Is there a method?

No. They are all being clear, not doing unhelpful things such as answering a question with a question. Nothing in your response has any relevance to the question I asked. Declining to answer appears an indicator of evasiveness. Again: you violated your own definition.

Trippy responded pretty well to your post though: I have nothing else to add.

R_W, the question you asked of me, in your Post #150 (question, in Bold by me) :
Yes, doctors do use a method related to the scientific method when diagnosing illnesses. As do auto mechanics when diagnosing car problems. As do I when diagnosing what's that smell in my fridge?

But you do agree that none of these have anything to do with the thread, right? Because they aren't The Scientific Method since they aren't being used to find scientific theories.

I answered that question in my Post #151 - and I did not answer it with a question! :
Alas...no...R_W, I must humbly state that I cannot agree with your final question, nor your final statement, either.

If, on the off chance, that you were referring to either of these questions :
Clearly, whether or not you have a hemorrhoid is not a "fundamental Law of the Natural world", right? So nothing a doctor does to diagnose it can be the actual scientific method, can it? Heck, what the auto mechanic is doing isn't really even closely related to science at all!

I was not aware of any "conversational tenets or laws" that demands providing answers to "rhetorical questions".

R_W, if I failed to answer a question, or answered one (other than a rhetorical one) with a question, it was in no way intentional on my part.
If I have, indeed, done just that, then I am extremely sorry, and I humbly ask for your apology

If you would, please, clarify which question is at issue, or, even possibly, repeat the question?

I will be more than happy to address it.
 
OK, let's back up: you said doctors use one of "the scientific methods" when diagnosing. Is that method different from The Scientific Method the rest of us described? If so, how? If not, why bother adding the "s" at the end?
 
Same old storm...same old teacup.

The Scientific method is a "common sense" basic framework to facilitate logical reasoning and whose structure and methodology allows for flexibility and variability, in investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, solving problems, and is unkowningly also followed in everyday life.

There is no argument in my opinion on that score.
Ordinarily, I wouldn't split hairs on whether an auto mechanic follows the scientific method or just a similar method adapted from it, but I don't trust DMOE.
 
Indeed, there is! As an example : Quite a few people tell me that "common sense" tells them, that it is not possible to boil water in a paper cup by placing the cup directly onto a burning wood campfire. Their "common sense" in that respect, could be said to be ignoring established scientific facts, if it produces that conclusion.
I think it's okay to use common sense recursively, and point out that common sense tends to break down under the burden of complexity. ;)

"followed rigorously" are your words, not mine.
Yes. You seemed to not be familiar with the notion of hard sciences vs. soft sciences. The difference is, specifically, in how rigorously the scientific method can be followed.

Honestly, I am not sure, either. However, with all due respect, I believe that I will continue to use the term : "natural world", when describing this particular world, which is only a near unimaginably tiny, minuscule part of the Universe.
That seems unnecessarily restrictive. Not only have our observations of the sun, moon and all the other planets, asteroids, comets, satellites, etc. in our solar system, as well as of other stars (including their own planets), other galaxies and various other bits of "stuff" floating around the universe affirmed the validity of the natural laws we have compiled, but have also provided a massive amount of evidence that has helped us expand and refine those laws. It seems that with every passing decade we discover a new corollary to something we learned in the previous decade, and it's frequently the result of an observation of something so far away that we couldn't even see it 25 years ago. Exoplanets, for example

So I don't understand why you want to limit your universe of discourse to this one planet. Particularly since human beings have actually walked on the Moon and our artifacts are--well, locomoting, if not exactly walking--around on Mars.

Everything within our Hubble Volume is clearly just as natural as the things we observe on this planet; and furthermore helps us refine our definition of the word "natural." So why can't we say so?

FR, you can say anything you care to about any "supernatural" this or that.
I think it's important to make the point that religion is, at its very essence, an assertion that supernatural things, forces and creatures exist. As I noted earlier, this assertion cannot be interpreted logically in any other way except as a claim that the natural universe is not a closed system, and instead is acted upon by supernatural creatures and forces that don't obey the laws of nature, and therefore that the premise which underlies all science (that the natural universe is a closed system whose behavior can be predicted by theories derived logically from observation of its present and past behavior) is not true.

Anyone who claims that science is not true, without providing a single shred of evidence to back up that claim, must be ignored at best, and bedecked with a "Warning: Idiot" sign around his neck at worst.

If there is "zero evidence" for the existence of this "supernatural universe", why have you chosen to introduce it to the discussion?
Because it's the 500 lb gorilla in any discussion of science. It's always there. There are fundamentalist-leaning Christians, Muslims, Jews and members of other religions everywhere, ready to tell us that we're going to Hell--precisely because we don't believe in it!

Are you in someway trying to tell me that I made an assertion - by asking a question? Was the < preceding question an assertion, also?
No, sorry. I should have written more formally in the third person: If ONE makes an assertion...
 
OK, let's back up: you said doctors use one of "the scientific methods" when diagnosing.

If you are referring to one of these Posts :

My Post #89 :
However, when a hemorrhoid pops up or out, ignoring it is, at best, a temporary response, and eventually a variety of unpleasant methods may be demanded to achieve it's excision!
My Post #96 :
So...no scientific methods are utilized when properly investigating and identifying any medical phenomena, prior to addressing or ignoring said medical phenomena?
You know that to be completely false, so...would that make "that trolling for an argument"?

The scientific methods are for (in Layman's Terms) extracting, defining and refining, identifying and establishing as True the Knowledge of the underlying fundamental Laws of the Natural world/Universe that we are a part of.

Many of those methods are used in medicine to distinguish a difference between a benign or malignant tumor, for instance.

My Post #109 :
R_W, may I be allowed to clarify?

The example I gave was somewhat brief and I will freely admit may be in need of further clarification. Also as you stated, "The "method" a doctor uses when excising a hemorrhoid is not related to finding the "fundamental Laws of the Natural world". The scientific methods are utilized prior to the excision, during the examination and final diagnosis.

For the reason that hemorrhoids are somewhat easy to diagnose, I will use the other example that I used, distinguishing between a benign and malignant tumor - if that is alright with you.

I will use the 3 Steps Posted by Trippy, in his Post #23 of this Thread - I hope that Trippy does not mind! :

1) Make an observation.
2) Develop a hypothesis.
3) Test the hypothesis


- Something is bothering someone, so they visit the doctor.
- The doctor performs an examination - 1) makes an observation
- The doctor makes a preliminary diagnosis - 2) develops a hypothesis
- The doctor then orders a biopsy to confirm his preliminary diagnosis - 3) tests the hypothesis
- The results of the biopsy may lead to a confirmation of the preliminary diagnosis, or may lead to the necessity to repeat some or all of the 3 steps until the actual cause of the bother is properly identified and whether or not the bother needs to be addressed with any surgery or further treatment.

R_W, I hope that my clarification has been clear and concise enough that you realize that I was not trying to imply that any and all action(s) "taken by a doctor in the performance of his duties" utilizes scientific methods.

I do however believe that I am correct in my view that what I explained in my clarification is an example of applied scientific methods in the precise actions of the Doctor during the diagnostic stage of properly identifying the bother.

My Post #151 :
The variety of unpleasant methods that I was referring to were during the Diagnosing, prior to the excision, as I attempted to clarify for you in my Post #109.

R_W, in none of my Posts did I say : "doctors use one of "the scientific methods" when diagnosing"!

In each of my Posts, I was clearly trying to emphasize that multiple scientific methods were utilized.

Is that method different from The Scientific Method the rest of us described?

I do not believe that the methods are different.

I believe they are the same methods that most have been describing.

If so, how? If not, why bother adding the "s" at the end?

I was taught that it was proper grammar to use an "s" at the end of a word, if it was being used in the "plural" sense.
 
dumbest man on earth said:
In each of my Posts, I was clearly trying to emphasize that multiple scientific methods were utilized.
Fine. You're objecting to the singular/plural thing, but that wasn't the part I was asking about: Yes, you are saying that doctors use one or more scientific methods (by your word usage) when diagnosing.
I do not believe that the methods are different...

I was taught that it was proper grammar to use an "s" at the end of a word, if it was being used in the "plural" sense.
Oh, ok, then this is a grammar issue: you don't understand how singular and plural work. When you have multiple identical copies of a written work, you use the singular, not the plural. For example:

Wrong: "I'm reading one of the Hamlets."
Right: "I'm reading Hamlet."

See, multiple copies of the single work "Hamlet" have been produced, but that doesn't make "Hamlet" plural in this context.

Wrong: "We're learning the theories of Special Relativity."
Right: "We're learning the theory of Special Relativity."

If you and someone else are both learning it, that's still one theory regadless of if you are reading it from different books or learning it in different classrooms.

So similarly, if the methods used by different scientists and co-opted by others are the same, then it is one method, not multiple methods.
 
Same old storm...same old teacup.

The Scientific method is a "common sense" basic framework to facilitate logical reasoning and whose structure and methodology allows for flexibility and variability, in investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, solving problems, and is unkowningly also followed in everyday life.

There is no argument in my opinion on that score.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't split hairs on whether an auto mechanic follows the scientific method or just a similar method adapted from it, but I don't trust DMOE.

It seems somewhat ironic to me that you quoted paddoboy, in your ^^above quoted^^ Post, for 2 reasons :

1.) - paddoboy, is that Poster that first introduced the concept of "auto mechanics" utilizing scientific methods, in his Post #3 of this Thread (20 minutes after I had Posted the OP!):
An hypothesis is a limited statement regarding cause and effect in specific situations; it also refers to our state of knowledge before experimental work has been performed and perhaps even before new phenomena have been predicted. To take an example from daily life, suppose you discover that your car will not start. You may say, "My car does not start because the battery is low." This is your first hypothesis. You may then check whether the lights were left on, or if the engine makes a particular sound when you turn the ignition key. You might actually check the voltage across the terminals of the battery. If you discover that the battery is not low, you might attempt another hypothesis ("The starter is broken"; "This is really not my car.")

2.) - paddoboy also seems to imply that he believes that "The Scientific method... is unkowningly also followed in everyday life." :
The Scientific method is a "common sense" basic framework to facilitate logical reasoning and whose structure and methodology allows for flexibility and variability, in investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, solving problems, and is unkowningly also followed in everyday life.

If you really wanted to "...split hairs on whether an auto mechanic follows the scientific method or just a similar method adapted from it,...", would it not be more proper to split those hairs with the Poster that introduced the concept and even seemed to reiterate it, in a sense, in his Post that you quoted?
 
It seems somewhat ironic to me that you quoted paddoboy, in your ^^above quoted^^ Post, for 2 reasons :

1.) - paddoboy, is that Poster that first introduced the concept of "auto mechanics" utilizing scientific methods, in his Post #3 of this Thread (20 minutes after I had Posted the OP!):


2.) - paddoboy also seems to imply that he believes that "The Scientific method... is unkowningly also followed in everyday life." :


If you really wanted to "...split hairs on whether an auto mechanic follows the scientific method or just a similar method adapted from it,...", would it not be more proper to split those hairs with the Poster that introduced the concept and even seemed to reiterate it, in a sense, in his Post that you quoted?



Again, as you strive for letter for letter detail, you reveal the agenda in your posts I speak of.....
That fanatical enterprise of yours again raises the notion, of you not being able to see the forest for the trees.
And yes, maybe an Einstein, or a Bohr or Feynman maybe able to do both, but I respectfully suggest you aint any of them.
 
I think it's okay to use common sense recursively, and point out that common sense tends to break down under the burden of complexity. ;)

Grok'd!

Yes. You seemed to not be familiar with the notion of hard sciences vs. soft sciences. The difference is, specifically, in how rigorously the scientific method can be followed.

No. It seems, to me, at least,that just possibly you may have "assumed" that I was not "familiar with the notion of hard sciences vs. soft sciences". If that assumption had not been made, would in not have been proper to inquire or just plain ask if I was "familiar with the notion.."?

For instance : FR, are you sure that you did not somehow, just possibly, assume that I was not "familiar with the notion of hard sciences vs. soft sciences" ?

That seems unnecessarily restrictive. Not only have our observations of the sun, moon and all the other planets, asteroids, comets, satellites, etc. in our solar system, as well as of other stars (including their own planets), other galaxies and various other bits of "stuff" floating around the universe affirmed the validity of the natural laws we have compiled, but have also provided a massive amount of evidence that has helped us expand and refine those laws. It seems that with every passing decade we discover a new corollary to something we learned in the previous decade, and it's frequently the result of an observation of something so far away that we couldn't even see it 25 years ago. Exoplanets, for example

So I don't understand why you want to limit your universe of discourse to this one planet. Particularly since human beings have actually walked on the Moon and our artifacts are--well, locomoting, if not exactly walking--around on Mars.

Everything within our Hubble Volume is clearly just as natural as the things we observe on this planet; and furthermore helps us refine our definition of the word "natural." So why can't we say so?

It does not seem "unnecessarily restrictive" to me.

I do not want to limit my discourse to this one planet. However, when the subject of my discourse is this "one planet" - I will continue to utilize the term "natural world".

I think it's important to make the point that religion is, at its very essence, an assertion that supernatural things, forces and creatures exist. As I noted earlier, this assertion cannot be interpreted logically in any other way except as a claim that the natural universe is not a closed system, and instead is acted upon by supernatural creatures and forces that don't obey the laws of nature, and therefore that the premise which underlies all science (that the natural universe is a closed system whose behavior can be predicted by theories derived logically from observation of its present and past behavior) is not true.

I do not!

Anyone who claims that science is not true, without providing a single shred of evidence to back up that claim, must be ignored at best, and bedecked with a "Warning: Idiot" sign around his neck at worst.

Are there a lot of people around you wearing these signs?

Because it's the 500 lb gorilla in any discussion of science. It's always there. There are fundamentalist-leaning Christians, Muslims, Jews and members of other religions everywhere, ready to tell us that we're going to Hell--precisely because we don't believe in it!

I cannot, in all honesty, agree with the ^^above quoted^^ !

No, sorry. I should have written more formally in the third person: If ONE makes an assertion...

FR, thank you for the clarification in regards to the "assertion" issue.
 
If you really wanted to "...split hairs on whether an auto mechanic follows the scientific method or just a similar method adapted from it,...", would it not be more proper to split those hairs with the Poster that introduced the concept and even seemed to reiterate it, in a sense, in his Post that you quoted?
Paddoboy and I are on the same page: he isn't misusing the word "methods". You introduced that with your opening post. At this point it is pretty silly for you to continue with this game, implying a problem of grammar when in fact it is your thesis itself that is in question (is wrong). You're desperately trying to save it now.
 
Paddoboy and I are on the same page: he isn't misusing the word "methods". You introduced that with your opening post. At this point it is pretty silly for you to continue with this game, implying a problem of grammar when in fact it is your thesis itself that is in question (is wrong). You're desperately trying to save it now.

I implied no "problem of grammar", what I mentioned in reference to grammar, was not a problem.

I have stated no "thesis" of my own.

I have no impetus to be "desperately trying" anything.
 
I have stated no "thesis" of my own.
In case you forgot, in the OP you said this:
There are, indeed, many different "methods" utilized by scientists...
That's your thesis.

Then in post #165 you said:
I do not believe that the methods are different...
First you said the methods are different, then you said they are not. Clearly, you have contradicted yourself. Clearly, your use of the word "methods" is as incorrect as me saying I'm reading one of the Hamlets.
 
In case you forgot, in the OP you said this:

That's your thesis.

Then in post #165 you said:

First you said the methods are different, then you said they are not. Clearly, you have contradicted yourself. Clearly, your use of the word "methods" is as incorrect as me saying I'm reading one of the Hamlets.

R_W, since, it seems to me, at least, you must play this way.

If you want to take my clearly stated intent for Posting the OP, as a "thesis", then that "thesis" would be :
My intent in Posting this information is to hopefully assuage the adherence of some to the idea that all science must follow a rigid, dogmatic or "written in stone" single "Scientific Method".

There are, indeed, many different "methods" utilized by scientists, and they all demand rigorous testing and validation to be given any credence within the greater scientific community.

It is my firm belief that the plural form of the word "method" should be used when speaking of or referring to "The Scientific Methods"

I only ask that the linked pages be read and considered fully.

R_W, most of the Posters on this Thread have, it seems to me, at least, have been describing (as referenced at the berkeley.edu Links!) "the Simplified Scientific Method".

When you queried me, in your Post #163 (Bold by me)
OK, let's back up: you said doctors use one of "the scientific methods" when diagnosing. Is that method different from The Scientific Method the rest of us described? If so, how? If not, why bother adding the "s" at the end?

My answer to your query was :
I do not believe that the methods are different.

I believe they are the same methods that most have been describing.

R_W, since I clearly stated in the Post where I "clarified" the methods a doctor used ( my Post #109) :
R_W, may I be allowed to clarify?

The example I gave was somewhat brief and I will freely admit may be in need of further clarification. Also as you stated, "The "method" a doctor uses when excising a hemorrhoid is not related to finding the "fundamental Laws of the Natural world". The scientific methods are utilized prior to the excision, during the examination and final diagnosis.

For the reason that hemorrhoids are somewhat easy to diagnose, I will use the other example that I used, distinguishing between a benign and malignant tumor - if that is alright with you.

I will use the 3 Steps Posted by Trippy, in his Post #23 of this Thread - I hope that Trippy does not mind! :

1) Make an observation.
2) Develop a hypothesis.
3) Test the hypothesis


- Something is bothering someone, so they visit the doctor.
- The doctor performs an examination - 1) makes an observation
- The doctor makes a preliminary diagnosis - 2) develops a hypothesis
- The doctor then orders a biopsy to confirm his preliminary diagnosis - 3) tests the hypothesis
- The results of the biopsy may lead to a confirmation of the preliminary diagnosis, or may lead to the necessity to repeat some or all of the 3 steps until the actual cause of the bother is properly identified and whether or not the bother needs to be addressed with any surgery or further treatment.

R_W, I hope that my clarification has been clear and concise enough that you realize that I was not trying to imply that any and all action(s) "taken by a doctor in the performance of his duties" utilizes scientific methods.

I do however believe that I am correct in my view that what I explained in my clarification is an example of applied scientific methods in the precise actions of the Doctor during the diagnostic stage of properly identifying the bother.

R_W, if you still cannot see a difference between "the Simplified Scientific Method" and the "real process of science" as expressed at the berkeley.edu Links, well...then maybe you should take up that issue with berkeley.edu.

Now, if I may be allowed, I would like to raise a few issues :

1.) - Since, it seems to me, at least, that you feel some compelling need to "split hairs" over a "thesis", why not "split" those "hairs" with a Poster that "is on the same page" as you and has Posted their own 'thesis", to wit :
Same old storm...same old teacup.

The Scientific method is a "common sense" basic framework to facilitate logical reasoning and whose structure and methodology allows for flexibility and variability, in investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, solving problems, and is unkowningly also followed in everyday life.

There is no argument in my opinion on that score.

2.) - It also seems to me, at least, that you have made some "assertions" about me :
...in fact it is your thesis itself that is in question (is wrong). You're desperately trying to save it now.

- Would you care to explain how my "thesis" on my "intent" in Posting the OP is "wrong"?
- Would you care to explain how responding to seemingly, to me at least, "inane questions", is in any way, "desperately trying" anything?

3.) - In reference to your statement :
Then in post #165 you said:

- I must humbly point out the fact that I never "said" anything in Fraggle Rocker's Post #165!

R_W, since this is, first and foremost, a Science Forum - would it be too much to ask of Posters that are "on the same page" to possibly follow a few of the basic rules of utilizing even "the Simplified Scientific Method" - and try to be precise and accurate?
 
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...if you still cannot see a difference between "the Simplified Scientific Method" and the "real process of science" as expressed at the berkeley.edu Links, well....then maybe you should take up that issue with berkeley.edu.
You're trying to create conflicts where none exist, while implying that your argument is supported (that you aren't in conflict with them, but I am). Berkeley.edu never uses the term "scientific methods". That's your term: My quarrel is only with you, not with them. We're not talking about the difference between the "real process of science" and the scientific method (yes, the real process of science is more than just the scientific method), we're talking about whether there is more than one scientific method. Again:
I believe they are the same methods that most have been describing.
Right: Whether it is a doctor ordering a biopsy or an auto mechanic checking the voltage of your car battery, that is still just the details of how to accomplish Step 3 of The Scientific Method. Singular.

So lets go about it this way: if the term "scientific methods" is a correct term, then you should be able to find it in one of the links that you say supports you. If you don't, then you can't say that those links support your usage of the term.
I must humbly point out the fact that I never "said" anything in Fraggle Rocker's Post #165
You're trolling. I made a typo. You know what you said and you know where you said it. "Humbly" is false self deprecation (as is your name) and pointing out a typo that you know was just a typo and didn't cause any issues (because you know what you said and properly responded to it) is trolling.
 
You're trying to create conflicts where none exist, while implying that your argument is supported (that you aren't in conflict with them, but I am). Berkeley.edu never uses the term "scientific methods". That's your term: My quarrel is only with you, not with them...

So lets go about it this way: if the term "scientific methods" is a correct term, then you should be able to find it in one of the links that you say supports you. If you don't, then you can't say that those links support your usage of the term.

They do say, "Misconception: There is a single Scientific Method that all scientists follow."

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/misconceptions.php

The larger context for the pages that DMOE linked to is appearance of the new national "Framework for K-12 Science Teaching" in the United States. While these Berkeley webpages appeared before the Framework, Berkeley says that - "Both stress that there is no single "scientific method", that science considers alternative explanations, and that ideas need to be tested against evidence from the natural world."

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/us_alignment.php

You, Paddoboy and Trippy will probably want to argue that the last clause ("ideas need to be tested against evidence from the natural world") makes these statements consistent with your belief in the existence of a single (albeit awfully vague) 'scientific method'. That has some plausibility, I guess. But it's equally true that the authors at Berkeley did choose to say that they want to stress that there is no single scientific method and that it's a misconception to think that there is, which strongly suggests that they wouldn't object to DMOE's first post.
 
They do say, "Misconception: There is a single Scientific Method that all scientists follow."

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/misconceptions.php

The larger context for the pages that DMOE linked to is appearance of the new national "Framework for K-12 Science Teaching" in the United States. While these Berkeley webpages appeared before the Framework, Berkeley says that - "Both stress that there is no single "scientific method", that science considers alternative explanations, and that ideas need to be tested against evidence from the natural world."

http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/us_alignment.php

You, Paddoboy and Trippy will probably want to argue that the last clause ("ideas need to be tested against evidence from the natural world") makes these statements consistent with your belief in the existence of a single (albeit awfully vague) 'scientific method'. That has some plausibility, I guess. But it's equally true that the authors at Berkeley did choose to say that they want to stress that there is no single scientific method and that it's a misconception to think that there is, which strongly suggests that they wouldn't object to DMOE's first post.

And as I have pointed out, dozens of times now, they are correct, there is a misconception that there is some sort of single cook-book method that scientists follow, and that it looks like this:

scientificmethod.jpg


This is a single, cook-book, linear, non-recursive scientific method. This is the scientific method as it is taught in schools. The scientific method, as presented in this diagram is wrong.

What myself, paddoboy, and others are saying is that in general the scientific method is Make an observation, Develop a hypothesis, test the hypothesis, review the hypothesis, but that it's not neccessarily a stepwise lurching from step to step as presented in the above diagram, that it's recursive and a collective effort.

In otherwords we freely admit that sometimes it might look like this:
paths.gif


What we're saying is that if the process you follow happens to be:

Observe, hypothesize, observe, observe, hypothesize, observe, hypothesize, observe, hypothesize, and somebody else has to test and review at a later date, or as in the case of the Sloan Digital Sky Survey, where it is simply 'Observe', and the data subsequently used to test and develop hypotheses by others, then that is a different pathway following the same basic method of Observe, Hypothesize, Test, Review, and that this is exactly the same thing the berkley link says:
flowchart_noninteractive.gif

Even when you examine it in it's full glory. The difference being that where the Berkley link goes into some detail about the different ways each step can be conducted, I do not.

I don't know how I can be any clearer about this.
 
You, Paddoboy and Trippy will probably want to argue that the last clause ("ideas need to be tested against evidence from the natural world") makes these statements consistent with your belief in the existence of a single (albeit awfully vague) 'scientific method'.

Let me rephrase what I think in a manner much closer to the truth [again]
The scientific method is the basic framework that promotes logical deductions and inquiry of a particular situation and/or discovery.
It desirably weeds out those that for whatever reasons, see the need to introduce pseudo quackery and other rubbish to muddy the waters of science and every day life.
As the name infers, it primarily applies to the science disciplines, but also operates in decisions in our day to day living.
Nothing vague about it at all.
In fact the basic scientific method could be said to be a refinement of every day living, although particularly known to be relevent in the science disciplines.

You should notice that in all my posts to this "storm in a tea cup" thread, I have not once mentioned the acceptable steps of the scientific method.

The following is the conclusion remarks from an earlier link of mine.....

The scientific method is intricately associated with science, the process of human inquiry that pervades the modern era on many levels. While the method appears simple and logical in description, there is perhaps no more complex question than that of knowing how we come to know things. In this introduction, we have emphasized that the scientific method distinguishes science from other forms of explanation because of its requirement of systematic experimentation. We have also tried to point out some of the criteria and practices developed by scientists to reduce the influence of individual or social bias on scientific findings. Further investigations of the scientific method and other aspects of scientific practice may be found in the references listed below.

from....

http://teacher.nsrl.rochester.edu/ph...appendixe.html


or as this link says......

What is the ``scientific method''?

The scientific method is the best way yet discovered for winnowing the truth from lies and delusion.

The great advantage of the scientific method is that it is unprejudiced: one does not have to believe a given researcher, one can redo the experiment and determine whether his/her results are true or false. The conclusions will hold irrespective of the state of mind, or the religious persuasion, or the state of consciousness of the investigator and/or the subject of the investigation. Faith, defined as [*] belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence, does not determine whether a scientific theory is adopted or discarded.

A theory is accepted not based on the prestige or convincing powers of the proponent, but on the results obtained through observations and/or experiments which anyone can reproduce: the results obtained using the scientific method are repeatable. In fact, most experiments and observations are repeated many times (certain experiments are not repeated independently but are repeated as parts of other experiments). If the original claims are not verified the origin of such discrepancies is hunted down and exhaustively studied.

When studying the cosmos we cannot perform experiments; all information is obtained from observations and measurements. Theories are then devised by extracting some regularity in the observations and coding this into physical laws.

There is a very important characteristic of a scientific theory or hypothesis which differentiates it from, for example, an act of faith: a theory must be ``falsifiable''. This means that there must be some experiment or possible discovery that could prove the theory untrue. For example, Einstein's theory of Relativity made predictions about the results of experiments. These experiments could have produced results that contradicted Einstein, so the theory was (and still is) falsifiable.

In contrast, the theory that ``the moon is populated by little green men who can read our minds and will hide whenever anyone on Earth looks for them, and will flee into deep space whenever a spacecraft comes near'' is not falsifiable: these green men are designed so that no one can ever see them. On the other hand, the theory that there are no little green men on the moon is scientific: you can disprove it by catching one. Similar arguments apply to abominable snow-persons, UFOs and the Loch Ness Monster(s?).

A frequent criticism made of the scientific method is that it cannot accommodate anything that has not been proved. The argument then points out that many things thought to be impossible in the past are now everyday realities. This criticism is based on a misinterpretation of the scientific method. When a hypothesis passes the test it is adopted as a theory it correctly explains a range of phenomena it can, at any time, be falsified by new experimental evidence. When exploring a new set or phenomena scientists do use existing theories but, since this is a new area of investigation, it is always kept in mind that the old theories might fail to explain the new experiments and observations. In this case new hypotheses are devised and tested until a new theory emerges.

There are many types of ``pseudo-scientific'' theories which wrap themselves in a mantle of apparent experimental evidence but that, when examined closely, are nothing but statements of faith. The argument [*], cited by some creationists, that science is just another kind of faith is a philosophic stance which ignores the trans-cultural nature of science. Science's theory of gravity explains why both creationists and scientists don't float off the earth. All you have to do is jump to verify this theory - no leap of faith required.

http://physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node6.html
 
Yazata said:
They do say, "Misconception: There is a single Scientific Method that all scientists follow."

The larger context for the pages that DMOE linked to is appearance of the new national "Framework for K-12 Science Teaching" in the United States.
Right: so is anyone here a K-12 science student? Certainly, most of what K-12 students learn is simplifications and certainly many of those children don't know it and therefore have misconceptions that they learned everything. Much of that is just the naivete that comes with being a child. But none of that applies here: No one beyond high school - much less anyone with a scientific background - has a good excuse for having such a misconception. And certainly no one here does have it.

Then to the specifics of what that no "single scientific method" means, Trippy (again, for the dozenth time) explains it in great detail. But in short: there are an infinite number of small variations in the application of the scientific method. It isn't and isn't meant to be-one-size-fits-all. So in the context of this thread, the active misconceptions are:
1. That some people think there are adults (specifically, on this forum) who think the scientific method is one-size-fits-all.
2. That some people think the scientific method purports to be one-size-fits-all.
3. That the fact that the Scientific Method is not one-size-fits-all means there are other specific methods and in general usage the term Scientific Method should have an "s" after it.

Indeed, neither that link nor DMOE himself list any specific alternative methods* and any such alternative method would inevitably suffer from the same imagined flaw DMOE thinks he sees in the scientific method: the infinite number of potential variations. So it isn't meaningful to say "The Scientific Methods" because the variations are already covered by "The Scientific Method" and no coherent, useful alternative methods exist.

*Heck, in DMOE's doctor example, he demonstrates his own flaw by utilizing the actual Scientific Method as the framework of the example!
 
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