Is midnight today or tomorrow?

Write4U said:
I specifically qualified it as an arbitrary moment, and only compared its duration of change to a quantum moment, which as far as I know, is an even smaller time interval than the caesium time standard, which for human purposes is the most accurate time standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caesium_standard

It seemed theoretically appropriate to go just a little deeper. Just trying to keep it simple.
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But we don't need to measure durations in order to define zero-duration events.

It's like saying what's the distance between the first foot and the second foot on a yardstick? We don't need a subatomic ruler.

The distance is not "very small". It is zero. Exactly.
 
DaveC426913 said:
But we don't need to measure durations in order to define zero-duration events.

It's like saying what's the distance between the first foot and the second foot on a yardstick? We don't need a subatomic ruler.

The distance is not "very small". It is zero. Exactly.
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I disagree. IMO, time is an emergent property along with the unfolding of the fabric of space, which is not infinitely fast.
 
DaveC426913 said:
How does that change anything?

Space is not infinitely long, yet there is still a zero distance.
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I disagree. A quantum event is a definitive change of state and time emerges as a byproduct. Without space there is no time. If Space is not infinitely long then Time is not infinitely short either.
 
This is a small time scale which appears to be continuous, but still consists of discrete units.
Planck scale expresses the region in which the predictions of the Standard Model of quantum field theory and of general relativity are no longer reconcilable, and quantum effects of gravity are expected to dominate. This region may be characterized by energies around 7009195465531414000♠1.22×1019 GeV (the Planck energy), time intervals around 6956538999999999999♠5.39×10−44 s (the Planck time) and lengths around 6965162000000000000♠1.62×10−35 m (the Planck length).
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and
Time is the indefinite continued progress of existence and events that occur in apparently irreversible succession from the past through the present to the future.[1][2][3] Time is a component quantity of various measurements used to sequence events, to compare the duration of events or the intervals between them, and to quantify rates of change of quantities in material reality or in the conscious experience
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On the Greenwich meridian where West meets East, How big is the gap between?
How wide is a line down the centre of the sun's disk?
It's zero in both cases I think for the purpose of time keeping (olden days of course).
 
dsdsds said:
It's probably neither (and both). But what is the standard, if any, if one is writing a contract? If I want something to expire on midnight between March 11 and March 12, how is it defined?

0h00 2009-03-12 ?
24h00 2009-03-11 ?
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That would be an equation ; 24h00 2009-03-11 = 0h00 2009-03-12

Question is can you have a zero measurement of time?
 
DaveC426913 said:
Yes.

Midnight.
1PM
2:47EST.
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That's nicely circular....:biggrin:

can there ever be zero time or is an interval always greater than zero?
If a single moment in time equals zero, then we get t 0 + t 0 + t 0 ....... = 14.7 billion years ?
 
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DaveC426913 said:
But we don't need to measure durations in order to define zero-duration events.

It's like saying what's the distance between the first foot and the second foot on a yardstick? We don't need a subatomic ruler.

The distance is not "very small". It is zero. Exactly.
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What is the distance in a quantum change? Distance = Time
 
sideshowbob said:
Ever hear of calculus?
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Yep.
Calculus (from Latin calculus, literally "small pebble used for counting on an abacus")[1] is the mathematical study of continuous change, in the same way that geometry is the study of shape and algebra is the study of generalizations of arithmetic operations.
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Always dealing with real values, always other than zero. The use of zero is a handy tool, but it does not exist.... out there..... as a causal value.
What's the result of this mathematical function; {(1 + 0 - 0) x 0}/0 = ??

Kant denies that either space or time are substance, entities in themselves, or learned by experience; he holds, rather, that both are elements of a systematic framework we use to structure our experience. Spatial measurements are used to quantify how far apart objects are, and temporal measurements are used to quantitatively compare the interval between (or duration of) events. Although space and time are held to be transcendentally ideal in this sense, they are also empirically real—that is, not mere illusions.
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Write4U said:
Question is can you have a zero measurement of time?
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Given my long held belief, in numerous post over a range of threads, that TIME does not exist it would, to me, to follow the answer would be YES

None existence of TIME must mean you cannot have ANY measurement of TIME
which would include even a zero measurement

Although the question appears contradictory

IF you don't TRY to measure time does that count as a zero measurement of TIME?

After all if you haven't tried you cannot get any measurement ergo that equates to a zero measurement

Or is it you DO try measure time but find nothing hence you DO have a zero measurement?

Arguing with myself like Humpty must mean is coffee time :)

:)
 
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Michael 345 said:
Given my long held belief, in numerous post over a range of threads, that TIME does not exist it would, to me, to follow the answer would be YES

None existence of TIME must mean you cannot have ANY measurement of TIME
which would include even a zero measurement

Although the question appears contradictory

IF you don't TRY to measure time does that count as a zero measurement of TIME?

After all if you haven't got any measurement ergo that equates to a zero measurement

Or is it you DO try measure time but find nothing hence you DO have a zero measurement

Arguing with myself like Humpty must mean is coffee time
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I agree with you, time itself is not measurable, it is a result of measuring the duration of something in reality. It's completely variable, from 14.7 billion years to a quantum moment (see above). LOL, there just too many numbers for my 3 neuron brain...:biggrin:
 
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