is it true that the quran says jesus didnt really die on the cross?

Try "Who Wrote the New Testament?" by Mack.

It is a scholarly book though, NOT a religious text, so you are going to be struck with science and facts rather than religious fervor. :eek:

Jesus the Palestinian was a Pharisee who ran 3 'Jesus Schools' that taught traditional practical knowledge - like where to put the well in relation to the community toilet when establishing a settlement. After the fall of Masada, the remnants of the 'christ cult' joined up with the 'Jesus schools' to survive the Roman crackdown.

Constantine and his mom censored and edited the New Testament to pretty much its present form while executing their book burning campaign to usher in the Dark Ages. There is a great passage in the text concerning how she walked through Jerusalem trailing monks and nuns, pointing out places that she figured were the sacred places mentioned in the religious texts. As she went on pointing these out, a monk or nun would stop and mark its location for future religious use.

So was the historical Jesus actually a "carpenter"? Lots of forests in Palestine were there? Lots of buildings made of wood? I haven't seen many of those there. :confused: Stone though, lots of it. That would then make it more probable that he was a mason then, wouldn't it?

Romans, like the Egyptians, kept very detailed written records or important events, like public executions. No record of Jesus the Palestinian being executed though. Also, conquered peoples were not Roman citizens and as such did not pay Roman taxes. There was no census taken of non Roman citizens as there was no need, though if there had been one it would have been recorded in official records, which it was not. :hmm:

Guess I shouldn't even mention that the actual people who built the pyramids were skilled Egyptian laborers who were paid for their work, lived, died and were buried in a special pyramid workers city at the work site. We have found their city and their bodies. No Jewish slave laborers to lead out of slavery while killing Pharaoh Ramses ll at the tender young age of 32 either. He made it to 93 by written historic records. Guess the Torah writers missed that bit, eh?

If I had to choose between the written Qumran texts, Roman & Egyptian records and a bunch of hand-me-down oral tradition heavily censored religious books put together by folks with an agenda to push, I would have to forgo the religious stuff in favor of the official records.

However, your' mileage may differ. :)

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into this.
 
whether or not if jesus actually existed, the writer of quran believes he did. and that god made it look like he died. im surprised there is a religion that believes that god deceives people
 
Should he be the Trickster or Coyote, the Loki archetype is in every culture. A remnant of a collective conscience, perhaps?
 
Should he be the Trickster or Coyote, the Loki archetype is in every culture. A remnant of a collective conscience, perhaps?
There's something vaguely Freudian about admitting that you can't always trust your gods.
 
whether or not if jesus actually existed, the writer of quran believes he did. and that god made it look like he died. im surprised there is a religion that believes that god deceives people

A good point. Many try to say that Allah and God are the same deity, but if one says Jesus is part of the trinity and the says not so, then that is a critical disagreement. Do we have a case of serious schizophrenia or is it really dueling deities? At least one or both are not being honest with us. Feels like a showdown is approaching. In the first phase the God-ites tried to exterminate the Allah-rites, and lost, i.e. the crusades, now it is the ISIS led Allah-rites turn to fight back.

Just seems to be a lot of human death throughout for no good reason.
 
I have no problem believing that Jesus is part of the trinity. Its like when you divide water into parts. Each portion is just a part of the whole. Each portion is still 100% water. Read this reply with the word water switched out for god.
 
There's something vaguely Freudian about admitting that you can't always trust your gods.

More than vague, I think. Gods are a product of fears and stupidity. Freud was a self-appointed expert on both.

I don't have that problem, since I don't have any gods.
 
I believe you can come to a conclusion that god exists without any emotions attached. I suspect those people who are so adamantly opposed to this ideal are just trying to troll people that believe god exists, but thats just me.
 
As I recall, there is a sensation that originates from within our temporal lobe that generates feelings/thoughts/sensations that we are in the presence of a "spirit" or that such a thing is out there and we can somehow sense that. I have felt this, though I am a Buddhist by philosophy and an atheist - don't believe in spirits. fMRI's done on people meditating and other people praying show that these activities activate opposite temporal lobes and generate similar but slightly differing sensations and thought patterns. The one tends to make one feel as one with everything - a part of the whole, the other makes one feel as though they were in the presence of something that is all or everything - a god.

I note that ISIL flies the black flag, NOT the crescent moon and star. Orthodox Islam has disowned them, their followers appear to be disaffected and violent individuals drawn from all over the world. I perceive the face of chaos and confusion behind a very well - organized criminal for - profit operation. While they claim to be Sunni, I suspect that is propaganda for the masses. The Rolex said it all.
 
many people have come to a conclusion that god exists. are these people all thinking with fear and stupidity?
Maybe. Anyway, that's an argument from popularity. It makes no difference how many people believe something without evidence, it's the evidence that's important.
 
I believe you can come to a conclusion that god exists without any emotions attached. I suspect those people who are so adamantly opposed to this ideal are just trying to troll people that believe god exists, but thats just me.
Many injustices are done in the name of God. Opposing this belief is more than just trolling, it's an important issue.
 
thats good if injustices are being done in the name of god, but what about just people stating that they believe in god on a forum, are they doing injustice to anyone?
 
if you are harassing someone because of their beliefs how are you any different from religious zealots who harass people for non belief?
 
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