Is consciousness to be found in quantum processes in microtubules?

[Write4U]

↑
Based on the Physical Properties of the Constituent Parts , which are Fundamentally , Physical . The Periodic Table is First a Physical based table of Real Physical Elements . It is not based on mathematics , at all , period .

The three fundamental non-physical elementals of the physical world, do in fact have relational values even tho they are technically not physical in essense.. The wave function is a non-physical guiding algorithm and has no physical existence in and of itself. Yet it governs the dynamics of physical motion.

What is wave function collapse? Is it a physical event?

In one view, a wave function is a piece of math, an equation. It’s not a physical thing. So, it can’t collapse in any physical sense. The collapse is metaphorical. This is one interpretation of quantum mechanics. It’s the interpretation taught in most university classes, the Copenhagen Interpretation. However, physicists have not settled on a particular interpretation. For more nuance, see the later section “Caveat—Other Interpretations of Quantum Mechanics.”

So, a spread-out physical electron wave collapses down to a tiny physical particle? No, it doesn’t.

The electron collapses down to a tiny physical particle, all right. But, according to the in the Copenhagen Interpretation, there was never any physical electron wave. The waviness of the electron prior to detection was never physical in the sense that tables and chairs are physical. If there is a wavy electron, it’s no more physical than a mathematical expression.

http://www.quantumphysicslady.org/what-is-wave-function-collapse-is-it-a-physical-event/#

Yet the wave function controls (shapes) the dynamical physical expressions. The Explicate (Bohm).

What Are Elementary Particles?
By Adam Mann May 07, 2019

• 
  
  

Fundamental particles called quarks come in six different flavors. Protons are made of two up quarks and one down quark, while neutrons contain two down quarks and one up quark.
(Image: © MichaelTaylor | Shutterstock)

Elementary particles are the smallest known building blocks of the universe. They are thought to have no internal structure, meaning that researchers think about them as zero-dimensional points that take up no space.

Electrons are probably the most familiar elementary particles, but the Standard Model of physics, which describes the interactions of particles and almost all forces, recognizes 10 total elementary particles......more

https://www.livescience.com/65427-fundamental-elementary-particles.html#

 

[paddoboy]

Write4U can speak for himself .

He has, and supports myself and billvon.

And I've made myself clear . The Physical , periodic table , is because of the elements themselves . Mathematics is a consequence of the Physical Objects .

And avoiding the issue at hand.

Explain then what form of oxygen gets into the water , That Fish can breath .

It's been explained to you a dozen times troll.
Atomic Oxygen does not exist in a free state. Got it?

 

[river]

↑

Explain then what form of oxygen gets into the water , That Fish can breath .

It's been explained to you a dozen times troll.
Atomic Oxygen does not exist in a free state. Got it?

Not yet .

Address , my above statement .

 

[river]

↑

Based on the Physical Properties of the Constituent Parts , which are Fundamentally , Physical . The Periodic Table is First a Physical based table of Real Physical Elements . It is not based on mathematics , at all , period .

The three fundamental non-physical elementals of the physical world, do in fact have relational values even tho they are technically not physical in essense.. The wave function is a non-physical guiding algorithm and has no physical existence in and of itself. Yet it governs the dynamics of physical motion.

Highlighted

It governs nothing.

Mathematics in any form governs nothing . Purely in and of itself .

 

[river]

The current mantra that "the neural network causes consciousness " is not nearly close enough for me.

It is for me . Naturally the Physical causes consciousness . Which leads to the mind .

 

[Write4U]

↑
Highlighted
It governs nothing.

Mathematics in any form governs nothing . Purely in and of itself .

The Mathematics of Causal Relations Judea Pearl

Introduction;

Almost two decades have passed since Paul Holland published his highly cited review paper on the Neyman-Rubin approach to causal inference [Holland, 1986]. Our understanding of causal inference has since increased severalfold, due primarily to advances in three areas:
1. Nonparametric structural equations
2. Graphical models
3. Symbiosis between counterfactual and graphical methods

These advances are central to the empirical sciences because the research questions that motivate most studies in the health, social, and behavioral sciences are not statistical but causal in nature. For example, what is the efficacy of a given drug in a given population? Can data prove an employer guilty of hiring discrimination? What fraction of past crimes could have been avoided by a given policy? What was the cause of death of a given individual in a specific incident?

Remarkably, although much of the conceptual framework and many of the algorithmic tools needed for tackling such problems are now well established, they are hardly known to researchers in the field who could put them into practical use. Why? Solving causal problems mathematically requires certain extensions in the standard mathematical language of statistics, and these extensions are not generally emphasized in the mainstream literature and education.

As a result, large segments of the statistical research community find it hard to appreciate and benefit from the many results that causal analysis has produced in the past two decades. This chapter aims at making these advances more accessible to the general research community by, first, contrasting causal analysis with standard statistical analysis and, second, comparing and unifying various approaches to causal analysis.......more

https://ftp.cs.ucla.edu/pub/stat_ser/r338-shrout.pdf

 

[river]

My post #1723 has yet to be addressed .

 

[river]

The Mathematics of Causal Relations Judea Pearl

Introduction; https://ftp.cs.ucla.edu/pub/stat_ser/r338-shrout.pdf

Still don't get your point , Write4U . Mathematics can't change a particle .

 

[Write4U]

It is for me . Naturally the Physical causes consciousness . Which leads to the mind .

Which leads to the sewer....??? Consciousness is not a physical object. It is an emergent subjective emotional cognitive experience.

So you are content with current interpretation? Mind (consciousness) is not quantifiable or qualifiable?
A mystery till the end of time? Just like quantum mechanics?

 

[river]

The electron collapses down to a tiny physical particle, all right. But, according to the in the Copenhagen Interpretation, there was never any physical electron wave. The waviness of the electron prior to detection was never physical in the sense that tables and chairs are physical. If there is a wavy electron, it’s no more physical than a mathematical expression.

If no wave , then what collapses into a particle ?

 

[river]

Which leads to the sewer....??? Consciousness is not a physical object. It is an emergent subjective emotional cognitive experience.

So you are content with current interpretation? Mind (consciousness) is not quantifiable or qualifiable?
A mystery till the end of time? Just like quantum mechanics?

Objective

Mind is the Evolution of Consciousness .

 

[Write4U]

Still don't get your point , Write4U . Mathematics can't change a particle .

They determine if a particle can change at all and by how much... mathematics control functions.

Function (mathematics)

A function is a process or a relation that associates each element x of a set X, the domain of the function, to a single element y of another set Y (possibly the same set), the codomain of the function. It is customarily denoted by letters such as {\displaystyle f}

, {\displaystyle g}

and {\displaystyle h}

.[1]

If the function is called f, this relation is denoted by y = f(x) (which reads "f of x"), where the element x is the argument or input of the function, and y is the value of the function, the output, or the image of x by f.[2] The symbol that is used for representing the input is the variable of the function (e.g., f is a function of the variable x).[3] [/quote]
domain and codomain
X→B,B→X,Bn→B
X→Z,Z→X
X→R,R→X,Rn→X
X→C,C→X,Cn→X
 Classes/properties 
Constant · Identity · Linear · Polynomial · Rational · Algebraic · Analytic ·
Smooth · Continuous · Measurable · Injective · Surjective · Bijective
  Constructions  
Restriction · Composition · λ · Inverse

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_(mathematics)#

  

 

[Write4U]

Objective

Mind is the Evolution of Consciousness .

Yeah and consciousness is an emergent orchestrated experiential phenomenon from computational processes of electro-chemical data by the neural network of the brain. The autonomous brain hallucinates its (your) relationship to reality in a manner consistent with the natural survival instinct.

 

[Write4U]

If no wave , then what collapses into a particle ?

Nothing collapses into particle, it's the wave function that collapses at some variable point when the wave meets an obstacle. The wave function collapses in some measurable configuration, but not the energy state of the particle itself which registers as the physical particle (value).

What is Wave Function?

In quantum physics, a wave function is a mathematical description of a quantum state of a particle as a function of momentum, time, position, and spin. The symbol used for a wave function is a Greek letter called psi, .

A lot of different values being processed here

By using a wave function, the probability of finding an electron within the matter-wave can be explained. This can be obtained by including an imaginary number that is squared to get a real number solution resulting in the position of an electron. The concept of wave function was introduced in the year 1925 with the help of the Schrodinger equation...... more

https://byjus.com/physics/wave-function/

 

[paddoboy]

My post #1723 has yet to be addressed .

You are a liar and a fraud...or just plain stupid. Your nonsense, all of it has been addressed by three people.

 

[DaveC426913]

My post #1723 has yet to be addressed .

What you are saying here is tantamount to

"You guys have not educated me enough. Please explain chemistry to me."

Because, if you are going to rely on us for facts about chemistry then it pretty much goes without saying that - when we tell you atmospheric oxygen is a molecule rather than an atom - you're gonna have to take our word for it.

 

[billvon]

If no wave , then what collapses into a particle ?

EM energy is both a wave and a particle. The only thing that "collapses" is your understanding of it.

 

[billvon]

My post #1723 has yet to be addressed .

I have answered you three times now. Atomic oxygen would kill you if you breathed it. It would kill fish if they were exposed to it. We breathe O2 which is an oxygen MOLECULE. Not atomic oxygen. Fish breath O2 which is an oxygen MOLECULE. Not atomic oxygen. They cannot use the "free atomic oxygen" in the water because 1) it does not exist and 2) it would kill them if it did. They cannot use the oxygen in H2O either. All they can use is the dissolved oxygen MOLECULES.

Do you get it yet? I can't use any smaller words.

 

[paddoboy]

I have answered you three times now. Atomic oxygen would kill you if you breathed it. It would kill fish if they were exposed to it. We breathe O2 which is an oxygen MOLECULE. Not atomic oxygen. Fish breath O2 which is an oxygen MOLECULE. Not atomic oxygen. They cannot use the "free atomic oxygen" in the water because 1) it does not exist and 2) it would kill them if it did. They cannot use the oxygen in H2O either. All they can use is the dissolved oxygen MOLECULES.

Do you get it yet? I can't use any smaller words.

Perhaps I'm too hard on him, but remember this is the same bloke that was unaware that the Moon rotated, and could not understand how it could rotate with us on Earth still only ever being able to see one side. And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Write4U]

Transferred from ; Corona Virus 2019-nCoV
Discussion in 'World Events' started by Quantum Quack, Jan 29, 2020.

Cool. Computers are officially alive.

Do you have to be alive to be consciously self-aware?

Are Machines Conscious?

Consciousness in machines is commonly understood to be the knowledge or situation of a fact. It seems the properties of consciousness are perhaps not biological. They are functional. The relationship between input, output and the state of the computer system (machine) is a causal relation to the state of a computer system (machine). It is this functionality, ability to know about one's inner workings and external surroundings that make machines functional, intelligent, aware and conscious.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cognitiveworld/2019/03/13/are-machines-conscious/#10d906e65b0e

But not a living biological organism.

p.s. human interoception does not apply to artificial limbs. Ironically, computer AI/AC interoception is able to monitor and regulate many human internal functions, such as a heart "monitor/pacemaker".

This is why the most recent proposed utility for AI is it's ability to "augment" human knowledge and "assist" in human decision making.