"Lost" in translation.

Janus58

Janus58

Valued Senior Member
I recently watched a video made by a a couple visiting Finland, and they made a comment on how Finland was known as the "Land of a thousand Lakes", which is a term I've often heard and seen used before. It struck me as a bit incongruous, as the State of Minnesota is the "land of 10,000 lakes", yet has 1/10 the lakes that Finland has. I know Finns have a penchant for understatement, but this seems to be taking it too far. I commented as such, and someone from Finland responded that a more correct version of the phrase is "Land of thousands of lakes" As it turns out, the phrase in Finnish: "Tuhansien järvien maa", can be translated as either "Land of a thousand lakes" or "Land of thousands of lakes". Thus, due to one translation being chosen over the other, Finland "lost" the majority of its lakes.
 
TIL that Finland has 188,000 lakes. And that Minnesota has 11,842.

TIAL that Ontario has 250,000 lakes - about 1/5 of the world's fresh water.
 
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I was taken to a nudist colony at one of the many Ontario lakes years ago and found the largest collection of black flies I've ever seen.
 
Janus58 said:
I recently watched a video made by a a couple visiting Finland, and they made a comment on how Finland was known as the "Land of a thousand Lakes", which is a term I've often heard and seen used before. It struck me as a bit incongruous, as the State of Minnesota is the "land of 10,000 lakes", yet has 1/10 the lakes that Finland has. I know Finns have a penchant for understatement, but this seems to be taking it too far. I commented as such, and someone from Finland responded that a more correct version of the phrase is "Land of thousands of lakes" As it turns out, the phrase in Finnish: "Tuhansien järvien maa", can be translated as either "Land of a thousand lakes" or "Land of thousands of lakes". Thus, due to one translation being chosen over the other, Finland "lost" the majority of its lakes.
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www.classicfm.com

What is Norway’s national anthem, and what are the lyrics in English?

‘Yes, we love this country’ became Norway’s official national anthem in 2019, and celebrates the love and devotion the Norwegian people have for their country.
www.classicfm.com www.classicfm.com

"A thousand houses" is part of Norway's official National Anthem.

I came across this idea in a song that incorporated the expression in a subversive way .The lyrics were "Disneyland i de tusen hjem" and that would have been a pop song in the 70's when I worked there.

I suppose the idea of a thousand houses may express the scattered nature of the settlements in Norway where transport can be across water in Winter and the roads ressemble toboggan tunnels as the snow gets higher and higher at the sides.
 
Minnesota can make any claims it wants to make. But given the lake "density" is close to the highest, if not THE highest, in the US, it's a legit bragging right.
 
Gawdzilla Sama said:
Minnesota can make any claims it wants to make. But given the lake "density" is close to the highest, if not THE highest, in the US, it's a legit bragging right.
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"in the US" is doing a lot of lifting in that sentence. ;)
 
DaveC426913 said:
TIL that Finland has 188,000 lakes. And that Minnesota has 11,842.

TIAL that Ontario has 250,000 lakes - about 1/5 of the world's fresh water.
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Surface area of Finland 130,681 sq mi, resulting in a lake density of 1.4 lakes/sq mi. Area of Minnesota, 86,943 sq mi, lake density 0.13 lakes/sq mi
Area of Ontario, 415,600 sq mi, lake density 0.6 lakes/sq mi. This may, in part, explain the high concentration of people with Finnish ancestry in these areas of Canada and the US. Ontario has over half the Finnish-Canadian population( with ~ 0.56% of the demographic being of Finnish descent) with 20% of that population residing in Thunder bay. In the US, 1/3 of Finnish-Americans live in either Minnesota, Michigan, or Wisconsin, In Minnesota, they make up ~ 2% of the population. Within these states, the higher concentration is to the North, such as in the Upper Peninsula of MI. Where I was born in Northern MN, it approached 20% of the population.
 
Janus58 said:
Thus, due to one translation being chosen over the other, Finland "lost" the majority of its lakes.
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I am reminded of a very early translation of the Bible from Hebrew to Greek. The Hebrew word "almah"(עַלמָה) was correctly translated into the greek word for "maiden" (kori or κόρη) in most of the Bible.

But in a few sections that became very important later - primarily Matthew and Mark - it was translated as "virgin." Given that the Hebrew word for virgin (beetula or בְּתוּלָה) is quite different, it's unsure whether this change in translation was intentional or accidental. But in either case it pretty dramatically changed the course of a religion.
 
billvon said:
I am reminded of a very early translation of the Bible from Hebrew to Greek. The Hebrew word "almah"(עַלמָה) was correctly translated into the greek word for "maiden" (kori or κόρη) in most of the Bible.

But in a few sections that became very important later - primarily Matthew and Mark - it was translated as "virgin." Given that the Hebrew word for virgin (beetula or בְּתוּלָה) is quite different, it's unsure whether this change in translation was intentional or accidental. But in either case it pretty dramatically changed the course of a religion.
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That’s an interesting distinction. Maiden in English usage is often taken to be synonymous with virgin, cf. maidenhead. What meaning did it have in Greek or Hebrew?
 
billvon said:
I am reminded of a very early translation of the Bible from Hebrew to Greek. The Hebrew word "almah"(עַלמָה) was correctly translated into the greek word for "maiden" (kori or κόρη) in most of the Bible.

But in a few sections that became very important later - primarily Matthew and Mark - it was translated as "virgin." Given that the Hebrew word for virgin (beetula or בְּתוּלָה) is quite different, it's unsure whether this change in translation was intentional or accidental. But in either case it pretty dramatically changed the course of a religion.
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Another example of a dubious translation of the Bible comes from the description of Moses as he came off the mount. What seems to originally meant to mean that his face shone with rays of light was translated as "horned", thus you get Michelangelo's statue of Moses sporting horns on his head.
 
exchemist said:
That’s an interesting distinction. Maiden in English usage is often taken to be synonymous with virgin, cf. maidenhead. What meaning did it have in Greek or Hebrew?
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Smarthistory – Kouroi and Korai, an introduction

smarthistory.org smarthistory.org

As for the Greek, that says there that "kore" is just the female counterpart of "kouros" which was a boy (young man?)

It also describes one of the kore statues as carrying a lotus which was a symbol of virginity. (so most kore statues were not necessarily depicting maidens I assume)
 
exchemist said:
Er, you mean virgins.....? :?
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Well I originally wrote "virgins" and crossed it out in favour of "maidens" )

Perhaps I should have left it at "virgins".(I was thinking that "virgin" could apply to any age but perhaps that didn't matter.)

(Not sure if kore statues always depict that young age group -I got the feeling from that article that they did)
 
geordief said:
Well I originally wrote "virgins" and crossed it out in favour of "maidens" )

Perhaps I should have left it at "virgins".(I was thinking that "virgin" could apply to any age but perhaps that didn't matter.)

(Not sure if kore statues always depict that young age group -I got the feeling from that article that they did)
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Oh I see. But your point is that kore, though youthful, were not necessarily assumed to be virgins, I presume.
 
exchemist said:
Oh I see. But your point is that kore, though youthful, were not necessarily assumed to be virgins, I presume.
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My understanding but just from what I read in that link.

I am actually reading Stephen Fry's "Heroes" at the moment.(a very easy read if I was a better reader) and perhaps when I get to the end of it he will have had something to say in that general area.

I went to Greece once to try and learn a bit of modern Greek (got a job in a shoe maker shop where they got me to answer the phone to their debtors in London) and one of the very few words I remember learning was " eimai kourasmenos**" ,meaning "I am tired" -although I probably learned that before I went from a book.

** no connection to "kouros" that I know ,just a similar looking word.
 
exchemist said:
That’s an interesting distinction. Maiden in English usage is often taken to be synonymous with virgin, cf. maidenhead. What meaning did it have in Greek or Hebrew?
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The Hebrew term "maiden" was used several other times for unmarried young women in the Bible. It suggested virginity in the same way that "maid" today suggests it, but given that there was another Hebrew word for "virgin" also used in the Bible, it's unlikely that that is how it was defined back then.
 
"...the young girls who have never known a man..." is the phrase I remember. If a girl got raped she was deemed "damaged goods" and would probably stay at home as a virtual slave to her family. (Just as bad as being a slave to some nonfamilial guy without having to shit out babies once a year for a few decades (worst case).
 
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