davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
The tree of knowledge is everything? Do you mean "the tree of knowledge of good and evil? The morality tree?
Good and evil is everything.
The tree of knowledge is everything? Do you mean "the tree of knowledge of good and evil? The morality tree?
That'll work for the lions for about 3 days.It shows how possible it is for animals not killing each other.
Objectively, I can't agree with that . Only humans are aware of the difference between good and evil, but human are by no means necessary for nature to thrive without human morals. This does not mean nature has no moral code.Good and evil is everything.
Nature has no code - periodnature has no moral code.
Nature has it's own morality, natural selection
need a moral code
natural laws
harmony with nature
Deadly India Heat Wave Temperature Reaches 123 Degrees in Second-Driest Pre-Monsoon Spell in 65 YearsI hate the wind, what's your worse weather? raining and windy for me.
It does have order, no? That's a code by any name. A pattern.Nature has no code - period
Of course it is. Natural selection is a probabilistic mathematical function.Natural selection is not a code
Yes, a codified legal moral code.NO - more a legal framework
Yes, universal constants which rule reality.natural laws = umm physics?
Well, it's a matter of degree, no? For humans harmony with nature means something entirely different than harmony with nature for other organisms. When things flourish they are in harmony with their natural environment.harmony with nature = no such animal
Ever listened to the symphony of life on a summer evening in the forest? I have, and absorbing the sounds and rhythms in the chorus of forest love songs, each written in a little different language, at that time I felt in complete harmony with nature.a harmonious state of things in general and of their properties (as of colors and sounds); congruity of parts with one another and with the whole
W4U be like: "Of course it is. The territory is the map."Of course it is. Natural selection is a probabilistic mathematical function.
What are you talking about? Natural Selection does not recognize territory, nor maps. It is a statistical accounting of mathematical survival probabilities in relationship to adaption (be in harmony) with one's environment.W4U be like: "Of course it is. The territory is the map."
Correct NOIt does have order, no? That's a code by any name.
Of course it is. Natural selection is a probabilistic mathematical function.
Yes, a codified legal moral code.
Yes, universal constants which rule reality.
Well, it's a matter of degree
Are we ready to deal with the consequences in human culling on a global scale?
Global warming is a "face in the clouds"? I believe human observation has weather related data in some greater detail than "a face in the clouds"Correct NO
It just IS, if order is seen = faces in clouds
I wonder how 95% of all organisms that ever lived are now extinct and what patterns their extinctions followed. So far the earth has experienced five extinction events and we are currently in the sixth (man-made) extinction event.No rules in natural selection = no code
I agree.Just a legal framework, aimed at providing a level playing field (nice thought but unattainable) with, generally, adverse consequences for those breaking the law
I agree.It is possible to live a completely legal life, but looked at buy others as being totally immoral
I agreeHence the saying "It might be legal but it is not moral"
Correct, hence our Global Warming dilemma. All very humanly legal but hopelessly immoral on the scale of natural virtue. What is the earth supposed to when there is major artificial disturbance in its ecosystem, such as the release of billions of years of sequestered CO2 from oil and coal back into the atmosphere in the span of a few centuries.Morals are laws you have when you don't have laws and exist in minds and not enforceable
That's the wrong context. Physics are the explication of orderly values and functions in accordance to several mathematical constants. E = Mc^2 is a mathematical physical equation, regardless of any form of symbolic codification. It truly is that way.Don't think physics have any concept of rule
Again you are focusing on human perspectives. But human observations and perspectives are still reflections of that which already exists in a natural abstract form and potential. Potential is an expression of mathematical probability. The Universe needs not know any of this. It just functions that way, naturally, by the constant of Cause and Effect as well as the law of Necessity and Sufficiency.I understand the meaning in everyday chatter but some language, to me, is tinted with my arch enemy, anthropomorphism
Yes you do. You listen to certain types of music and specific songs because the wave harmonics and maybe the lyrics agree with your internal standing wave.I might be about how well (the degree) the orchestra is tuned, but I don't really buy it
You have just summed up universal evolution in a nutshell.The orchestra is always in flux with musicians coming and going and even new instruments being constructed on the fly (give ½ point for that observation )
Indeed, a true probabilistic mathematical expression.Que Sera Sera https://g.co/kgs/V4rT1k
What are you talking about?
= territoryNatural Selection
= mapstatistical accounting of mathematical survival probabilities
What you just don't seem to accept is that statistics, accounting, and symbolic representation are based on RW events.= territory
= map
Once again, you mistake our mathematical model of the thing for the thing itself.
It's almost like you're asserting that statistics, accounting, and probabilities are real things in nature.
Of course they are. Of course I get that.What you just don't seem to accept is that statistics, accounting, and symbolic representation are based on RW events.
Agree.The mathematical model is a codified reflection of real natural events.
Agree.The point is, human representation is not required for the existence of reality.
Of course they are. Of course I get that.
But the rock as a natural object IS. It has all the properties of what we call a "rock".Look. The 4-letter word "rock" is based on there being real rocks.
But it does not follow that the 4-letter word "rock" is "part of nature".
A human symbolic word is not part of nature. What the terms symbolize are the actual observable and measurable occurrences that ARE physically observable or predictable as objective physical phenomena which may or may not become expressed in reality.Because we model the world with mathematical tools of statistics, accounting and probability does not therefore mean those things are literally part of nature.
And it IS in its own right.But then you go on to say
"Natural selection is a probabilistic mathematical function."
"It is a statistical accounting of mathematical survival probabilities in relationship to adaption (be in harmony) with one's environment." [/quote] yes, if there are 200 of something and half of them are destroyed then there are only 100 left (half of the original numbers). It makes no difference if the universe knows this or not. It is just a fact, as counted and codified by humans. Six of one in one language = Half a dozen in another language. The language changes, the relative mathematical "values" do not.
Yes and if the description is accurate enough it describes the natural functions which ARE in fact observable.When what you should have said was
"Natural selection can be described by a probabilistic mathematical function."
and
"It can be described by a statistical accounting of mathematical survival probabilities in relationship to adaption (be in harmony) with one's environment."
Correct this time.
Yes and if the description is accurate enough it describes the natural functions which ARE observable.
Yes, I need you to direct me to the two posts where I said what you just attributed to me saying.Correct this time.
(The mathematical tools of stats, accounting and probability) describe nature.
What you said before, twice, is:
(The mathematical tools of stats, accounting and probability) are nature.
(I won't quote you again, unless you need me to.)
*sigh*Yes, I need you to direct me to the two posts where I said what you just attributed to me saying.
Natural selection is a probabilistic mathematical function.
... it [Natural Selection] is a statistical accounting of mathematical survival probabilities in relationship to adaption (be in harmony) with one's environment.