles in life, you've got a seriously dangerous individual.
 
Seattle:
Are you a socialist?
You're already way off-topic.

Would it matter to you if I told you that I am a socialist? (Note, because you seem to have difficulty with nuance, that I am not telling you that I am a socialist, at this time.)

Perhaps you might like to familiarise yourself with the concepts of Social democracy, which strike me as sensible in many ways that socialism might not be.

I'm guessing that, as a right-wing American, you have no idea what the word "socialism" actually means. Instead, you have absorbed a right-wing caricature version of what it is.

Anyway, none of this has anything at all to do with Elon Musk's policies, which you are yet to summarise for me.
 
Seattle:

You're already way off-topic.

Would it matter to you if I told you that I am a socialist? (Note, because you seem to have difficulty with nuance, that I am not telling you that I am a socialist, at this time.)

Perhaps you might like to familiarise yourself with the concepts of Social democracy, which strike me as sensible in many ways that socialism might not be.

I'm guessing that, as a right-wing American, you have no idea what the word "socialism" actually means. Instead, you have absorbed a right-wing caricature version of what it is.

Anyway, none of this has anything at all to do with Elon Musk's policies, which you are yet to summarise for me.
I have trouble with nuance? Haha...that's a good one.

You should have realized by now that underestimating people is a fool's game.
 
Seattle:

Now you're just blathering on for the sake of thinking you've had the last word.

Maybe, next time, try talking about the thread topic.
 
Seattle:

Now you're just blathering on for the sake of thinking you've had the last word.

Maybe, next time, try talking about the thread topic.
I don't think you know how to have a discussion, do you? It's not done with snark and a demand.
 
I don't think you know how to have a discussion, do you? It's not done with snark and a demand.
You mean, like asking you what Elon Musk's policies are, after you strode in to defend Musk after he revealed himself to have neo-Nazi sympathies?

It turned out that you didn't know what Musk's policies are (if he has any), but instead of admitting that you decided to whine and complain and make excuses about why you couldn't answer, while attempting to distract. Then you tried to insult me, pathetically.

And now, here we are, and you find yourself stuck in an awkward position but you can't let it go, because to do so would involve you losing face, or something like that, in your own mind.

Give it a rest, Seattle. If you think you have all the economic answers that Trump and Musk need, why don't you tell them?
 
You mean, like asking you what Elon Musk's policies are, after you strode in to defend Musk after he revealed himself to have neo-Nazi sympathies?

It turned out that you didn't know what Musk's policies are (if he has any), but instead of admitting that you decided to whine and complain and make excuses about why you couldn't answer, while attempting to distract. Then you tried to insult me, pathetically.

And now, here we are, and you find yourself stuck in an awkward position but you can't let it go, because to do so would involve you losing face, or something like that, in your own mind.

Give it a rest, Seattle. If you think you have all the economic answers that Trump and Musk need, why don't you tell them?
Am I, as you call Tiassa, a pathetic little man? That's a strange tact for running a discussion forum. Not that you are good at running a discussion forum.
 
Am I, as you call Tiassa, a pathetic little man? That's a strange tact for running a discussion forum. Not that you are good at running a discussion forum.
Another turn for the bizarre, with another babyish insult. But you can't stop yourself, can you?

*yawn*
 
Thanks for amplifying my point once again, Seattle. Will you stop now?

James, just because the moment makes the point so clearly: Y'know, back when we were disputing things like good faith, intellectual dishonesty, and basic standards of rational discourse, this is what you were protecting. One of the reasons people behave this way is because they have no reason not to.

So, when I talked about what we cultivated by those standards, yes, our neighbor's behavior is an example.

This is what you wanted.
 
James, just because the moment makes the point so clearly: Y'know, back when we were disputing things like good faith, intellectual dishonesty, and basic standards of rational discourse, this is what you were protecting. One of the reasons people behave this way is because they have no reason not to.

So, when I talked about what we cultivated by those standards, yes, our neighbor's behavior is an example.

This is what you wanted.
Yes, you are so fully of "good faith" and "intellectual honesty"...
 
What a Jury Said

reuters-20250120-elonmusk-nazisalute-detail-bw.png

A civil trial in California has found that Elon Musk made materially false or misleading statements during his acquisition of Twitter; per CNBC↱:

A jury in California found that Elon Musk defrauded Twitter shareholders during the runup to his $44 billion acquisition of the social media company, according to a verdict issued on Friday.

Total damages could reach up to $2.6 billion, attorneys for the plaintiffs said.

The class action lawsuit, Pampena v. Musk, was originally filed in October 2022, after Musk completed his purchase of Twitter for $54.20 per share ....

.... After Musk bid to buy Twitter in April 2022, his sentiment towards the deal quickly soured as he cast doubt on the company's claimed level of bots, spam and fake accounts on its platform. Musk wrote in a tweet the following month that his acquisition was "temporarily on hold" until Twitter's CEO could prove its inauthentic account levels were around the 5% reported in the company's SEC filings.

Musk's tweets and additional comments sent shares of Twitter sliding by almost 10% in a single session. The jury deliberated for four days and unanimously found that Musk's tweets on May 13 and May 17 were materially false or misleading.

The underlying claim is that his misleading statements were part of a scheme to lower the price for the social media company. The damage estimate is based on estimation of how Musk's statements and behavior affected share price.

And while CNBC reports, "Musk's attorneys argued their client's remarks were based on well-founded concerns", it might have been a hard sell compared to Musk himself; earlier this month, BBC↱ reported:

Musk said on Wednesday that posts he wrote after he had struck a deal to buy the platform were "extremely literal" and not intended to try to reduce the price he would have to pay.

"I was simply speaking my mind," he said when asked whether he had considered the impact of his posts, including one in which he declared his takeover plans had been put on hold.

"People tend to read too much into things that I do," the technology tycoon said.

At other points in the trial, Musk said repeatedly that his tweets represented what was in his head at any given time.

"What I think privately is what I say publicly, there's no difference."

The dispute marks the first lawsuit over Musk's 2022 Twitter purchase to make it to trial, but his social media habit has landed him in legal trouble before.

In earlier fights, he has successfully beaten back claims that he misled Tesla investors and committed defamation via his social media posts ....

.... Investors are seeking unspecified monetary damages from Musk, which they say they are owed given they acted on his allegedly misleading statements, including when he claimed he was "terminating" the deal in July.

"If this was a trial on whether I've made stupid tweets, I'd say I'm guilty," Musk said at one point.

When Musk was asked if he at one point told Twitter's board he would "hunt them down for the rest of time", he did not deny doing so.

"I was pretty upset with the Twitter board because I thought they had engaged in fraud," Musk said.

It is important to observe, here, compared to the idea that what he thinks is what he says and there is no difference, that may be, but it says nothing vis à vis Musk's obligations. There are certain times when people are expected to behave responsibly according to rules and circumstances; breaking the rules because he can't help himself is not a viable defense unless Elon Musk intends an actual noncompetency assertion.

This is also a glimpse into Musk's idea of free speech, which is a manner of cacophony in which words have no stable, or even common, meaning¹, and if there is a moral of the story or even merely a point to observe, this is what it gets him.

Do we need a review on that? Think of it like ritual obligations, if you must: In matters of law and contract, words matter. That Musk doesn't know that, or can't figure out what it means, or simply can't help himself, neither changes the rules nor excuses the behavior.
____________________

Notes:

¹ The free speech of cacophony is a nihilistic result of trying to protect favored speech against scrutiny or criticism, and not an unfamiliar consideration: "This is the free speech of cacophony, in which all speech is equal for having been uttered. In such an environment, affirmable facts are no better—and often considered grievously worse—than a comedian's make-believe" (April, 2025↗); "And that's thing about cacophony: In an environment where all speech is equal for having been uttered, we might observe who needs that pretense of credibility, especially compared to truth or fact, whose credibility is diminished by the juxtaposition" (August, 2025↗); on certain disruptive behavior, " It's what people do when reality isn't supporting their argument. The jagged discontinuity makes it harder for anyone to follow and understand the discussion … It's one of the ways in which the free speech of cacophony actually disrupts communication" (November, 2024↗); on J.D. Vance, "it's troll-grade excrement, the kind of behavior that can only be validated by omission, and can only be protected by free speech of cacophony" (September, 2024↗, see also May, 2025↗); on discourse, "if any passing scholar or evangelist ever thought maybe they wanted to dance, we can understand why they would not want to do it in a room like ours, which prefers cacophony over communication" (July, 2023↗, cf. January, 2022↗).

On Elon Musk & Twitter/X: "twitspeech is like so many other political issues out there, in which we are not without a real issue to consider, but the free speech of cacophony precludes such discussion in favor of noise. To a certain degree, that's actually how Musk gave himself the bird in the first place" (March, 2023↑); "Musk requires a basic cacophony from which he might filter what he favors and disdains. The full explanation of what Musk is doing ranges into the ridiculous" (November, 2023↑); "then there is the reality of what cacophony means in any particular setting, or to any particular purpose", "easily overwhelmed by the unbridled free speech of cacophony", "if we're all standing around in a large public square and talking to each other, sure, the cacophony is nearly obligate. But within functional pathways, it easily disrupts flow" (December, 2022↑); and of experiential analogy, "It is not so much that the free speech of cacophony somehow overlooks the fact of imposed dysfunction, but, rather, the whole principle seems intended to encourage such outcomes. And a lesson easily observed, over and over and over again, is that the free speech of cacophony is dysfunctional" (November, 2022↑); "We've been through a bunch of this, before, and the free speech of cacophony does not bring stimulating, healthy discourse to a community; it did not cultivate growth" (November, 2022↑).

「And it's one thing to observe the difference between a private forum and societal laws and practices, but as a matter of principle, we can observe that the free speech of cacophony is dysfunctional both in concept and application: The free speech of cacophony shepherds fraud and deceit, equivocates to pretend there is no difference. If I suggest "free speech" ought not mean your words have no value, the free speech of cacophony is the reply; in such an environment, scientifically valid data has no greater value than calculated falsehood or popular superstition, and what is true or false is held in basic parity. It is a wilful parity between what is true and what is not true.

And there never really has been any justification for it; the free speech of cacophony is and always has been a refuge of scoundrels.」
(December, 2022↑)​

Hays, Kali. "Musk tells jury 'people read too much' into his posts". BBC News. 4 March 2026. BBC.com. 21 March 2026. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7433dz4ykwo

Kolodny, Lora. "Elon Musk misled Twitter investors ahead of $44 billion acquisition, jury says". CNBC. 20 March 2026. CNBC.com. 21 March 2026. https://www.cnbc.com/2026/03/20/elo...-liable-for-misleading-twitter-investors.html
 
He's also being sued over Grok's facilitation of child pornography. A number of teens are suing that Grok generated sexually explicit photos of them. Grok generated, and Twitter presumably facilitated the spreading of, child pornography. It apparently wasn't protected against, and Grok had a "spicy" mode that could produce, let's say, NSFW images. So the lack of foresight that, with no controls in place, it could lead to such as being sued for, doesn't speak well of the supposedly big-brain-trillionaire.
Maybe they advocates think it a fair price for free speech, I guess? :rolleyes:
 
Maybe they advocates think it a fair price for free speech, I guess? :rolleyes:

One of the harder things to explain, a tragic joke that isn't funny, has to do with how much of the online rightism shaping our twenty-first century is connected to names turning up in the Epstein scandal, and the idea that even as the techbros coalesced and did their thing, Elon pretty much had to beg his way in, and was generally disdained.
 
Back
Top