Mark 9
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Saint
Valued Senior Member
Mark, who was also called John, was not killed but was placed in prison, where he wrote Revelations. In his vision, he saw the coming of the end, including the final battle with Jesus and armies of heaven.
You can say what you like Sunshine, but how it is that you have not been reprimanded for your style of threads, I'll never know.
jan.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
None of the disciples actually wrote the gospels attributed to them. Anyway, that verse could mean two things. Either some of the apostles are immortal (or practically so), or Jesus was just some guy.
I think it means that some people will find, through themselves and while still living, the Truth and the power that otherwise can be known after death.
(from The Gospel of Thomas: And He said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these
sayings will not experience death."
2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he
finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes
troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."
3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty.")
And why would anyone be reprimanded for a post like this one?
(from The Gospel of Thomas: And He said, "Whoever finds the interpretation of these
sayings will not experience death."
2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he
finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes
troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."
3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say, 'See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty.")
And why would anyone be reprimanded for a post like this one?
Today's churches have ministers who don't believe in God, minister who practice sexual practices that are in conflict with the scripture they preach.
What's your point?
jan.
One has to look at history to see what happens. The very original Christians, right after the death of Jesus, were public enemy number one, subject to holocaust type persecution. If you did not renounce your faith, and lie about it, you were tortured and killed. This killed off most of the original faithful who would not compromise their faith. What was left after most of the original faithful were murdered, were Christians who were a little more secular watered down. Their survival required a more pragmatic world view, in line with secular bias. If you lied to appease the secular mob, you would be rewarded with your life. This was negative conditioning by the mob.
The original seven churches, during the first century, showed some of the effects of this secularism and regression. Philadelphia was the exception. Most of this had to do with secular compromises and integration; power and politics. As an example, in modern times, if secular/atheist culture wants abortion and your church forbids it, you become an outcast and a target of the angry mob. If you allow abortion, in your church, culture is more accepting, but you become labeled as corrupt in terms of Christianity by the same mob. It is no win, since you are dammed if you do, and dammed if you don't.
By the fourth century, Christianity becomes the official religion of Rome. Rome was not the official secular of Christianity, since Rome was a world super power. Rome was in charge and makes changes to suit the needs of the official religion of a world empire. This 4th century merger was a reward to the Christian soldiers, who were the most fearless in the Roman army. Rome was on the decline and these soldiers were the best fighters. With this merger, the word of God could be preached to the entire western world, without fear, due to Rome. The Roman Catholic Church is the descendent of ancient Rome.
Through the dark and middle ages Christianity is mixed with Roman imperialism, with that no nonsense Roman toughness. By the 15th century, the church begins to split; Protestant movement. This helped to separate and isolate Rome and Christianity. Now there are pure churches and churches much more secular in the spirit of Roman excess and perversion. This split is also why atheism (Rome) is also never too far from Christianity, in terms of hostile interaction. The persecution returns the more atheism separates from its roots in the merge.
"Kingdom of God" is often seen in an eschatological context.
Hence some of those men could have seen evidence of his enduring legacy before their death.
Realized eschatology is a Christian eschatological theory popularized by C. H. Dodd (1884–1973) that holds that the eschatological passages in the New Testament do not refer to the future, but instead refer to the ministry of Jesus and his lasting legacy. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realized_eschatology
Hence some of those men could have seen evidence of his enduring legacy before their death.
*************
M*W: It is false. How could Jesus say something some 40 years after he was crucified,
2) It's not possible,
3) He was never crucified,
4) Mark was not the author of Mark,
5) Jesus never existed.
WellWisher: I thought that the John who wrote Revelations & the John who wrote the fourth gospel were different persons & that neither was Mark who wrote the second Gospel. From your Post #3:
To me (an atheist), the Bible is interesting from the POV of literature, psychology, & sociology.
BTW: I think that Mark was actually the First Gospel written & that Mark might have known or seen Jesus.
To me (an atheist), the Bible is interesting from the POV of literature, psychology, & sociology.
Jesus spoke about the disciple he loved, which is mentioned in John. John would see the coming of Christ in his visions of revelations which he wrote about and dies of old age in prison.
In tradition Mark John was well like with Peter often though to be his father. He is with Paul in Rome and visits him in prison and disappears from the scene. John of Revelations is exiled to a remote prison but is not killed.
Saint
Valued Senior Member
No, Jesus said "some who are", plural,
he meant many people of his audience,
in other verses, he referred to "this generation",
but those people had died long time ago and he did not come.
He simply cheated us.
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