Is Stephen Hawking right or not?

. . . Remember . . . It will take ALL OF US . . . . to root-out the 'true' scientific truths . . . this includes Pincho, Farsight, AN, Origin, Stonphi, AlexG, etc. . . . yes . . . and even ME!

Hmmm.... 7 people on your list. One is almost certifiably insane. One is self-deluded with an overblown ego. One has demonstrated some ability to spot a crank but little actual scientific ability of his own. One is, as far as I can tell, an interested amateur. One I haven't seen enough from to judge. One has a mind so open that his brains are likely to fall out.

That leaves one who seems qualified to me to root out scientific truths.
 
Hmmm.... 7 people on your list. One is almost certifiably insane. One is self-deluded with an overblown ego. One has demonstrated some ability to spot a crank but little actual scientific ability of his own. One is, as far as I can tell, an interested amateur. One I haven't seen enough from to judge. One has a mind so open that his brains are likely to fall out.

That leaves one who seems qualified to me to root out scientific truths.

Thank you! :)
 
He isn't really a string theorist, more a general relativist.

There's a difference between being fundamentally untestable, like the proposition 'God exists', and being untestable due to technological issues. We can't test plenty of things in QCD yet but it's still science. String theory does say things about phenomena we can test. For example, string theory says specific things about the behaviour of gravity, specifically that gravity should be carried by massless particles and obey the Einstein field equations at large distances. If string theory had spit out any equations other than the Einstein field equations it would be immediately falsified.

There's no 'laws' against multiple universes.

As pointed out, your statement is unscientific because it's baseless. And your $$10^{500}$$ number comes from string theory, which you don't consider science either. And the $$10^{500}$$ number isn't how many universes string theory says exist. I've already explained it in this thread, it's the number of possible solutions to particular equations space-time structures in string theory have to obey, just like cubic equations have 3 solutions. There's infinitely many different metrics which obey the Einstein field equations but that doesn't mean GR predicts infinitely many universes. Furthermore, while there's $$10^{500}$$ possible vacuum states which solve the relevant equations under a naive counting that doesn't mean they are all different physical systems. Many of them are just rewritten versions of one another under dualities, in a more complex but conceptually similar notion to changing coordinates in GR doesn't change the physics.

You have absolutely no grounds to say "2 universes is not allowed, there should be more" or to use the $$10^{500}$$ number from string theory in that manner.

Furthermore, if you talk about 'alternative universes' in the context of 3 dimensional slices (ie D3-branes in string theory) of some larger space then if those can have signatures. Branes near to one another can exchange gravitational effects so you can see a gravitational signature of material not in our universe. Or the branes can even collide, causing a very obvious signature in the sky. In fact people have even constructed cosmological models where our 3 dimensional 'slice' is formed in the decay products of some things much larger and higher dimensional colliding in a 'larger universe'. String vacuum dynamics and brane cosmology are considered as interesting areas of research for cosmologists because they naturally incorporate components otherwise shoe horned into cosmological models like inflaton fields, reheating, flatness and dark energy. Even in models where it is obvious it isn't going to be how the real world works they provide useful insight into otherwise difficult to examine processes.

String theory has done that in other areas. Gluon-gluon processes are some of the most dominant processes in the LHC right now but they are difficult to do using Feynman diagrams. Within string theory someone (Witten) developed a method to resum pure massless gauge field processes, which led to a method called MHV. The string theory origins then fell away and left a method no one would have otherwise constructed. It's a completely different way of computing gluon dynamics from Feynman diagrams. Or an even bigger contribution to our understanding of gauge theory is gravity/gauge duality. Motivated by string theory examples it's now seen as something independent of string theory, something which string theory provides examples of but which can be explored even if someone killed string theory tomorrow. It's told us a lot about how gauge theories work in strongly coupled regimes like those at the centre of neutron stars, ie quark-gluon plasmas.

As always Reiku, get your facts right before opening your mouth.

Of course I have grounds for saying that only two universes cannot exist. In fact, Fred Alan Wolf in his book on Parallel Universes even says that two universes would create an oxymoron, scientists just knew that two universes couldn't exist but rather there was an infinity of them.

Secondly, I would have thought the use of the string theory landscape 10^500 would have made sense in the context I gave it, since Hawking is using the model.

Thirdly, I don't care what you think about string theory. It is not a science.
 
Hmmm.... 7 people on your list. One is almost certifiably insane. One is self-deluded with an overblown ego. One has demonstrated some ability to spot a crank but little actual scientific ability of his own. One is, as far as I can tell, an interested amateur. One I haven't seen enough from to judge. One has a mind so open that his brains are likely to fall out.

That leaves one who seems qualified to me to root out scientific truths.

SorryI left you out James . . . . in order to conserve Sciforum cyberspace, I employed the use of "ETC!!" . . . et cetera . . . meaning "and so on". The 'etc' was supposed to embue the viewers with the impression that the list was not at all comprehensive and includes others . . . including you, by the way . . . . all the way 'up' through our most distiguished and accomplished past and current (and future) scientists. Again, take heart . . . YOU are on the the 'complete' list.
 
Since Reiku and AN are discussing string theory . . . has anyone ever suggested that strings may present as twisted structures . . . not unlike DNA helices? . . . h-h-h-m-m - m-m-m . . . echoes of 'recapitulation theory' here . . .?? . . . . kinda off-topic . . .a referential thread would be helpful . . .
 
The idea of infinite universes is analogous to the concept of heaven, but within physics. It is assumed to exist but nobody has ever seen it nor can it be proven. Yet, it is protected under the cloak of science even though in another breath they will preach that science demands proof. There is a dual standard. This belief in other universes requires faith, which of itself might be positive.
 
Since Reiku and AN are discussing string theory . . . has anyone ever suggested that strings may present as twisted structures . . . not unlike DNA helices? . . . h-h-h-m-m - m-m-m . . . echoes of 'recapitulation theory' here . . .?? . . . . kinda off-topic . . .a referential thread would be helpful . . .

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Previous wlminex post revisited (re: Recapitulation Theory) . . . . . might this structure be incorporated into string theory topology? . . . . or, perhaps how to agglomerate quarks via gluons? . . . or??? . . . slanting toward 'off-topic here . . . this might deserve a separate thread? . . . in pseuodscience or alternative theories . . .
 
I am not sure if I believe in string theology. Is the god of string theology sort of like a puppet master that controls the universe? Has anyone ever seen his strings?
 
I am not sure if I believe in string theology. Is the god of string theology sort of like a puppet master that controls the universe? Has anyone ever seen his strings?

Nope. They are proposed to be so small, that even current technology could not test their existences.
 
In other words, Hawking doesn't know what he's talking about because he contradicts your belief system.

That's not what I meant. What I meant is that science is still very young and can't provide all the answers. Hawking thinks that science already has all the answers while I think is that it clearly doesn't. At least not yet.

It is quite possible that science will defeat religion eventually but it will take another millions of years from now before it will able to do so.
 
Of course I have grounds for saying that only two universes cannot exist. In fact, Fred Alan Wolf in his book on Parallel Universes even says that two universes would create an oxymoron, scientists just knew that two universes couldn't exist but rather there was an infinity of them.
So other than your favourite Fred Wolfe in a pop science book can you provide any justification?

Secondly, I would have thought the use of the string theory landscape 10^500 would have made sense in the context I gave it, since Hawking is using the model.
It has nothing to do with a prediction/statement about the number of universes in a possible multiverse.

Thirdly, I don't care what you think about string theory. It is not a science.
You don't care what I think about GR or QED, given how much you ignore corrections on them. I'm not surprised you don't want to listen to even more advanced stuff.

James R:

Hint: Your not qualified to know.
I find it ironic you say that when you don't even use you're properly.

. might this structure be incorporated into string theory topology? . . . . or, perhaps how to agglomerate quarks via gluons? .
Do you deliberately just throw out words you don't know the meaning of or do you think you're actually forming coherent sentences?

. . . Remember . . . It will take ALL OF US . . . . to root-out the 'true' scientific truths . . . this includes Pincho, Farsight, AN, Origin, Stonphi, AlexG, etc. . . . yes . . . and even ME! It's NOT a 'pissing' match to see who is the worthier, most educated, most intelligent, etc., etc. . . . EVERYONE has an ante in this game (and it's NOT strip-poker <--humor here)!! Re: "Civility, Please!" thread
If you think people like Pincho and Farsight have anything to contribute then you only demonstrate how little you grasp how science is done. When someone, such as Pincho, is deliberately dishonest then it completely removes them from contributing to anything scientific. Even if he were to occasionally say something worth listening to (which hasn't happened yet) it would be lost in the noise. That's part of the problem with exaggerating claims to the point of being ridiculous, no one will listen to you after that even if you have something worthwhile to say.
 
So other than your favourite Fred Wolfe in a pop science book can you provide any justification?

It has nothing to do with a prediction/statement about the number of universes in a possible multiverse.

You don't care what I think about GR or QED, given how much you ignore corrections on them. I'm not surprised you don't want to listen to even more advanced stuff.

I find it ironic you say that when you don't even use you're properly.

Do you deliberately just throw out words you don't know the meaning of or do you think you're actually forming coherent sentences?

If you think people like Pincho and Farsight have anything to contribute then you only demonstrate how little you grasp how science is done. When someone, such as Pincho, is deliberately dishonest then it completely removes them from contributing to anything scientific. Even if he were to occasionally say something worth listening to (which hasn't happened yet) it would be lost in the noise. That's part of the problem with exaggerating claims to the point of being ridiculous, no one will listen to you after that even if you have something worthwhile to say.

More dishonest lies from AN. tut tut, he is the evil emperor. There is something evil about science when you look how defensive the priesthood is.
 
"One should not trust human conjecture any farther than one throw's dice."
--keith1
 
If dice have the possibility to end up in such a timespace location that even a god could not see them, then the god could not be omni-present, omnipotent, nor be considered as valid.
(Just take the gist from Hawking, and disregard my long form).
 
Well are you qualified in Pinchoism? Because that's what you would need to know to be qualified.
If your behaviour and claims are demonstrations of someone qualified in 'Pinchoism' then I would imagine James is not qualified in it, he's rational.

More dishonest lies from AN. tut tut, he is the evil emperor. There is something evil about science when you look how defensive the priesthood is.
What did I lie about? I care about honesty and dislike people being deceptive, especially when they do it knowingly. You and Reiku have both shown such behaviour.

For example, you like to claim how all your 'results' come from just 1+(-1)=0. I've repeatedly explained to you how you make vast amounts of assumptions if that's the case, because even the definition of a sphere involves considerably more mathematics than 1+(-1)=0. You have ignored this.

I'm not defensive because to be defensive I would have to feel threatened. Not a single hack I have ever encountered online has made me feel in the slightest bit threatened. It says more about you than it does me that you presume I or any other physicist would feel threatened by people who are smarter than us. I work with a number of people smarter and more informed with me. I have a great many friends who I have no problems saying are smarter than me. Part of my job is to pitch new ideas and have them challenged, I really enjoy doing it. So even if I thought that you or Reiku or anyone else were onto something or smarter than me when it comes to physics and mathematics (I don't believe you nor Reiku are, if you must know) I wouldn't be defensive because I wouldn't find it threatening. For example, I think Guest is smarter than me in an number of areas I consider myself pretty decent at. I don't find him threatening, in fact what interactions we do have seem to go pretty well here.

The reaction of people like Reiku or Farsight when they are shown to be wrong in something is considerably worse than the reaction people like myself, Prom or Rpenner give when we're mistaken about something. And none of us have to lie about our work, it can speak for itself. In the cases of you and Farsight you believe yourself more insightful/knowledgeable than literally the entire planet. In Reiku's case he's not making quite the same level of claims but he's still not being completely honest.
 
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