Measured physical effects of collective attention at Burning Man

exchemist said:
Those of you with functioning critical faculties may find this Rationalwiki link relevant and amusing: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Noetic_science

I had not realised that that charlatan and abysmal writer Dan Brown was involved. We learn something every day. But, if evidence proof were needed that this is bunk, then Brown's attentions should eliminate all doubt. :D
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From article:

"Noetic sciences are explorations into the nature and potentials of consciousness using multiple ways of knowing—including intuition, feeling, reason, and the senses. Noetic sciences explore the "inner cosmos" of the mind (consciousness, soul, spirit) and how it relates to the "outer cosmos" of the physical world."

All of which sounds more like other ways of knowing than science."

Omg! More ways of knowing than science? How blasphemous! lol!

FYI, author Dan Brown only mentions noetic science in his novel. He is not connected to the Institute in any way.
 
Magical Realist said:
Have you ever experienced a time when the collective enthusiasm of a large event seemed to rise to such a peak that you could almost feel a crackle in the air?
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Yes, at last night's Bruce Springsteen show.

Or felt a haunting sense in the air while visiting a place that caused sadness or suffering for thousands of people?
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Yes, but only when I knew in advance that such an incident had occurred at that location.
 
origin said:
It was not an insult it was an observation.
Here is a link to what Magical Thinking is.

From the artical:
Magical thinking may lead people to believe that their thoughts by themselves can bring about effects in the world or that thinking something corresponds with doing it.

That is precisely what this thread is about!
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for me it sounds like , nothing more than, superstition-- " don't step on a crack or you will break your mother's back!"
 
origin said:
It was not an insult it was an observation.
Here is a link to what Magical Thinking is.

From the artical:
Magical thinking may lead people to believe that their thoughts by themselves can bring about effects in the world or that thinking something corresponds with doing it.

That is precisely what this thread is about!
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Consciousness can't bring about effects in the world? That's news to me. Everybody's consciousness effects how they react to the world. The emotions they feel. The actions they perform. The things they perceive. Consciousness can also collapse wavefunctions, and even slows down the decay of atoms as demonstrated in the Quantum Zeno Effect. If that's magical thinking, then we're all magical thinkers.

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/10/zeno-effect-verified-atoms-wont-move-while-you-watch
 
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Magical Realist said:
Consciousness can't bring about effects in the world?
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Not without an actual physical act.
That's news to me.
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I know, that is why I made the comment about magical thinking.
Everybody's consciousness effects how they react to the world. The emotions they feel. The actions they perform. The things they perceive.
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Obviously, but that is not what we are talking about. The magical thinking is that, JUST your thoughts can cause a physical change outside of yourself.
Consciousness can also collapse wavefunctions,
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Incorrect. That is magical thinking.
and even slows down the decay of atoms as demonstrated in the Quantum Zeno Effect.
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Incorrect. That is magical thinking, consciousness is not the driver of the Zeno Effect - it is the measuring of the system.
If that's magical thinking, then we're all magical thinkers.
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No not all of us....
 
origin said:
Not without an actual physical act.

I know, that is why I made the comment about magical thinking.

Obviously, but that is not what we are talking about. The magical thinking is that, JUST your thoughts can cause a physical change outside of yourself.

Incorrect. That is magical thinking.

Incorrect. That is magical thinking, consciousness is not the driver of the Zeno Effect - it is the measuring of the system.

No not all of us....
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I found this rather a good article on magical thinking: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/happiness-in-world/201303/magical-thinking-redux

It makes the point that magical thinking is an inherent tendency in human beings and can have some uses, for example in enjoyment of certain types of experience. But it also is at pains to point out the pitfalls and the need to exert discipline to prevent inappropriate magical thinking. The development of science can be seen in some ways as a long historical battle against magical thinking.
 
origin said:
Not without an actual physical act.
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How does consciousness or mind cause a physical act if it has no effects on anything. It obviously does all the time doesn't it?

Incorrect. That is magical thinking, consciousness is not the driver of the Zeno Effect - it is the measuring of the system.
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No..it is observation as well. The mere act of observing can change events at the quantum level. This is proven science:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/02/980227055013.htm
 
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gmilam said:
How many times do people have to explain that this is BS? Seriously?
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Dean Radin

"Abstract: The hypothesis that consciousness collapses the quantum wavefunction was tested using a double-slit optical system. The principal measurement was the ratio of double-slit to single-slit spectral power associated with the interference pattern. The consciousness collapse hypothesis predicted that this ratio would decrease when participants focused their attention towards the optical system, as compared to when they withdrew their attention.

Six experiments were conducted to test various aspects of the hypothesis. Each study consisted of 40 counterbalanced attention-towards and attention-away periods, with each period lasting from 15 to 30 seconds. Results combined over a total of 250 test sessions indicated that the ratio decreased in accordance with the hypothesis (z = -4.0, p < 0.00004). Two hundred calibration sessions run without observers present tested hardware, software, and analytical procedures for potential artifacts; those data showed no difference in the spectral ratio (z = 0.12, p < 0.60). Attention training, electrocortical measurements, and psychological variables associated with the modulation of attention and perception correlated in predictable ways with changes in the interference pattern. The results suggest that the human mind interacts with a double-slit interference pattern in a way that is consistent with an interpretation of the quantum measurement problem, that consciousness collapses the wavefunction."===https://www.scientificexploration.o...ble-slit-interference-pattern-six-experiments
 
cosmictraveler said:
Lemmings follow the pack even when they are going off of a cliff to their demise. They just follow blindly as they all think they are heading in the right direction even when they aren't.
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Actually, lemmings don't usually throw themselves off a cliff - http://www.snopes.com/disney/films/lemmings.asp
None of what was shown in the film was realistic lemming behavior, however. Disney's White Wildernesswas filmed the Canadian province of Alberta, which is not a native habitat for lemmings and is landlocked with no outlet to the sea. The filmmakers had to import lemmings to Alberta for use in the documentary (reportedly by purchasing them from Inuit children who had caught them in other provinces); through the use of carefully controlled camera angles and tight editing, the filmmakers made no more than a few dozen lemmings look like a much larger number, placing them on turntables to create a frenzied migration effect and then herding them off a cliff and into the water (which was actually the Bow River, not an Arctic sea).
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In reality, it appears Lemmings have a better grasp on reality that our neighbor MR here...
 
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