Iran's Nuclear Program May Have Military Dimensions

[iceaura]

The Mosques are run by the government. Speeches are routinely given that say this and worse. Again, try youtube. If you'r going to sit here and pretend like this isn't common rhetoric, that's you business.

Imagine the video montage that could be made of the anti-Iranian, anti-Muslim, and pro-military assault ravings from properly selected churches, synagogues, and public official reports from all across the US over the past thirty years.

Rhetoric that, unlike the Iranian versions, has been backed by military and active proxy assault, overt blockade and sanction, attempted demolition of the government and community and political integrity of its target.

 

[countezero]

Denial and delusion are your friends, Ice. Not mine.

 

[GeoffP]

Imagine the video montage that could be made of the anti-Iranian, anti-Muslim, and pro-military assault ravings from properly selected churches, synagogues

How's that again? Select some of these churches and synagogues.

Strawdog: Point taken. Simply put, any "Pariah" nation (on the US hit list) with nukes will not get invaded.

All right, but what makes them pariahs or not? Some of it might be fair and some unfair, of course.

 

[iceaura]

Imagine the video montage that could be made of the anti-Iranian, anti-Muslim, and pro-military assault ravings from properly selected churches, synagogues
”
How's that again? Select some of these churches and synagogues.

? Do you imagine the slightest difficulty in such a project?

The biggest churches, the best known pastors and politicians in the US, would be featured.

Offhand Google:

From the US Congressional Rep, re-elected and widely quoted, nationally popular politician who holds political rallies at my local churches: http://politicalblogs.startribune.com/bigquestionblog/?p=554

Or just follow the webtrail from the names in this account: http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?articleId=11541

Opening quotes:

On Purim, the Jewish holiday that celebrates the day Queen Esther saved the Jews from annihilation, Trinity Broadcasting Network's flagship talk show, Praise the Lord, featured an appearance by Rabbi Daniel Lapin. A politically conservative Orthodox rabbi, Lapin is best known for crusading with the Christian right against anti-religion bigotry and, more recently, for his close association with the convicted super-lobbyist Jack Abramoff. But he was not invited to a nationwide telecast to discuss such topics as the trumped-up war against religion or the better nature of his fallen friend. He had been asked to explain the significance of Purim to Christians, and particularly how the Old Testament's Book of Esther "serves as a roadmap to reality," which pinpoints where the next world "hot spot" will be.

That soon-to-be-flaming location is where the Book of Esther was set: namely Persia, or in modern parlance, Iran.

Seated beside Lapin in the ornately gilded Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN) studio was Pastor John Hagee, the author of an incendiary new book purporting to show that the Bible predicts a military confrontation with Iran. By then, Hagee's book, Jerusalem Countdown, had sold nearly 500,000 copies. It had occupied the No. 1 position on the Wal-Mart inspirational best-seller list, showed up on Wal-Mart's list of top 10 best sellers for seven weeks, and made the USA Today top 50 best-seller list for six weeks.

Hagee, who serves as head pastor of the 18,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio, Texas, hosts his own television program that is seen twice a day on TBN. He argues that the United States must join Israel in a pre-emptive military strike against Iran to fulfill God's plan for both Israel and the West. Shortly after the release of his book last January, he launched Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a lobbying organization intended, he says, to be a Christian version of the powerful American Israel Public Affairs Committee. With CUFI, which Hagee has said will cause a "political earthquake," the televangelist aims to put the political organizing muscle of the conservative evangelical movement behind his grand plan for a biblically prophesied end-time confrontation with Iran, which will lead to the Rapture, Tribulation, and Second Coming of Christ.

Pastor Hagee in 2006, that was. It was two years later - and apparently in agreement and welcoming support - that the powerful and internationally well-known Senator John McCain chose Hagee to join him on the podium in his quest for the Presidency.

Or consider: the Pentacostal Church is available as a legitimate choice for any Iranian wishing to illustrate the political views of American Christians.

 

[countezero]

Ice, you're attempting to compare totally non-related items.

The remarks made by people like Khomeni, for example, can in no way be compared to what you are attempting. And secondly, if you, like Straw, persist in this self-denial about what the Iranian regime says about America, then it's hardly worth my time, or anyone else's for that matter, to try to dissuade you from that bullshit. It's funny how certain people, like you, continually circle back to the US and Israel, and in doing so, refuse to speak on-topic.

 

[StrawDog]

All right, but what makes them pariahs or not? Some of it might be fair and some unfair, of course.

Fluctuating foreign policy would determine who is "Pariah of the day". IMHO it boils down to PNAC.

 

[StrawDog]

Ice, you're attempting to compare totally non-related items.

The remarks made by people like Khomeni, for example, can in no way be compared to what you are attempting. And secondly, if you, like Straw, persist in this self-denial about what the Iranian regime says about America, then it's hardly worth my time, or anyone else's for that matter, to try to dissuade you from that bullshit. It's funny how certain people, like you, continually circle back to the US and Israel, and in doing so, refuse to speak on-topic.

Have you found a recent Iranian government example yet?

 

[countezero]

I gave you one. You had a prominent Iranian official giving a press conference in front of a crowd chanting "death to America." Now, maybe they did not set up and encourage that crowd -- though, I think they did -- but they did not exactly stop it, did they? And thus, that's the message they wanted broadcast. Can you, for example, imagine Obama giving a conference in front of people chanting "bomb Iran."

 

[iceaura]

Now, maybe they did not set up and encourage that crowd -- though, I think they did -- but they did not exactly stop it, did they? And thus, that's the message they wanted broadcast. Can you, for example, imagine Obama giving a conference in front of people chanting "bomb Iran."

No, but I can imagine one of the most important and influential political figures in the US, a Presidential candidate with major Party support, at an important political gathering with a crowd screened and arranged to provide support and get in line behind policy,

singing, with the crowd singing along, on national TV,

"Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran - - - "

Now if there were some propaganda agency masquerading as a news service in Iran, and they wanted to put some agit stuff on the air, what do you suppose the Iranians would see on TV?

 

[StrawDog]

I gave you one. You had a prominent Iranian official giving a press conference in front of a crowd chanting "death to America." Now, maybe they did not set up and encourage that crowd -- though, I think they did -- but they did not exactly stop it, did they? And thus, that's the message they wanted broadcast.

That does not in any way imaginable, equate to the official saying "Death to America". And don`t bother looking, the Iranian gov has not recently stated such. :m:

Can you, for example, imagine Obama giving a conference in front of people chanting "bomb Iran."

The US public are too busy watching soaps to care. However, your government are happy to speak on their behalf.

Clinton says U.S. could "totally obliterate" Iran

(unprovoked)

 

[quadraphonics]

That does not in any way imaginable, equate to the official saying "Death to America". And don`t bother looking, the Iranian gov has not recently stated such. :m:

As everyone knows, that particular Two Minutes Hate works with the official cleric referring to the US as "The Great Satan," to which the pre-screened crowd responds by chanting "Death to America" at the coaching of an official sloganeer. It's been done this way every week for decades now, with one exception made - officially - for the week of Sept. 11 2001.

Likewise, a quick glance at the voluminous propaganda material produced by the regime - pamphlets, murals, approved rallies - should leave little doubt as to the official approval of the slogan in question.

But if that isn't good enough for you, here's a news report describing members of Iran's parliament chanting "Death to America" after a vote in 2006:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/24/AR2006122400158.html

 

[S.A.M.]

And? Chanting Death to Whatever or Whoever is very common in India too. Only we call it America Murdabad.

If Americans learned some more languages they would be surprised how many people say death to America in various languages.

When Georgie came to India, the demonstrators in Mumbai cried out

George Bush Murdabad, Galli galli mein shor hai, George Bush oil chor hai

Death to George Bush, The cry goes from street to street, Bush is an oil thief.

http://desicritics.org/2006/03/03/000050.php

 

[StrawDog]

As everyone knows, that particular Two Minutes Hate works with the official cleric referring to the US as "The Great Satan," to which the pre-screened crowd responds by chanting "Death to America" at the coaching of an official sloganeer. It's been done this way every week for decades now, with one exception made - officially - for the week of Sept. 11 2001.

An official referring to the USA as "The Great Satan" is in no way an explicit threat along the lines of "Death to America". Its more akin to Bush talking about the "Axis of Evil".

Likewise, a quick glance at the voluminous propaganda material produced by the regime - pamphlets, murals, approved rallies - should leave little doubt as to the official approval of the slogan in question.

Which slogan?

But if that isn't good enough for you, here's a news report describing members of Iran's parliament chanting "Death to America" after a vote in 2006:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/24/AR2006122400158.html

2006? We are entering 2010 in the spirit of Obama`s perestroika. Iran has absolutely toned down their language.

 

[quadraphonics]

An official referring to the USA as "The Great Satan" is in no way an explicit threat along the lines of "Death to America".

I'm not seeing the difference. Is Satan not to be resisted and (ultimately) defeated, in Shiite theology?

Its more akin to Bush talking about the "Axis of Evil".

Which was - correctly - interpretted as an explicit threat.

Which slogan?

"Marg bar Amrika"

2006? We are entering 2010 in the spirit of Obama`s perestroika. Iran has absolutely toned down their language.

The organized chants of "Marg bar Amrika" in response to "Shaytan-e Bozorg" remain a standard feature of state sermons and sanctioned rallies, as they have been for decades.

Moreover, Obama has toned down his language to a much greater degree, relative to the Bush Administration. Does that imply that the US does not pose any threat to Iran?

 

[StrawDog]

I'm not seeing the difference. Is Satan not to be resisted and (ultimately) defeated, in Shiite theology?

No. Once again, show me in straight talking language where Iran has recently threatened the USA with obliteration?

Which was - correctly - interpretted as an explicit threat.

No. Utterly incorrectly interpreted, but beside the point for now.

"Marg bar Amrika"
The organized chants of "Marg bar Amrika" in response to "Shaytan-e Bozorg" remain a standard feature of state sermons and sanctioned rallies, as they have been for decades.

Perhaps since US interference and support for Zionism et al, started hurting the Muslim folk eh? At least its understandable. :m:

Moreover, Obama has toned down his language to a much greater degree, relative to the Bush Administration. Does that imply that the US does not pose any threat to Iran?

No, Obama is clearly at least if not more, hell bent on war as Bush was, but I believe Iran are at least trying to believe and respond appropriately to his sentiments around new beginnings, dialogue, peace etc.

 

[fedr808]

No, Obama is clearly at least if not more, hell bent on war as Bush was, but I believe Iran are at least trying to believe and respond appropriately to his sentiments around new beginnings, dialogue, peace etc.

You gotta admit straw, Bush wouldve invaded Iran a long time ago if he were in Obama's position...

 

[StrawDog]

You gotta admit straw, Bush wouldve invaded Iran a long time ago if he were in Obama's position...

Hmm. I think you may be right there Fed.

 

[iceaura]

You gotta admit straw, Bush wouldve invaded Iran a long time ago if he were in Obama's position...

And we all have to recognize that chanting "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb America" would have a different sound to it if the bombers were armed and fueled and lined up on the tarmac of an airport just outside Toronto, and the guy chanting was the guy with the authority to send them on five minutes notice.

And they'd been running guerrillas into the country for years, funding and arming the McVeigh crowd and the Black Panthers meantimes, after having overthrown the US government and installed their own ally once already, not too long ago.

 

[StrawDog]

And we all have to recognize that chanting "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb America" would have a different sound to it if the bombers were armed and fueled and lined up on the tarmac of an airport just outside Toronto, and the guy chanting was the guy with the authority to send them on five minutes notice.

And they'd been running guerrillas into the country for years, funding and arming the McVeigh crowd and the Black Panthers meantimes, after having overthrown the US government and installed their own ally once already, not too long ago.

A realistic perspective, elegantly stated.

 

[GeoffP]

? Do you imagine the slightest difficulty in such a project?

Well, from the link I do. I thought we were talking about actual clergy raising such calls in service. This, I've never seen. I appreciate that the second guy is a Rabbi, of course.