Kissing the Black Stone (Islam)

[Quantum Quack]

Opinion:

The latest execution of hostage British aid worker David Haines (R.I.P) by ISIL, is clearly (to me any way) the insane and extreme manifestation of what happens when up to 23% of the world (1.6 billion) followers of Islam focus their "religious fever" on a single location (Kaaba Mecca) up to 5 times a day.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-14/islamic-state-britain-to-hunt-down-david-haines-killers-cameron/5743004?WT.mc_id=newsmail
(2014-09-15)
"Kissing the black stone" is like kissing the black heart of humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

The similarities to the black flag of ISIL, the icon used and the black stone are easy to see...

View attachment 7333



The worship of idols perhaps..?
The Power of Prayers..
The law or attraction at work perhaps..
Evidence of psychic phenomena ...?

Care to discuss the parapsychology involved?

 

[Stryder]

Opinion:

The latest execution of hostage British aid worker David Haines (R.I.P) by ISIL, is clearly (to me any way) the insane and extreme manifestation of what happens when up to 23% of the world (1.6 billion) followers of Islam focus their "religious fever" on a single location (Kaaba Mecca) up to 5 times a day.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-14/islamic-state-britain-to-hunt-down-david-haines-killers-cameron/5743004?WT.mc_id=newsmail
(2014-09-15)
"Kissing the black stone" is like kissing the black heart of humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

The similarities to the black flag of ISIL, the icon used and the black stone are easy to see...

View attachment 7333



The worship of idols perhaps..?
The Power of Prayers..
The law or attraction at work perhaps..
Evidence of psychic phenomena ...?

Care to discuss the parapsychology involved?

There is nothing para-psychological about generations of Middle Eastern teenagers growing up miles away from their homeland to either become poisoned by their own obsession about the slanting of western media or some bullshit some cleric spoon fed them. They are targetted because of their youth, because of the conflict that occurred in their countries and manipulated to serve a militia much how child soldiers have been used in some African conflicts.

This is why it's futile to try and understand their perspective as it would be the perspective of children, not men.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Through out all of known history, this region of the world has been plagued with serious instability and constant warfare. A common theme underpinning this is also the history of the black stone which predates Islam by some significant years. A stone that "fell out of the sky", a gift of the heavens, and one according to Islam the prophet Mohammed kissed. An act that even the devotees of the time could not understand.
"I kiss it only because he did"

Since then the ritual kissing of the stone, prayers whilst focused on the Kaaba (the stone is part of the Eastern corner.), and annual pilgrimage has dominated Islamic tradition and dogma.
It is the treasured icon that is held by the Saudis who practice the sort of extreme Islam as displayed by ISIL. (exceptions*?)
The relationship between "God made me do it", "I am but a puppet of Gods will" as expressed by certain Sunni (*?) sects indicates blind devotion to a God (or dare I say "Stone") of some sorts. So severe is this devotion that death is welcomed if God (stone) commands it.

How else can we explain the incredible depravity that we, as a world have been forced to witness with the ISIL movement? The extremes are "way too extreme" to find any way of being wrapped up with some sort of explanation that doesn't include collective psychosis.

How is this collective-ness created in such a brutal fashion?

This is no different IMO to a Paranoid Schizophrenic suffering a psychotic bout and claims the Devil made him/ her do it. Just a God of a different color.
However in this case we have 23% or the worlds population feeding this monster and some of whom are just experiencing a collective version of the same hysteria experienced by an individual Paranoid Schizophrenic suffering a psychotic episode but doing so collectively.

The West typically can not fathom the nature of the intractable problems of the Middle East because it fails to appreciate the reality of psychically induced collective hysteria and how it effects and attracts troubled minds and hearts. The Black stone only being a "focal point" for the collective mind of a God called Allah and a focal point that certain Psychotic individuals can psychically tune into easily and find solace and purpose for their troubled lives.

 

[river]

Through out all of known history, this region of the world has been plagued with serious instability and constant warfare. A common theme underpinning this is also the history of the black stone which predates Islam by some significant years. A stone that "fell out of the sky", a gift of the heavens, and one according to Islam the prophet Mohammed kissed. An act that even the devotees of the time could not understand.
"I kiss it only because he did"

Since then the ritual kissing of the stone, prayers whilst focused on the Kaaba (the stone is part of the Eastern corner.), and annual pilgrimage has dominated Islamic tradition and dogma.
It is the treasured icon that is held by the Saudis who practice the sort of extreme Islam as displayed by ISIL. (exceptions*?)
The relationship between "God made me do it", "I am but a puppet of Gods will" as expressed by certain Sunni (*?) sects indicates blind devotion to a God (or dare I say "Stone") of some sorts. So severe is this devotion that death is welcomed if God (stone) commands it.

How else can we explain the incredible depravity that we, as a world have been forced to witness with the ISIL movement? The extremes are "way too extreme" to find any way of being wrapped up with some sort of explanation that doesn't include collective psychosis.

How is this collective-ness created in such a brutal fashion?

This is no different IMO to a Paranoid Schizophrenic suffering a psychotic bout and claims the Devil made him/ her do it. Just a God of a different color.
However in this case we have 23% or the worlds population feeding this monster and some of whom are just experiencing a collective version of the same hysteria experienced by an individual Paranoid Schizophrenic suffering a psychotic episode but doing so collectively.

The West typically can not fathom the nature of the intractable problems of the Middle East because it fails to appreciate the reality of psychically induced collective hysteria and how it effects and attracts troubled minds and hearts. The Black stone only being a "focal point" for the collective mind of a God called Allah and a focal point that certain Psychotic individuals can psychically tune into easily and find solace and purpose for their troubled lives.

Troubled lives is the important point

They know nothing else

 

[Landau Roof]

Opinion:

The latest execution of hostage British aid worker David Haines (R.I.P) by ISIL, is clearly (to me any way) the insane and extreme manifestation of what happens when up to 23% of the world (1.6 billion) followers of Islam focus their "religious fever" on a single location (Kaaba Mecca) up to 5 times a day.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-...nes-killers-cameron/5743004?WT.mc_id=newsmail
(2014-09-15)
"Kissing the black stone" is like kissing the black heart of humanity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Stone

The similarities to the black flag of ISIL, the icon used and the black stone are easy to see...

View attachment 7333



The worship of idols perhaps..?
The Power of Prayers..
The law or attraction at work perhaps..
Evidence of psychic phenomena ...?

Care to discuss the parapsychology involved?

Yeah. You just go on hating and thinking you're better than other people. That'll work!

 

[sculptor]

Polygyny leads to lots of horny young men leads to radicalism.
It's hormonal.
allahu akbar

 

[Quantum Quack]

Polygyny leads to lots of horny young men leads to radicalism.
It's hormonal.
allahu akbar

One of the greatest threats to Islam is the liberty offered to women by Western secular democracies...education, equality [of a sort], sexual freedom and the freedom to love and most importantly "bed" whom they choose. Not to mention the freedom to worship whom they choose...
Of course Muslim men of the extreme variety, are paranoid about the corrupting influences from the West. My guess is that losing control of the women is their greatest hidden and yet sometimes quite obvious fear.

 

[sculptor]

My wife is still a professor in this college town.
I ocasionally see young women dressed head to toe in these burqa/hijab gowns of their own volition.
Really odd to my eye. If the goal is modesty, then standing out like a sore thumb doesn't quite cut it.
I am more used to college aged women wearing short jackets and tight trousers.

I suspect that there is much about their culture that we do not understand.

 

[Quantum Quack]

My wife is still a professor in this college town.
I ocasionally see young women dressed head to toe in these burqa/hijab gowns of their own volition.
Really odd to my eye. If the goal is modesty, then standing out like a sore thumb doesn't quite cut it.
I am more used to college aged women wearing short jackets and tight trousers.

I suspect that there is much about their culture that we do not understand.

I would suspect that the fear of their "masters" jealous rage would be present at all times.
To worship under duress is not genuine worship nor is love under duress a genuine love.
I believe we have no real idea of what a life time (generational) of intense oppression and indoctrination can do to a person.

Can a love driven by fear ever be genuine?

 

[cornel]

The latest execution of hostage British aid worker David Haines (R.I.P) by ISIL, is clearly (to me any way) the insane and extreme manifestation of what happens when up to 23% of the world (1.6 billion) followers of Islam focus their "religious fever" on a single location (Kaaba Mecca) up to 5 times a day.

People die in wars.
If you can't kill the soldiers because they're 1200 miles in the sky or in fully armored vehicles you can't penetrate, you start killing anyone who aids them, if you know guerilla-warfare.

 

[Quantum Quack]

People die in wars.
If you can't kill the soldiers because they're 1200 miles in the sky or in fully armored vehicles you can't penetrate, you start killing anyone who aids them, if you know guerilla-warfare.

How does beheading a British aid worker help the ISIL war effort? When you consider that it could only provoke a more unified Global military response?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Maybe we should ask this guy, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, what his definition of insanity is?

 

[cornel]

How does beheading a British aid worker help the ISIL war effort? When you consider that it could only provoke a more unified Global military response?

Are you trying to argue they 're crazy because of a supposed tactical error ?

 

[Quantum Quack]

Are you trying to argue they 're crazy because of a supposed tactical error ?

Perhaps if you address the actual question I raise you may find the answer to your question.

How does beheading a British aid worker help the ISIL war effort? When you consider that it could only provoke a more unified Global military response?

Then ask ISIL what it's definition of insanity is... and note that shooting themselves in the foot should be a big part of it.

so is :
"If you don't love me I will cut your head off"

 

[Quantum Quack]

The image referred to in the OP. (lost due to sciforums upgrade)
Note the similarities between the flags icon and the black stone. Also the use of black uniforms.

 

[Landau Roof]

@QQ, Cornel has answered your principle question in post nine, I think. Why do you ignore his answer?

To answer another of your questions, No. I don't see that the flag images are similar at all, and so what if they were? Would that explain everything! Should we take away their flags and our worries will be over? This is real life, not a game of Stratego.

Sorry, but your views on women, Western and Middle East are just laughable. Do you actually know any women? Maybe females of your acquaintance 'bed' whoever they want, but in my world (post-1969 -summer of love) Western women (and men) are restrained by all sorts of social norms and senses of morality and fairness. Need I even go into it? How could you possibly be unaware?

As for The ladies of Islam, I know for a fact that behind the walls of the luxurious estates of Saudi Arabia, they live the feminine version of the life of Riley. The malls of Riyadh are not chock full of fancy dress shops, perfumeries and the other frippery women and girls love because no one buys it. Allah knows what the 'women only' malls are like inside and what they sell! (Of course, I have never been in them). When I was in the kingdom, the controversy of the moment was whether to allow high school girls to play sports at their schools. The government decided against it, but how did the young ladies of Arabia even know about volleyball and tennis and swimming? They do it in their home compounds - maybe twenty households of their near relatives. I doubt that even Ramadan is much of a big deal for such women. They most likely sleep until 4 p.m. year round, prepare their eye make-up, and head off for the restaurants and luxury malls in the evening for fun. The Asian maids do all the household chores. Oh! Is it Ramadan again already?

And just as children are the same the world over, do you imagine women differ much? When was the last time any woman allowed a man to tell her what to do? Muslim women are believers to. They consent to their position. It is traditional and habitual, and it actually has many advantages from a female perspective. (I'll get back to that in a bit)

And what of the many millions of less affluent Muslim women? Well, what of them? How are they worse off than the millions of poor Western women except that they're not obliged to find work outside the home? Oh horrors! They can't work double shifts at Dunkin Donuts while the old man snoozes! Oppression!

I'm not saying the women of Islam's lives are not restrictive, but I can't see that a poor woman's life in the West is any better (and most people, most women, are poor).

Then there are the Western women who have embraced Islam I know and reports from the Middle Eastern ones (whom I have never spoken with obviously) who say they have found freedom in the burqa and abaya. They love being able to go out and not be ogled by men. They love the straightforwardness of Islamic faith. Here is a religion that forbids men to drink and to disrespect women. Allahu akbar they say, Allahu akbar!

 

[Quantum Quack]

@QQ, Cornel has answered your principle question in post nine, I think. Why do you ignore his answer?

To answer another of your questions, No. I don't see that the flag images are similar at all, and so what if they were? Would that explain everything! Should we take away their flags and our worries will be over? This is real life, not a game of Stratego.

Sorry, but your views on women, Western and Middle East are just laughable. Do you actually know any women? Maybe females of your acquaintance 'bed' whoever they want, but in my world (post-1969 -summer of love) Western women (and men) are restrained by all sorts of social norms and senses of morality and fairness. Need I even go into it? How could you possibly be unaware?

As for The ladies of Islam, I know for a fact that behind the walls of the luxurious estates of Saudi Arabia, they live the feminine version of the life of Riley. The malls of Riyadh are not chock full of fancy dress shops, perfumeries and the other frippery women and girls love because no one buys it. Allah knows what the 'women only' malls are like inside and what they sell! (Of course, I have never been in them). When I was in the kingdom, the controversy of the moment was whether to allow high school girls to play sports at their schools. The government decided against it, but how did the young ladies of Arabia even know about volleyball and tennis and swimming? They do it in their home compounds - maybe twenty households of their near relatives. I doubt that even Ramadan is much of a big deal for such women. They most likely sleep until 4 p.m. year round, prepare their eye make-up, and head off for the restaurants and luxury malls in the evening for fun. The Asian maids do all the household chores. Oh! Is it Ramadan again already?

And just as children are the same the world over, do you imagine women differ much? When was the last time any woman allowed a man to tell her what to do? Muslim women are believers to. They consent to their position. It is traditional and habitual, and it actually has many advantages from a female perspective. (I'll get back to that in a bit)

And what of the many millions of less affluent Muslim women? Well, what of them? How are they worse off than the millions of poor Western women except that they're not obliged to find work outside the home? Oh horrors! They can't work double shifts at Dunkin Donuts while the old man snoozes! Oppression!



I'm not saying the women of Islam's lives are not restrictive, but I can't see that a poor woman's life in the West is any better (and most people, most women, are poor).

Then there are the Western women who have embraced Islam I know and reports from the Middle Eastern ones (whom I have never spoken with obviously) who say they have found freedom in the burqa and abaya. They love being able to go out and not be ogled by men. They love the straightforwardness of Islamic faith. Here is a religion that forbids men to drink and to disrespect women. Allahu akbar they say, Allahu akbar!

So you, as does Cornel, consider beheading a Humanitarian aid worker and threatening to behead other civilian hostages being held [ Did I just use the words "civilian hostages"? ] as being somehow justified?
How do you justify it other than just say as Cornel wrote "People die in wars"?
Do you have any sound and reasonable justification for the atrocities committed and being committed by ISIL in the name of Allah, as we discuss?

How is an Islamic state going to function in a world (including most of the Islamic world) that it has seriously alienated by the decapitation of civilian hostages, not to mention the decapitation of innocent children due to refusal to convert.?

Do you have children? Maybe they are next...maybe you consider having your wife, girlfriend or sister, being forced into a marriage and your children decapitated is acceptable.
Just maybe you consider that an involuntary, severely intimidated and indoctrinated spouse is somehow flattering to your male ego?

Do you wish to discuss ISIL or Islam generally?
Or would you prefer to discuss the fact that the only way a man from ISIL can secure a bride is at gun point and what that says about his manhood and dysfunctional masculinity.

If the only affection you can feel is when you "kiss a back stone" then perhaps that describes the reality of affection in an ISIL household for the ISIL male.

 

[Landau Roof]

So you, as does Cornel, consider beheading a Humanitarian aid worker and threatening to behead other civilian hostages being held [ Did I just use the words "civilian hostages"? ] as being somehow justified?
How do you justify it other than just say as Cornel wrote "People die in wars"?
Do you have any sound and reasonable justification for the atrocities committed and being committed by ISIL in the name of Allah, as we discuss?

How is an Islamic state going to function in a world (including most of the Islamic world) that it has seriously alienated by the decapitation of civilian hostages, not to mention the decapitation of innocent children due to refusal to convert.?

Do you have children? Maybe they are next...maybe you consider having your wife, girlfriend or sister, being forced into a marriage and your children decapitated is acceptable.
Just maybe you consider that an involuntary, severely intimidated and indoctrinated spouse is somehow flattering to your male ego?

Do you wish to discuss ISIL or Islam generally?
Or would you prefer to discuss the fact that the only way a man from ISIL can secure a bride is at gun point and what that says about his manhood and dysfunctional masculinity.

If the only affection you can feel is when you "kiss a back stone" then perhaps that describes the reality of affection in an ISIL household for the ISIL male.

I see why you call yourself Quantum Quack now. So you're just here trolling then seeing whom you can get a rise out of. I get it.

You ask if Cornel and I consider beheading a humanitarian aid worker and threatening to behead other civilian hostages being held as being somehow justified? I won't dignify your blatant trolling with a response. Same goes for the rest of your first paragraph.

You ask, How is an Islamic state going to function in a world (including most of the Islamic world) that it has seriously alienated by the decapitation of civilian hostages, not to mention the decapitation of innocent children due to refusal to convert?

I don't know, but the American and British governments, just to pick two notorious rogue states, seem to function and survive despite the many atrocities they have committed over the centuries and commit to this day.

Instead of condemning groups you perceive as enemies, look at what brought them to such straights. Or do you just assume they are inherently evil because they have beards, black clothes and don't believe in Jesus?

Do you have children? Maybe they are next...maybe you consider having your wife, girlfriend or sister, being forced into a marriage and your children decapitated is acceptable.
Just maybe you consider that an involuntary, severely intimidated and indoctrinated spouse is somehow flattering to your male ego? : More blatant baiting. I will report you if you keep this up. Why would you even ask such questions, phrasing them in the second person singular yet, unless you are starting a flame war. Are you lonesome tonight?

You ask: Do you wish to discuss ISIL or Islam generally? Neither really, and in any case not with a troll who obviously has his mind made up and doesn't really wish to discuss anything. How about you? Which do you want to 'discuss'? The way you move back and forth between them I don't think you know there's a difference between ISIL and mainstream Muslims -who also "kiss the black stone".

You've fixated on this black stone theme of yours, and put too much emphasis on flags and sanity. None of these is important. Militant Islamists are not insane, just angry and frustrated, and its the government you voted into office in whatever English-speaking Western country I assume you are living in that they are mad at. Do you have any idea how Middle Eastern countries (i.e., people) have suffered and been exploited by Western governments? If you want to continue this discussion, answer this question first please.

 

[Quantum Quack]

I think I have written enough to keep you busy for a while...

 

[Quantum Quack]

This thread was originally leading towards how the "Law of Attraction" employed via the "power of prayer" can generate incredibly negative results, hence it's posting in the parapsychology fora.

There are many who believe in the "law of attraction" methodology. ( a vast majority of the worlds population I would suggest)
Many organizations, some secret, some not, make use of it as a major part of their devoted practices.
To me there is no distinction between the "power of prayer" and the "law of attraction" as they utilize the same psychic method.

However as I have written on numerous occasions here at sciforums, the power of prayer can inadvertently seriously infringe upon an unwitting persons inherent freewill which can and often does, lead to an significant amount of inexplicable hostility and anger at the injustice of what is perceived by the "deep" psychic mind as a direct attack upon the persons personal space and physical sovereignty.

The suggestion of this thread is that when approx. 23% of the world population (Muslim) is praying for more or less the same thing (peace) whilst focused on a single point (Kaaba in Mecca) it is little wonder, with the above in mind, that constant war/hostility is the outcome.

Thus, the mass collective psychic hysteria, and generation of the constant instability and violence in the Middle East can be explained using the law of attraction, power of prayer and it's impact on freewill, especially when considering this incredible focus on a single point by so many passionate people.