spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
It sounded like you were making a sweeping generalization about all illegal drugs. I don't deny that you're rule is probably correct for narcotics and stimulants.
Is illegal drug use immoral?
- Thread starter John J. Bannan
- Start date
It sounded like you were making a sweeping generalization about all illegal drugs. I don't deny that you're rule is probably correct for narcotics and stimulants.
Crack is not a hallucinogen; it's a narcotic.
Neither shrooms, nor acid are addictive.
Dammit Goat. I wasn't quick enough!!!
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I dont think any of the drugs you mention should be legalised. Pot is mild so it really is nothing like any of the ones you mention. There are a lot of downsides to regular use, one being that is causes you to react to the simplest things in an over exaggerated way and it messes with your head....but it is mild and as far as i know causes no lasting damage.
They are very much alike in that they alter reality and preception, would you want the person driving your kid to school underestimating the time it would take to get straight from that last hit of LSD or mushroom they ate? or somone drifting into your lane and hitting you head on etc..
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
The issue of our birthright as human beings to explore our own consciousness should not center around the ability to operate a motor vehicle. I wouldn't want someone driving that was having sex or juggling, either.
John J. Bannan
Registered Senior Member
What have you ever learned by "exploring" your consciousness that helped you in the least bit?
Not everyone is a responsible drug user:shrug:
I will ask you this:
Would you want your daughter to go on a hiking trip with 6 guys tripping on acid? Who knows what would happen. How about angel dust isnt that a hallucinogen?
Legalizing will increase the propensity of using, with one simple line 'come on its legal'...then before you know it it is knees behind the ears time.
"Legalized" does not mean "Take it whenever and wherever you want". Any legalization would have to follow the same rules and regulations as alcohol currently does. Drugs I would legalize include pot, LSD, mushrooms, DMT, peyote and ecstasy. Only a select few should remain fully illegal, like meth and heroin. The rest should be decriminalized
Would you let your daughter go on a hiking trip with 6 guys piss drunk on alcohol?
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
If you could be taught through dialogue, no one would have to resort to any consciousness-expanding technique.
Roughly, it's that ordinary consciousness is a reduction of all that can be percieved and thought at any one time.
Culture plays a big part in shaping perception, teaching an arbitrary heirarchy of what's important and what's not.
...and more.
Roughly, it's that ordinary consciousness is a reduction of all that can be percieved and thought at any one time.
Culture plays a big part in shaping perception, teaching an arbitrary heirarchy of what's important and what's not.
...and more.
John J. Bannan
Registered Senior Member
This doesn't sound particularly helpful. A bit of philosophical mumbo jumbo. I need something better than that.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Maybe you need to actually do it. Talking about it is usually nothing like the actual experience. It's how religion was practiced for the tens of thousands of years before we had stuff like civilization and war.
oh, ok we will decriminalize just the ones you say.
No way would i trust even a german shephard with six guys piss drunk, that is not the point though.
Alcohol serves a medicinal purpose as far as thinning blood and realxing people but i dont care for it myself. But it is easier to understand the dangers one drug (Alcohol) than 40 different powder, pills, mushroome etc.
The question was what has helped HIM, not what would help YOU. "Consciousness expansion" is as subjective as religion, it's very hard to quantify the benefits to another person, especially if that person has never touched a drug of any sort. To put it simply, language fails. There are no words to convey it, either you've experienced it or you haven't.
I said if it were up to me, obviously it wouldn't be. But I didn't just pick some drugs out of the air, those are by far the least dangerous substances in the bunch.
Alcohol is also one of the only drugs, legal or not, that is a full on poison as far as your body is concerned. It's one of the most harmful drugs out there, yet we're fine with it.
The great thing about legalization is that you wouldn't have you understand the dangers of all 40 or whatever drugs, you could simply ask about what you buy from someone who actually knows what they're talking about in a government regulated store instead of some douche on the street.
oh, ok we will decriminalize just the ones you say.
No way would i trust even a german shephard with six guys piss drunk, that is not the point though.
That's exactly the point. In either case, they are drugs. Alcohol is a drug, just like LSD (which does open your mind and allows you to think out of the box), just like E, which was originally intended as a truth syrum, and was being examined as a mood enhancer/anti-depressant.
Like someone else said, Native Americans have been using peyote for hundreds, even thousands of years. They never had any issues with it.
And you're not going to sit there and tell me, or anyone else that alcohol is sooo much better than any other substance. It's just as damaging when used in excess as anything else.
You ask if something is immoral, and categorize the answers as philosophical mumbo jumbo? What kind of non- philosophical answers would you expect for the definition of immoral?
Depends how much you allow the drug to control you and effect the people around you I suppose. Immoral? Firstly who's defining what's moral and what isn't is the first question that comes to mind. If limitations by what can and can't be done by law is your moral standard then by all means anything considered illegal is immoral.
spidergoat
Valued Senior Member
Not all insight is necessarily helpful. It can be troubling. I don't know who said this but: "It is not a sign of good mental health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick world".
Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he
finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes
troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."
The Gospel of Thomas, Vs. 2
I think this subject needs some actual scientific testing. When I get off work...I'll go home and get baked..and report back if it changed my morality. :m:
:m:Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
You have selected from the wide range of ways we alter our personalities illegal drugs. I am checking to see if you are consistant. You are upset that they 'change personalities for the worse' (my paraphrase). Are you concerned about the legal ways we do this OR HAVE YOU BOUGHT INTO the idea that these 'drugs' are worse or stronger or more effective or more addictive than the legal options. My guess is that you have a very conventional way of looking at things. This guess could be wrong, let me know. If it turns out that you have bought the propaganda AND more importantly the implicit propaganda that legal substances and activities are not so bad, then we can address your moral question. It seems like you want to view these substances as 'bad' and users as being 'immoral'. If so you may have to look at activities that you, your loved ones and people you respect engage in as also being immoral since these have the same potential as illegal drugs. People who are judgemental about illegal drug use tend to look down on users not noticing the ways in which they are addicted and how their addictions change their personalities for the worse and cause suffering.
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
Are you sure you are capable of taking in the information you seem to be seeking or are your questions really statements (Illegal drug users are immoral) and so you find the discussion that ensues irritating because people are not agreeing with your statement of 'truth'.
In other words it seems to me the format of your posts is exploratory
but
your attitude is final and closed.
Then the thread has cross purposes and you confuse your readers who think (at least briefly) that you are looking for something new with an open mind.