Dealing with the mind?
For sure.
Meditation
- Thread starter Bowser
- Start date
For sure.
I'm glad that is working out for you. Have you ever just shut it down? For no better reason than just being?
Sometimes meditation is just an exercise in self delusion.
The mind. Just be alone with yourself. There's always time to chase a thought.
Approaching existence as if one is the centre is always delusion.
Perhaps I was discussing this detail with spidergoat earlier. The mind (our capacity to like or dislike things, which plays a great role in our desire), much like the body, is part of our existence, at least as far as the here and now is concerned. Its like the clothes we wear .... tomorrow we may wear something different, but as far as the present goes, this is what we have got on now.
If our mind is out of control, then there may be a tangiable benefit in shutting down the mind (and hence shutting down desire), but this is only a temporary measure. The mind demands attention. That type of meditation that focuses on shutting down the mind is but a stepping stone to that type of meditation that engages it like a friend.
In otherwords, the ultimate solution for the raging mind is to find its resting place. Pulling out the plug is an artificial imposition.
I only have the one body. Where else would the center be?
I never advocated that because using the mind to control the mind only reinforces the mind.
You didn't have a child's body? You don't expect to have an old man's body?
Are your mind's desires constant throughout this transmigration of inumerable bodies?
If you want to say you are the centre of your body (or mind), first you have to be specific about which one you are talking about.
"There is no work possible to this end. That's the basic conundrum of zen. Purifying the mind can only be an action of the mind, and is thus impure."
If the mind (and hence, desire) is constitutionally impure, how do you propose to work with it except through containment?
Deception. We tell you to find your hat even though you are already wearing it.
Deception is but one possible tool of containment.
If we were completely isolated, communication would not be possible. If we were completely intra-connected, we wouldn't have recourse to a private world.
And with which do you identify, the outer or inner world?
You don't have to contain something that doesn't exist. The problem is making people perceive that.
I should say that there are different kinds of meditation. The Zen kind may not concern you. People also meditate as a form of mental relaxation or prayer. I don't care about that.
Its kind of a mix of both, part and whole, difference and oneness. To be properly balanced one has to not only recognize ones existence as a part, but also whole that they are part of. Increased understanding of either the part or whole also empowers understanding of the other.
Earlier I gave the analogy of the tree and its leaves and roots in regards to watering. A leaf that makes the demands of the root is unbalanced. The more the leaf understands either its position as a leaf or the nature of the tree, the less likely it is to be beseeched by the desire to receive water like the root.
In otherwords, the more properly we understand ourselves as part in a whole, the more the mind becomes a friend.
Is there a role you play as a part within the whole?
So now the mind (the engine room of desire) has just gone from impure to non-existent ....
Given the counter-intuitive nature of your proposal, the difficulty is understandable.
Destroying the mind as a category is probably the most severe type of containment one could hope to attempt.
I conceded at the start that the "mind as enemy" types of meditation offer a modicum of benefit.
In one sense, the problems of the mind are the level playing field of everyone, so any attempt to solve the problem (outside of the standard of "feeding the greed") is noble.